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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #1
site is dead and im bored so im looking for more to talk about here.

did you ever get a before and after dyno tune performed to see actual gains, are you running a full system, etc... who did your porting, what stage porting did you have done, and how has reliability been?
 

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Several years ago I got involved tuning a bike for a guy racing a 2000 F4i at Loudon. The guy was very good but ran mid-pack. He got a SuperSport rebuild on his engine which included porting and the SuperSport cam set as well as a new set of rings and a competition valve job. The cam had stock lift, but the duration was 10º longer for both the intake and exhaust (5º before and 5º after the stock cam). The pistons remained at stock compression. The bike was running DOT tires in the CCS middleweight GTU class. A lot of his competitors were running slicks. He was riding a SuperSport spec bike in SuperBike spec class.

Before the work, the engine was putting out 101 hp on high end pump gas (CAM2). This was after 2 seasons of racing. After the work and before any tuning, we got 103hp. After touching up the power commander, we saw about 106 hp. That first year after the rebuild, he was running top 10 and, thru consistency, finished the year 5th overall. The next year we freshened up the head by re-lapping the valves and worked on the suspension. We also switched to U4 fuel and created a new map for the power commander. We saw a consistent 109 hp on the dyno. With some personal coaching, he finished the year 3rd in his class. The engine was not touched over that winter and the output remained the same for the next season. His riding skills got better, he was consistently top 5 and after 4 races, we re-mapped the bike to MR9 fuel. We were now getting 111-113 hp. He won the championship that year, more from consistency rather than wins.

The following year the new version of the R6 came out that had the higher rev range. Again, the engine was not touched over the winter and his competition was stronger. He didn't have the money to switch to slicks and continued to ride on Dunlop DOT spec tires. He still came in 3rd for the year.

So, back to your original question about back to back runs on an engine with porting alone. That did not quite happen here and it might be difficult to find that combination tested. Since the engine is being opened up, most owners will take the advantage to adding cams and/or pistons at the same time. However, in this case, the cams were a mild stage 1 upgrade. The extra hp gained at the top end also resulted in a bit of loss at the lower revs, but, on a 600cc track bike, you'd try to keep the revs over 7000 rpm anyway.

I realize that this example is not RC-51 specific, but the gains experienced should be proportionately about the same.

Another person to ask might be JD Hord. Since he ports heads and has a dyno, there's a good chance that he may have run a bike up at some time under those conditions. His website does have a nice selection of RC-51 specific dyno runs with bikes in various states of build and tune that might help you visualize things better.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #5
when i posted this i just got done reading hords site and all the dyno graphs. it does shed some light, but isnt exactly the info i was looking for. im sure i could email him and he would give me a quick answer and that would be the end of it, but i thought it would be a good topic for discussion on here as well.

as for the guy who's bike you worked on, was he running in the am, or ex class? my amature year i was running on a clapped out 95 f3 going against the latest and greatest gsxrs and r6's etc... (this is in 2002) the bike was stock but had suspension work done, but i never touched a dial (ignorance at the time) once i was smart enough to pre register i was consistantly in the top 3 the rest of the season running flat 18's (and i weighed about 210 at the time too). what kind of lap times was this person running as well, and out of curiosity, how much did his times improve with the extra hp?

truth be told, i dont see myself having any head work done on this bike unless i ran into a good bit of extra cash that i didnt need for anything else, or the bike really needed it. and if i sent the heads out id also look to get a good valve job, and maybe some higher compression pistons at the same time (id leave the stock cams alone). id likely sent them to hord if i needed this work.

doughnut, i read that thread and thats part of what made me post this one. thinking, is there a cheap way to get some porting done that i could find someone local to do it. self infliction had a 50$ job done and his bike makes in the mid 130's. so it peaked my curiousity. hord does this work for over $800. (there is the old adage, you get what you pay for). so i wanted to get some info on the topic.
 

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The guy I was referring to in my post was running EX, #57. His lap times got down to mid 16's with occasional 16.2 laps. Peter was extremely consistent. After Peter Cates (GMD Computrac - Boston) set up his suspension, he never touched his either, not even for wet events. His laptimes improved 1 to 1.5 sec., but I don't know if that could be attributed to the extra power, the coaching, or the additional experience. I would think it was a combination of the 3.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #7
that # sounds familiar. i was 629 my first two years, then changed to 96. by the middle of my second season i was running a basically stock (slipons) 02 gsxr6, suspension built by LE with basic geometry and i would run mid to low 16's on new tires9with a best of 16.1), by second weekend on same tires id be mid to low 17's and by my third weekend (same tires) id be back up to 18's... couldnt afford new tires every weekend like most, but at least i was out there racing for position and having fun every race. Pete is a good guy, he set up a bike for me many years ago and it was a great handling machine, and i picked his brain many times about setup over my years of racing up there.

but now we are getting way off topic so to get back on track (no pun intended) im still curious who has had porting work done on their heads and explain your experiences.
 

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The bike I just bought had Wiseco pistons, Cases ported to HRC specs, Falicon Supercrank, Cylinders coated by Millennium Technologies, Cylinder heads ported by Alex Fornelli. The gentlmen did give me two additional heads that have also been ported/polished but one needs some work (enginge blew) but can be repaired...:twocents
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #14
do me a favor guys and keep the thread focused. if you have a bone to pick with someone you should do it off line and not follow someone from thread to thread looking for a reason to start shit.
 

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Jest about what?

there are plently of others who have spent alot more time and know as much or more then D is all. most of them are long gone sadly and rarely if ever post so the forum now has a void.

I was just surprised you felt the way you did or maybe you have not been around the 51 for long, it is all good:rockon
 

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there are plently of others who have spent alot more time and know as much or more then D is all. most of them are long gone sadly and rarely if ever post so the forum now has a void.

I was just surprised you felt the way you did or maybe you have not been around the 51 for long, it is all good:rockon
Wow. "Plenty of others who have spent a lot more time and know as much or more... most of them are long gone.." Really? Seriously? And how would that help the OP? Oh wait, it doesn't.

He was looking for people with experience porting heads. Damon has done a ton of work, gone down the road he is going and has investigated most if not all of the engine options and mods when it comes to the RC. Oh wait- he actively races his RC at the club level. Hmmmm someone in the same shoes as the OP. I'm not saying Damon is a god, I'm saying he is a still-active member in this community who could shed major light on his question. My best friend races with him, speaks very highly of him, and when he says someone is a good dude (like he does Damon), I believe him, no questions asked.

(I've never really responded to your comments, but alas, I can no longer refrain)

And it's not all good. Your response is as usual, full of ignorance, assumption and completely baseless. Your first mistake is assuming I have no experience. Your second mistake is thinking I'm new to this world. I'd justify my internet cred, but that would require resurrecting the Motorush database, which can't happen, tracking down my old bikes, um, no, and oh yeah, I'm not 10 years old. The fact you are surprised by my response says nothing of my response itself. It says everything about you. Very credible members, racers and vendors alike (old and "new school"-fwiw) have voiced their opinions about you in the past. I've tried to take them all with a grain of salt and have refrained from passing judgment. But how does the saying go? Oh yes, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

There are those who think you are the king of carbon and your pipes are the greatest thing since beans and franks. I don't have an opinion of your carbon, your pipes, or your peddling of Chinese knock offs. But based on your internet prowess I think you're a hapless retard with no social skills and couldn't talk your way into a paper bag, let alone out of it. I don't even think you ride. You might own an RC, but it is probably kept in your garage for your "Development," "Engineering" and "QC." Undoubtedly you don't, can't, or hardly ever ride. Go back to concentrating your cannabis, lobbying congress for unemployment benefit extensions, or whatever it is you do. Based on what I've seen on this site alone, I can't believe a mod hasn't banned you. My suggestion was and is more than you've ever contributed. Take your vagina wagging carnival ride exhibition elsewhere (I apologize to the proper vagina equipped populous).


I apologize only to OP for this post (I had an A+ sales transaction with him) and I reiterate my previous post. Talk to Damon. I've read his threads. Independent of this forum, I've been told he's a good dude and has a wealth of knowledge at his disposal.

Carry on.
 

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But based on your internet prowess I think you're a hapless retard with no social skills and couldn't talk your way into a paper bag, let alone out of it.
Buwahahahahaaaaaaaa! That's fukn awesome! Another beatdown of our Village Idiot! This will surely piss off his boyfriends RVTMaverick, Zippy and JGos. :clapper
 

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Wow. "Plenty of others who have spent a lot more time and know as much or more... most of them are long gone.." Really? Seriously? And how would that help the OP? Oh wait, it doesn't.

He was looking for people with experience porting heads. Damon has done a ton of work, gone down the road he is going and has investigated most if not all of the engine options and mods when it comes to the RC. Oh wait- he actively races his RC at the club level. Hmmmm someone in the same shoes as the OP. I'm not saying Damon is a god, I'm saying he is a still-active member in this community who could shed major light on his question. My best friend races with him, speaks very highly of him, and when he says someone is a good dude (like he does Damon), I believe him, no questions asked.

(I've never really responded to your comments, but alas, I can no longer refrain)

And it's not all good. Your response is as usual, full of ignorance, assumption and completely baseless. Your first mistake is assuming I have no experience. Your second mistake is thinking I'm new to this world. I'd justify my internet cred, but that would require resurrecting the Motorush database, which can't happen, tracking down my old bikes, um, no, and oh yeah, I'm not 10 years old. The fact you are surprised by my response says nothing of my response itself. It says everything about you. Very credible members, racers and vendors alike (old and "new school"-fwiw) have voiced their opinions about you in the past. I've tried to take them all with a grain of salt and have refrained from passing judgment. But how does the saying go? Oh yes, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

There are those who think you are the king of carbon and your pipes are the greatest thing since beans and franks. I don't have an opinion of your carbon, your pipes, or your peddling of Chinese knock offs. But based on your internet prowess I think you're a hapless retard with no social skills and couldn't talk your way into a paper bag, let alone out of it. I don't even think you ride. You might own an RC, but it is probably kept in your garage for your "Development," "Engineering" and "QC." Undoubtedly you don't, can't, or hardly ever ride. Go back to concentrating your cannabis, lobbying congress for unemployment benefit extensions, or whatever it is you do. Based on what I've seen on this site alone, I can't believe a mod hasn't banned you. My suggestion was and is more than you've ever contributed. Take your vagina wagging carnival ride exhibition elsewhere (I apologize to the proper vagina equipped populous).


I apologize only to OP for this post (I had an A+ sales transaction with him) and I reiterate my previous post. Talk to Damon. I've read his threads. Independent of this forum, I've been told he's a good dude and has a wealth of knowledge at his disposal.

Carry on.
Thank you. I feel 100% the same way but for the sake of peace & quiet let it slide again and again. It's got to the point where I pretty much no longer post here.

To the OP: sorry also for going off topic. I have heads ported by JD Hord but as they came in a motor with Wiseco pistons and some other mods I can't give a back-to-back comparison. Yet to dyno the bike but will do so after NY. I left the porting entirely to JD, he ports the heads depending on what cams are being used - Mori Stage 1's in my case. If you'd like to know just what gains can be had with head porting alone then ask him, I'm sure has checked it out.

JB
 

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The RC I was riding (considerable mods but a stock motor) just before I picked up the "new" RC was/is quicker than the average 51.

Compared to the race bike with similar mods but a properly built motor and map....man!
It spins up and lays power down like nothing I've ridden before. I can't imagine a newer twin like the 1098 or RC8. Do it right and for yourself and its worth it all day long. Do it for max power and you'll be spending more time in the shop.

If I have time and get bored this winter, I will do a side to side dyno of two identically nodded bikes but one will have the modded motor I wrote about earlier and the other will be the stock unit.
 

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To the OP: sorry also for going off topic. I have heads ported by JD Hord but as they came in a motor with Wiseco pistons and some other mods I can't give a back-to-back comparison. Yet to dyno the bike but will do so after NY. I left the porting entirely to JD, he ports the heads depending on what cams are being used - Mori Stage 1's in my case. If you'd like to know just what gains can be had with head porting alone then ask him, I'm sure has checked it out.

JB
JD Hord has a wealth of knowledge on the twins, he has made a career out of them.
 
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