<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drsus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">look at the forks, that bike took a HUGE hit, any wheel would had been damaged beyons repair.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Great....another round of idiots with no reasoning abilities. The front is all bent up - therefore, it must have broken the rear wheel. Good job, Einstein.
Move along, folks, there's nothing to see here......move along.....
ok, another moron assumes too much....by looking at the forks I am assuming the bike as a WHOLE took a huge hit, the frame is bent, the forks are bent, the rear wheel is destroyed....the bike obvioulsly took a huge hit and hit very hard all over the place (tumbling, etc), not that by smashing the forks the rear wheel exploded because of it, as if by magic. Makes me wonder whether you are calling me a total f'ng idiot or you are for thinking ther are people that stupid here, I was hoiping your brain would be able to put together whats missing on my post.
BSTs are stronger than hell, they wouldn't go exploding like that from a mild hit, it would do it from one that would had done similar damge to any aftermarket wheel (Mags etc), maybe not explode, but they would fail in some way.
All I see is a picture of a trashed bike, I'm assuming all the damage happened from a crash that caused all that damage, IF the crash happened BECAUSE the wheel failed, THEN that's different, but NO ONE has come here and said that's what happened, for me to assume that would be out of the ordibary when you see a trashed bike.
I think Mark is just frustrated, that's all. He really doesn't mean any harm. We've all been looking at the bike for 6 weeks now and waiting for someone to pay attention. It hasn't happened, and we hate to see anyone go through the shit.
Jon Nichols from Nichols Manufacturing has spent somewhere around 70+ hours piecing the bits back togther again... and has a blow-by-blow model of the failure. He's spend more time looking at this crash than anyone. Unfortuanately, he's not being allowed to post for some reason (advertising?) and therefore is going to release his findings on another site.
We'll set up links to his findings in order to shed new light on the subject... then we can perhaps come up with a solution to Sam's problem... which is currently not having a bike. I could have been much worse... but by Martin's attitude at Motowheels, you'd never know it.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drsus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IF the crash happened BECAUSE the wheel failed, THEN that's different, but NO ONE has come here and said that's what happened...</TD></TR></TABLE>
Read the other thread, that's basically what almost certainly happened. Talk to Sam the rider, that's basically almost certainly what happened. Talk to Jon Nichols and have a look at the parts and ask him about what he's learned, that's basically almost certainly what happened.
Why do so many people think it's so amazing that a wheel would fail that they doubt all this and start making up their own theories, scoffing at the obvious, even insinuating the rider must have hit his head and his memory of having the back end drop and chuck him off must be faulty? I just don't understand.
I'm frustrated because we still have people who have never seen the broken bits now saying how the crash happened. Or making assumptions based on things that they've never looked at.
It's all in the 15 page thread in the Ducati Superbike section entitled "Lightweight Wheels".
In short, I think the wheel lost integrity as Sam was coming out of turn 7 on the gas.
The spokes delaminated from the wheel (one went to hell and once you lose 1, you lose them all), the rim kept the rear wave rotor from hitting the ground (there are 3 punctures in the CF rim that fit the wave rotor perfectly) as the now-unsupported swingarm dropped.
At that point, when the rim was no longer attached to the wheel hub,the tire rubbed against the swingarm, the vertical exhaust tubing, and the mufflers. And then it left the bike.
At that point, the bike was sliding along on the left side. There's no damage on the belleypan, wave rotor, rear axle, or the magnesium swingarm from abrasion with the asphalt.
IIRC, Jon Nichols' theory about the front end is that the bike slid along the ground - basically with the front tire turned and sliding across the normal axis of rotation. He saw a long skidmark that confirms this.
When the bike hit the dirt, nose first, the front wheel stuck. It had rained the day before - the ground was soft. And that's when the bike flipped.
The tailsection has damage on the top - with scrapes across from left-right (or right-left) and compression (from the top) damage to the tail section. There isn't asphalt grinding on the tail section - as there is on the left side fairing. The only abrasions to the top of the tailsection is brown and has imbedded dirt. The subframe is also bent closer to the swingarm - indicating that the bike came down on the tail section.
There is no damage on the extreme back end of the tail section - people keep saying that the bike "edo'd"....if it had done that, there would have been dirt all over the rear wave rotor, swingarm, and damage to the extreme end of the tail. The area where a tail light is, on streetbikes, is clean and undamaged. The exhausts had about 1" of mud packed into the pipes.
I sincerely doubt that the rear tire/rim were present when the dirt was pushed into the mufflers. If the tire had been there - the tail would have been damaged on the back angled surface. Some of the spokes had mud in them - indicating to me that when the mufflers touched the ground, the spokes were in contact with the ground.
The rim shows one hole where it appears that a spoke was punched through - but no marks on the inside of the tire. The rest of the former spoke locations, on the rim, look like the spoke was pulled away. There's also a break in the rim right where a spoke connects to the rim. This break goes from edge to edge, through the spoke connection location, and the rim - when pulled apart and allowed to slowly go together - doesn't want to go back together in the same place - it wants to go back together with an offset of approx 1" - 2 ". This is odd since there should not be any stresses like this with a CF component (as my limited knowledge of CF laminate construction tells me). Evidently, there are stresses in the rim. The edges of the rim are in perfectly fine condition - with no asphalt abrasions. The only damage to the edges of the rim are where the break is - at each side. Other than that - nothing.
The tire looks to be in perfect shape. I hate to say - but Sam's 998r is not a GSXR-1000 race bike with 200HP (especially now), and Sam is not Matt Mladin. He's fast - but not THAT fast. While the tire is one that is under recall from Dunlop for delaminating, this tire appears perfect (inside and out) and has been holding pressure on another rim, with the valve stem from the BST wheel, with no loss in pressure. There is no apparent damage to this tire - with, or without, pressure. Jon Nichols is running the same slick, same size, on his 996SPS and running basically the same pace as Sam. No problems with the tire. Jon might say that he's running a faster pace than Sam.....Sam might not agree.
The shop that put the wheels on the bike is the same, and only, shop that has put over 20 sets of tires on this bike. On these wheels. Same people, same equipment, same procedure. No 16 year old tire monkey did the work. There are two guys in the shop and they're both very good technicians. No trackside tire guy in a hurry. None of that. If they didn't know how to mount a tire on the rims, they would have screwed up before this.
This was Sam's second session of the day. The tires has already been scrubbed and warm in the first session without mishap. They were new prior to this track day. It was not the tires.
Now it's time, I'm sure, for the idiots to tell me that I'm full of crap. And then they'll tell me how it really happened - without actually having seen the bike or the accident itself. Drsus has now told me that the frame is bent......and I doubt he's seen the bike - much less measured the frame. And it's apparent that he hasn't read completely through the longer thread in the Superbike section. What's missing on his post is facts. He's full of supposition and assumptions without being burdened by facts. Tell me, Drsus, when you saw the pieces of the bike in person.
I can tell you that I've never seen a lower triple clamp broken. This one is - the thicker rear section on the right side is broken - pushed back.
People on this forum who have seen the bike - myself, Sam, Rob, Robert, and Jeff....that's about it. Jon Nichols has seen the bike - but he isn't allowed to come on and post (evidently).
Everyone else is posting their theories without benefit of actually being there or seeing the pieces of the bike. it's probably based on their having to defend the ownership of their BST's or their business interests in BST's.
I'd love to have a set of BST's - I still think they're the most beautiful piece of motorcycle jewelry. I love CF stuff.
Either there was a defect in this wheel, a defective process in making the wheel, the wheel isn't designed for normal track usage over a long period of time, or the wheel reached the end of its' usable life (in a rather spectacular fashion). I'm surprised at the lack of interest by BST and the US distributor.
I personally like the US distributor and have known them for a long time. But I'm disappointed that they still haven't seen the bike in person and have passed on a lot of mis-information regarding the bike and the accident. The US distributor is about 90 minutes away from the shop where the bike pieces are located.
How's that, Giannis? A short compilation of the 15 page thread in the Superbike section.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 900CR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... then we can perhaps come up with a solution to Sam's problem... which is currently not having a bike. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Buckelew »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jon Nichols is running the same slick, same size, on his 996SPS and running basically the same pace as Sam. No problems with the tire. Jon might say that he's running a faster pace than Sam.....Sam might not agree
since jon isn't allowed to post on this site and can't defend himself, then i'm going to state factually that i'm way faster than jon!
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