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Discussion Starter #1
For years I would mostly do street riding.
The years went on, the bikes replaced over the years, each time they were faster, sportier and more captivating.

The chassis became stiffer, the brakes stronger the tires became better and better.

Yet, as the years went on, the risk requiered to reach the same previous levels of Dopamin/spiritual sublimity increased.

While bikes improved the human being did not, yet the bikes were able to cover up more and more of its deficits.

In other words, even if you aren't that talented you can go much faster than what a more talented person could just a few years ago.
However theimprovment was limmited to the improvment of the bike.


However (and sorry for that lengthy prelude), TC changes all that more abruptly than other developments, as it obsoletes significant techniques like throttle control - speed will increase and the fatality of bike accidents will risen sharply.
Further more, the rider does not receive the same indication of unease of the bike itself due to the screen put by TC.

Thus the question I put to you:
Does TC can be considered a safty mechanism for street riders, or will it only increase the enthusiastic rider speed on the road, making him crash harder, faster and with a higher fatality rate.
 

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I disagree that it makes slower riders faster.

You could give me Bayliss' bike with Factory traction control and Matt Carr (Sideways) from this forum would still whoop me with an SV650S.

Or you could give LDH a doo-doo brown ZX-7R and he'd do just as much damage even if I had the new S1000RR

I think that the statistics won't show an increase in fatality. In fact it might even lower them because rookies won't be crashing when whacking the throttle open or locking the brakes like in times past.

What will eventually happen though is that the caliber of rider will be dumbed down from the caliber of riders that came up through the 90s. Case in point, the average squid of the 90s could probably ride circles around the average squid of today. The bikes were that much harder to ride. They didn't even have steering dampers back then.

Traction control is good for street bikes in my opinion. They make racing safer but at the price of entertainment. No more Gary Mccoy slides. Those days are gone.

Think about World Superbike. When was the last time you saw someone kick out the back end of a motorcycle in WSBK. I honestly can't remember. They used to call Haga the King of Slide and I have yet to see him slide the rear since he last rode the R7.
 

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I don't believe that 98% of riders will be any faster on the street. It's not as if though they are currently riding their bikes at ANYTHING close the the traction edge, by feathering the throttle, or being right on the edge of the traction limit (without TC).

I think that TC helps reduce (not eliminate) the incidence of highsides. But I think the REASON for the highsides is due to (on the street):

1. oil or slippery patch on the road
2. sand/gravel/grass, etc on the road
3. ham-fisted and inexperienced application of the throttle after the apex

In all of THOSE situations, a good TC will help reduce the chance of highside.

The track may be different...because more riders may get closer to the edge of traction limits without TC, in the consistent track surface, and thus any rider aide with respect to reducing rear tire slip to the point of highside, may cause an increase in overall speed. But whether that in itself will cause an increase in crashes, is probably debatable. Perhaps it may cause more impact when a crash does occur due to higher speed, but not affect the frequency of the crashes significantly.
 

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Think about World Superbike. When was the last time you saw someone kick out the back end of a motorcycle in WSBK. I honestly can't remember. They used to call Haga the King of Slide and I have yet to see him slide the rear since he last rode the R7.
When he was on a customer Ducati, last corner, Valencia - sick slides...

but yes, you have a point.

I wonder if you could get traction control to work so well that it could ruin the spectacle of dirt track like it has road racing? Seriously - what if it was possible to traction control a mile bike well enough to actually make it faster with the wheels in line? What a tragedy that would be!

Oh well - the march of technology can't take the simple pleasure of do-nuts and feet up powerslides on my play bike away from me. <I hope>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't believe that 98% of riders will be any faster on the street. It's not as if though they are currently riding their bikes at ANYTHING close the the traction edge, by feathering the throttle, or being right on the edge of the traction limit (without TC).
I think that TC helps reduce (not eliminate) the incidence of highsides. But I think the REASON for the highsides is due to (on the street):

1. oil or slippery patch on the road
2. sand/gravel/grass, etc on the road
3. ham-fisted and inexperienced application of the throttle after the apex

In all of THOSE situations, a good TC will help reduce the chance of highside.

The track may be different..
Let's leave the track aside for a minute.

I do agree with your statement, and usually I say that less than 80% of the street riders can muster more than 60% of their bike capability.


However, let’s take another electronic system ABS - it was proved experimentaly that an inexperienced rider could and actually did brake harder knowing his bike is ABS equipped.

This suggests that a significant part of our riding capability (on the street) is derived from our perception of the bike limitation.
Would you agree to this last statement?
 

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I have traction control on my BMW. It has kicked in a couple of time, both times because of gravel on the road. I won't argue against its usefulness. I cover a lot of road each year and every little thing that helps is more than welcome.
You may also argue against tyre technology with this logic: in the past ten years it has progressed immensely and only accelerated in the past four years. Modern touring tyres grip better than past sports tyres and do so in all conditions. It's called progress.
 
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