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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First track day since my accident. Planned to just watch but within an hour I was back out there @ California Speedway AMA Course. Better if Fasttrack Riders had just two groups instead of three. That way the advanced group has fewer yahoos, like the one that took me out in June. MTC @ Willow Springs had two groups and I liked it much better.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Track Days: Two Groups Vs Three (socal)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by socal »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First track day since my accident. Planned to just watch but within an hour I was back out there @ California Speedway AMA Course. Better if Fasttrack Riders had just two groups instead of three. That way the advanced group has fewer yahoos, like the one that took me out in June. MTC @ Willow Springs had two groups and I liked it much better. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, we are all happy that you are now "back in service". Now, get those lap times down, ya hear?

I am not clear what difference it would make to have two groups instead of three...think it would be worse...now you would divide the riding world into novice and almost-a-pro.....real life don't work like that. Every track and group that puts on track days does the three group thing for a BIG reason. Yeah, I see big gaps in Intermediate (where I ride cuz I ain't as fast as most guys on this board) and am frustrated that guys I know well and are dear friends ride in Intermediate cuz they have been riding for twenty years....but they wouldn't know a race line if you spray painted it on the track and are pathetically slow, have never moved their asses off the seat in their lives and create a real danger cuz they have such nonsensical lines (got a lesson when I passed one of my best friends who was in la-la land and he turned into me, his front wheel hitting the back of my boot and can, I stood it up and rode off the track, okay, he went down and ended up in the hospital). But you need that middle group and have to just accept that you are going to have to be extra alert and that, yeah, what we do carries dangers (13 months now with a broken ankle that won't heal and never will....my Aircast is nasty looking but all I've got). Three groups works.

Keep on a healin', bud.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Track Days: Two Groups Vs Three (roadkill)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by roadkill »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, we are all happy that you are now "back in service". Now, get those lap times down, ya hear?

I am not clear what difference it would make to have two groups instead of three...think it would be worse...now you would divide the riding world into novice and almost-a-pro.....real life don't work like that. Every track and group that puts on track days does the three group thing for a BIG reason. Yeah, I see big gaps in Intermediate (where I ride cuz I ain't as fast as most guys on this board) and am frustrated that guys I know well and are dear friends ride in Intermediate cuz they have been riding for twenty years....but they wouldn't know a race line if you spray painted it on the track and are pathetically slow, have never moved their asses off the seat in their lives and create a real danger cuz they have such nonsensical lines (got a lesson when I passed one of my best friends who was in la-la land and he turned into me, his front wheel hitting the back of my boot and can, I stood it up and rode off the track, okay, he went down and ended up in the hospital). But you need that middle group and have to just accept that you are going to have to be extra alert and that, yeah, what we do carries dangers (13 months now with a broken ankle that won't heal and never will....my Aircast is nasty looking but all I've got). Three groups works.

Keep on a healin', bud.</TD></TR></TABLE>

First, wishing you a full recovery.

Second, I am a intermediate level rider. And, I find that the advanced group -of a two group track day -has all of the most experienced riders and is limited to just some yahoos. The intermediate group in a three tier track day, in my experience, has alot of yahoos and fewer advanced riders. Most accidents, according to Fasttrack Riders, occur in the level two/intermediate group. I, therefore, prefer to ride in the advanced group of a two tier track day.


Modified by socal at 8:07 PM 8/22/2005
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Track Days: Two Groups Vs Three (socal)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by socal »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First, wishing you a full recovery.

Second, I am a intermediate level rider. The advanced group -of a two group track day has all of the most experienced riders + some yahoos. The intermediate group in a three tier track day, in my experience, has alot of yahoos and fewer advanced riders. Most accidents, according to Fasttrack Riders, occur in the level two/intermediate group. I, therefore, prefer to ride in the advanced group of a two tier track day. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You are very right in most respects....guys almost good enough to move up to advanced out there dodgin' dorks that should be charged double to get on a track and who should be gently encouraged to take up canoeing or something. Real frustrating to be in a nice groove and come up on someone who is just plain scary to pass cuz you don't know where he is going to be wandering when you make your move.....

Now that you have let us know your pet peeve.....listen to mine.....I want it to be a capital offense, shot on sight, no trial, no jury, no judge for there to be "group rides".....four, five good buddies who ride nose to tail off pace.....ya know, just riding around totally oblivious to the whole world....so you come screaming up on a funeral procession....you can pass one bike easy but how do you pass a nose-to-tail pack with no real gaps to fit in?
Rat bastards should be executed publically to serve as an example. I have just learned to treat them with the same respect they display....pick a microdot of space between the last two bikes and let the last guy get bent out of shape for cutting off his security blanket, then repeat as often as required until the funeral procession clogs up the next rider.....real mad at myself for letting these sisterkissers ruin more than one session until I just decided that my money is the same as theirs and my money wants to turn '29s at Jennings. If you have a problem with it, my ez-up is easy to find.....just look for a passel of R6's with ratty bodywork and bad attitudes.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Track Days: Two Groups Vs Three (roadkill)

sisterkissers
some may discount your rant... but I have seen these BWAAAAAAAHAAAA ahem, 'funeral processions'
dude, that was a truly funny rant


B
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: ([email protected])

What day were you there? I was riding level 3 on Saturday and had a really good time. My friend rode intermediate and it was scary as usual (the first 4 or sessions ended early from red flags) but, from my experience, those yahoos exist no matter how many groups you run. The difference with MTC is that the squids don't go to them like they do Fastrack. I felt that FT did a better job than last time stressing and enforcing the rules and was actually pretty happy with them. Level 3 had a few crashes that produced waving yellows, and I had a near-highside myself, but it was otherwise great. What times are you running? If you're below 2:00 (there were some guys slower than that in lvl 3), aren't erratic and are comfortable with tight passing, then move on up to 3. My friend is still hanging around the 2:05-2:10 range so he still has to ride with the choads.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I rode level 2 (Intermediate) all day. I have rode the track maybe 6 times and have gotten my times in the mid 1:40 range. I am a stickler at only going up a level until Im completely satisified with my progression, but not everyone follows that mentality and you end up having every joe-schmo-I've done 2 track days in your group. I dont want to be that guy and attempt a race level, but maybe its time to up a level... Its better than having every hot lap ruined, and I am really starting to believe its more dangerous in the middle group.

In regards to the post title.. 2 groups is more dangerous I think.. You dont have that buffer level to keep the 2 track day motogp wannabes out of your group..
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: ([email protected])

Two group trackdays.... Typically, Advanced-group and Intermediate group only, no beginners. Not anymore or any less dangerous than any other trackday... but beginning track-riders (C-group) should stay home.

SoCal, if your times put you in the intermediate group, or Group 2, stay there. No one likes 30MPH+ closing speeds on self-bumping riders in the Advanced group. If your times are on the cusp, stay in intermediate.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: ([email protected])

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I rode level 2 (Intermediate) all day. I have rode the track maybe 6 times and have gotten my times in the mid 1:40 range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I run mid-1:40's myself and, while I get passed plenty of times (mostly on the straights -- sometimes I really miss having a liter bike) I definitely find myself getting around others as well. Bump yourself up to Level 3 next time. I think you'll find yourself a lot more comfortable and likely to improve your times even more.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: (Mashuri)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mashuri »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I run mid-1:40's myself and, while I get passed plenty of times (mostly on the straights -- sometimes I really miss having a liter bike) I definitely find myself getting around others as well. Bump yourself up to Level 3 next time. I think you'll find yourself a lot more comfortable and likely to improve your times even more.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think I will.. I feel comfortable getting passed, and doing the passing, inside and outside. I am hoping that with a quicker group and more consistent hotlaps, I may be able to get my times into the low 40's to high 30's which would be SWEET!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: ([email protected])

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I think I will.. I feel comfortable getting passed, and doing the passing, inside and outside. I am hoping that with a quicker group and more consistent hotlaps, I may be able to get my times into the low 40's to high 30's which would be SWEET!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like you're ready! Just keep in mind that the advanced group doesn't adhere to the 6' passing rule very much. It can get tight but, because of the more skilled riding, it's not bad. Man, if I could get my TZ in the 130's that would be AMA level (except Oliver -- that guy lapped in the 120's!) Wave to me as you blow by on the banking.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I took my Aprilia 250 out there once.. Now that was fun! Dominating the infield, but as soon as I hit the front straight all the work ive done is gone in like 10 seconds... haha.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: ([email protected])

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Socal, what kind of times were you running in level 3?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mid 1:50s and I was black flagged out of level 3.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: (socal)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by socal »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Mid 1:50s and I was black flagged out of level 3. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How did that feel?
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Re: (socal)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by socal »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Mid 1:50s and I was black flagged out of level 3. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's weird. There were definitely some mid/high-1:50's riders out there on Saturday but they weren't flagged. Did someone complain or were you flagged simply because of your lap times?
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: (900CR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 900CR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How did that feel?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not a surprising post fr you.
But I disagree with you when you state that there is no difference between the safety of a two tier system and a three tier system. Assuming that intermediate/level 2 riders represent a disproportionately larger percentage of crashes, aka yahoos. In a three tier system a level two rider rides with 100 percent yahoos. In a two tier system a level two rider can ride in the advanced group where there are always less than 100 percent yahoos. Wish I could post Ven diagrams!


Modified by socal at 6:57 PM 8/23/2005
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: (Mashuri)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mashuri »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's weird. There were definitely some mid/high-1:50's riders out there on Saturday but they weren't flagged. Did someone complain or were you flagged simply because of your lap times?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No complaints. I was told that the corner worker simply felt that I was not fast enough for level three. Maybe they were riding really fast that day.
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: ([email protected])

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by [email protected] »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SOcal- Next time, we will have to meet up.. I Havnt run into anyone from Speedzilla yet. I posted a Roll call, but didnt get any replies prior to the Weekend, at least last I checked. OK, I remember.... I posted on the RC board
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Here is some onboard footage from Fontana just to hold you over.. Its not me! I wish I was this fast!
http://sportbikerush.net/vids/GobertFontanaLap.wmv
http://sportbikerush.net/vids/lap_fontana.wmv</TD></TR></TABLE>

How about September 23rd @ Fontana? Videos are great! Those guys are simply unbelievably fast!!


Modified by socal at 7:23 AM 8/24/2005
 
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