Speedzilla Forums banner

21 - 40 of 206 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
735 Posts
H
FWIW: From reading Thorsten's web-site about the MOTEC system, which is who I mean about dealing with the MOTEC... According to his info. there, he makes it sound like most everything is dialed in!...>? IF I am wrong then I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that's the way it reads...
I haven't read his site, but there are too many variables to account for, and the best he can do is a ballpark map.

From the sounds of it, You got the BAZZAZ system already working? IF so, ofcourse that is Awesome!

Anyhow, I've got to get back to work but IF you have more info. on Your BAZZAZ set-up... dude I'd LOVE to Hear about it!:)
Not on an RC51, but I've dealt with them on various other bikes enough to know that it's superior to the PC3. When Bazzaz releases the ZFi for the RC51, I will be one of the first to buy it. Methinks it'll probably drop 'round the first of the year or late winter/ early spring.

Thanks for the info. LRO., You know me, I was not meaning to put out and CRAP info., and IF this is the case, I will Gladly erase my above reply. (^_-)
No worries, buddy... we're just having a discussion. :) What I say is based on my personal experiences (not what I read), and it will probably differ from others. I'm OK with that, and I'm not here to win debates or even make friends, really. I just want to share what I've found to work for me, and if it works for someone else, fckin' sweet. If not, then hey... my bike runs just fine, naw mean?

As for the difference between an auto tune and a tune done by a tuner... YES, a tune done by a tuner WILL make more HP... but not by much. This is fine if you're going for the last absolute HP for whatever reason, but $500 for an auto tune setup that will allow me to do it myself and compensate for ANY mods I could ever do (or even weather conditions/ elevation changes), vs. $350 (or whatever your local dyno expert charges) for a one time dyno tune session... well, the convienence far outweighs what little HP is left to be had. Furthermore, you can still find that HP if you know what you're doing, by going into the map yourself (remember when I said to bring a laptop in a back pack?) and fixing the areas that you see fit. The auto tune unit is basically a wide band O2 sensor that datalogs, so you can see everything a dyno tuner will see; the only difference is you'll probably have to break a few speed limits to log the data.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
735 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
And some guys love carbs. Whatever floats your boat. :)

Fi is really amazing in the fact you can force the fueling system to do things outside the scope of what normal atmospheric conditions would allow with a carb and of course the resolution you can get with the tuning of the system, but it is really really really hard to beat the feel of a well tuned bank of carbs at your wrist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,304 Posts
Mike, you would love tuning 2 stroke snowmobiles on the edge of 1500Deg. F exhaust temp at 0 deg. ambient running 280 mains the the thing rips :D
But if it gets to -10 outside and you don't re-jet with 290's BOOM goes the dynamite :eek: pistons melt at 1550 deg. on the pyrometers:cool:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
Mike, you would love tuning 2 stroke snowmobiles on the edge of 1500Deg. F exhaust temp at 0 deg. ambient running 280 mains the the thing rips :D
But if it gets to -10 outside and you don't re-jet with 290's BOOM goes the dynamite :eek: pistons melt at 1550 deg. on the pyrometers:cool:

No... No I wouldn't LOL

I learned my lesson about tuning too far to the lean side many many years ago. The horsepower is great right up to the point it holes the piston. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
735 Posts
Fi is really amazing in the fact you can force the fueling system to do things outside the scope of what normal atmospheric conditions would allow with a carb and of course the resolution you can get with the tuning of the system, but it is really really really hard to beat the feel of a well tuned bank of carbs at your wrist.
Quite right, and even though this is out of the scope of this thread, it's REALLY amazing as to what you can do with EFI on the three dimensional side of things when you involve forced induction. As for the carbs vs. EFI, I see it like this: The EFI will compensate for elevation and weather changes more consistently than even the best CV carbs, plus, I'd rather plug a lap top in and punch a couple keys than pull tanks and carbs to change jets, and that feel of a well tuned bank of carbs? It reminds me of what a well- sorted EFI system feels like.

But hey, to each their own. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
I've got almost 30 years of carb tuning under my belt and have been doing Fi tuning since 2000. The Fi tuning is easier, but the carb tuning is a lot more satisfying. Then again I am a purist I routinely lap much quicker than riders with slipper clutches and traction control when I use neither.

Technology is wonderful it aids those that are less experienced & skilled to make them appear more so. It masks their deficiencies and gives the illusion they are better than they are, but that is the way of the future. I mean all you have to do is look at the kids nowadays to see what we have become. It's ok to cheat on an online video game because no child can be left behind. They are entitled to win by any means necessary. Everyone gets a trophy even if they lose the ball game and we don't even keep score at T-ball games anymore to keep from hurting their self-esteem... It's just the same in the current world of sportbikes only it is the adults playing.
 

·
calculating status...
Joined
·
1,667 Posts
Hey, I've been tuning carbs and riding motorcycles for 25 years. Where's my trophy?:D

Mike, are you drinking Cognac again? I hear your analogy's, I just don't understand them. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
I sell & use both brands as far as I am concerned If all you want to do is alter the Fi dwell time and/or have custom tune made the Powercommander PCV is my preference for simplicity and support.

If you want Traction Control options then the Bazzaz is the clear winner by default.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,728 Posts
Bazzaz in my opinon is far better. A lot more options in every aspect. On my bike, the PCV doesn't even control secondary injectors. It will get the job done yes, but not as thoroughly as the Bazzaz will. Add in infinitely programmable traction control, quickshifting and what many think is superior autotuning, it's a hard to beat combination for the money. But my bike vs the RC (if that's what we're talking about) is apples to oranges. The RC can't take advantage of most of those features.
 

·
Sub-average Member
Joined
·
491 Posts
I sell & use both brands as far as I am concerned If all you want to do is alter the Fi dwell time and/or have custom tune made the Powercommander PCV is my preference for simplicity and support.

If you want Traction Control options then the Bazzaz is the clear winner by default.
What if you're only comparing Auto Tune, then which is superior, in your opinion?

Bazzaz in my opinon is far better. A lot more options in every aspect. On my bike, the PCV doesn't even control secondary injectors. It will get the job done yes, but not as thoroughly as the Bazzaz will. Add in infinitely programmable traction control, quickshifting and what many think is superior autotuning, it's a hard to beat combination for the money. But my bike vs the RC (if that's what we're talking about) is apples to oranges. The RC can't take advantage of most of those features.
Good to know. I currently have the PC3USB, and an auto tune is looking pretty good to me...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
What if you're only comparing Auto Tune, then which is superior, in your opinion?

It's not about being superior as they both get the job done, but I do personally prefer the user interface of the PCV Autotune to the Bazzaz Z-AFM. It's simply a matter of preference to the software side of things. To me the Dynojet GUI is easier to use. The parameters are all easily set in the software for engine run time temp etc or if you don't want to use any of that a simple 2 position switch lets you control the exact time, duration & conditions that you want to collect trim values. Reviewing those trim values is super easy and accepting them or rejecting them takes 2 clicks.
 

·
And Stateside again...
Joined
·
2,537 Posts
LDH in your opinion is the fact that the Bazzaz controls all 8 injectors(if so equipped) Vs the just 4 on the PC even a concern? does it really make that much difference?

Scenario.
Same exact bike, tune it at 8 am at 65 degrees with a PC-V tuning 4 injectors with a person tuning it not auto tune read HP/TQ figures. Then tune the same bike with the Bazzaz system(same temp same dyno, same bike)and read HP TQ will you see a noticeable increase in power between the too systems to say one is superior because it controls 8 injectors vs 4?

(does that question make sense)

I hear people say all the time that the Bazzaz is better because it controls 8 injectors vs 4 but is this true? given all else is equal and equal time is spent tuning can that be proven?

and now I know that Dynojet makes an add on for the PC-V to control all 8 as well. so will the Dynojet with this module make more or smoother power because it can control the other 4 injectors?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
I've done extensive testing with upper versus lower injectors and all in all it doesn't make a lot of difference. Are there some gains to be had? Yes under the right conditions, but with a stock engine & stock ECU the changes are nominal at best.

More to the point controlling all eight injectors is almost a moot point unless you have a really hopped up race engine that you cannot feed enough fuel to with just the lower injectors so you need control of the upper injectors to add more fuel as well, but at that point you are usually changing out fuel pumps, , injectors, fuel pressure regulators etc to get more fuel to the engine. These cases are pretty rare nowadays and with a stock motor unheard of as the lower injectors will give you all the fuel you need. If you are leaning out the AFR which we do on every bike we tune at some point in the rev range then it really makes no difference at all because if you need less fuel who cares where it is taken from? A little side note is that a lot of upper injector systems only work at the higher rpms anyway.
 

·
And Stateside again...
Joined
·
2,537 Posts
That was my thinking about it.

But when you see it on the forum or have people talk to you it's always: The Bazzaz is better because it controls all 8 injectors not just 4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,958 Posts
That was my thinking about it.

But when you see it on the forum or have people talk to you it's always: The Bazzaz is better because it controls all 8 injectors not just 4.

There are some perks to that like when installing a quickshifter and you need to cut the fuel to both the lower & upper injectors to take the load off the transmission during the interrupt, but again we are talking about common streetbike engines and I personally don't condone clutchless shifting on bikes that you want to keep for years to come at least not ones you want to be reliable... No matter how good you are at it with or without a quickshifter it is still putting metal on metal until that shift dog slips into place.
 
21 - 40 of 206 Posts
Top