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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading about what happened to Socal during his track day, I had a couple of quesitons for you guys that go to these events. How do track day organizers control/prevent situations like the one that happened to Socal (where he got hit on a cool down lap)? I read Hubert's post in Socal's thread about how the intermediate group that he was in seemed very "uncontrolled." I've read some descriptions of track day organizers where they look for "bad behavior" out on the track and they flag the rider to come into the pits to have a "talk." Is this common?

I'm in Southern Cal and before I sign up for a track day, I wanted to get people's opinion.

Thanks!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (Shoie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shoie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">After reading about what happened to Socal during his track day, I had a couple of quesitons for you guys that go to these events. How do track day organizers control/prevent situations like the one that happened to Socal (where he got hit on a cool down lap)? I read Hubert's post in Socal's thread about how the intermediate group that he was in seemed very "uncontrolled." I've read some descriptions of track day organizers where they look for "bad behavior" out on the track and they flag the rider to come into the pits to have a "talk." Is this common?

I'm in Southern Cal and before I sign up for a track day, I wanted to get people's opinion.

Thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>

The group I was in, wasn't entirely out of control but there were a few people in that group that created dangerous situations because they were riding not only above their skill level but with a blatent disregard of the rules; it was "their track day, and to hell with everyone else" sort of mentality.

There was one specfic incident that involved my friend getting divebombed on the inside of turn and nearly having his front wheel taken out by some guy that just HAD to get around him right there. My friend got it on video, showed it to the organizers, who spoke with the offending party. In the end, they moved the offending rider to the next higher group w/ more open passing. I gues that's a way of solving the immediate issue but it doesn't do much to curtail that sort of behavior.

There are instructors that go out w/in the sessions to keep an eye on things but there are usually 20-30 bikes and 4-5 instructors so they obviously can't see everything.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (Shoie)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shoie »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is this common?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No... this is definitely not common and the likelyhood of this realistically happening to any rider is slim to none. In the five years that we have organizing track days, something like this might have occured once... but the result was not nearly as serious (ie, SoCal's hospital stay/injuries).

There is only so much the organizer can to do to "police" the riders. From our perspective, serious emphasis is put on safety from every angle. Everything from the website copy to the Rider's Meeting the day of the event touches on safety. The bottom line is that you are still at a race track with a lot of different people who have various ideas on what is acceptable riding/behavior. Sometimes we have an event that only has one or two minor incidents. Other times, we seem to have more... or a certain Group tends to be more "rowdy".

In reality, I think you should go and have a great time because, for the most part, if an organization has been holding events for a while and is recognized locally with a good reputation, then you should attend.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (hubert)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hubert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My friend got it on video, showed it to the organizers, who spoke with the offending party. In the end, they moved the offending rider to the next higher group w/ more open passing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats pretty dumb. What orgonization is it?

Being promoted to a higher group should requires not only skill, but also control, consistency and ability to follow the rules and not endager people around you. Trackdays are not a race.

With more freedom and lax passing rules comes greater responsibility.

If this would have happened at Nesba event, the rider would be siting a few sessions out or sent packing home.

By bumping up the offending rider into Advanced group, they almost encourage that kind of behaviour.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (jbraslins)

That is a little odd.

The issue is not about speed, but about track exiting procedure and making sure the rider understands them.

Maybe the rider simply *screwed up*, but was indeed a faster paced guy?? I'm not saying that makes what happened ok, but...
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (jbraslins)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jbraslins »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thats pretty dumb. What orgonization is it?

Being promoted to a higher group should requires not only skill, but also control, consistency and ability to follow the rules and not endager people around you. Trackdays are not a race.

With more freedom and lax passing rules comes greater responsibility.

If this would have happened at Nesba event, the rider would be siting a few sessions out or sent packing home.

By bumping up the offending rider into Advanced group, they almost encourage that kind of behaviour.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was confused as well. I would have imagined they *should* have had him sit out a session and not "promote" him.

I also understand the position the organizers are in, having to cater to their customers, but I felt giving him a bump was not what should have taken place.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (Tripod-R)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tripod-R »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is a little odd.

The issue is not about speed, but about track exiting procedure and making sure the rider understands them.

Maybe the rider simply *screwed up*, but was indeed a faster paced guy?? I'm not saying that makes what happened ok, but...</TD></TR></TABLE>

He was not. I got around him a couple of times and was behind him a few times; the guy would ride over his head to get around you, then be out of shape for the next few corners because he'd banzaied his way around.
He was a guy that was riding fast but the way he was riding was going to end in tears and when asked about the incident that had him on video, he still blamed my buddy for "not knowing how to ride." I guess he expected him to have eyes on the back of his head.
I didn't really have a problem with him because I either got away from him early or just stayed behind, taking breaks in the hot pit lane to give myself room.
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (hubert)

I posted this on 2 other boards and the response was very positive... it started out as a rant but I formalized it into a list....

Track Day Thoughts for Intermediate-Level Riders:

1. Don’t ride a bike you are unwilling to have damaged:
a. If you can’t afford to walk away from it, don’t put it on the track
b. If you make payments on it, you can’t afford it
c. If it is a street bike and you have insurance (and you should), make it full coverage – most policies cover ‘non-race’ track day events (obviously you should verify this with your carrier)
2. Your current bike is most likely far more than you can safely handle
3. A used, track prepped, mid-sized bike (like an SV 650) is a great track machine that will actually allow you improve faster than something that is too powerful for you
4. Prepare for damage – frame sliders, bar-end sliders, fork sliders, a few stickers
5. The Intermediate Group is the most dangerous. The range of skills is wide and most people, although fine with a stable environment, have problems dealing with unexpected situations that will and do occur
6. Expect the unexpected. Don’t assume that because you have been following a slower rider for several turns that they will hold their line when they get passed
7. Street vs. track experience really are NOT as interchangeable as you would expect
8. Buy the more track-oriented tires
9. Expect to buy tires – often
10. Buying a different bike every 2 or 3 years never allows you to really get to know it and you will not improve as quickly as if you stuck with the same bike for a longer period of time
11. Buy used track plastic; it is cheap, readily available & you have little emotional attachment to it
12. Keep spares handy:
a. Brake/clutch levers
b. Foot pegs
c. Clip-on bars
d. Helmet
e. Face shield
f. Gloves
13. Other people are actually not so fast – you are just really slow
a. Don’t rely on engine displacement to make you faster, you could actually end up with slower overall lap times and be more likely to crash
14. Know what you want to accomplish during each track session - plan your ride and ride your plan
a. Simply going fast is not a plan
b. Looking to pass people is not a plan
c. Looking to not get passed is not a plan
15. If your goal is to simply get your knee down, you will most likely be a danger to yourself and those around you – focus on track riding fundamentals. If you really want to look the part – buy used knee sliders
16. You, or those around you WILL over-react with the following:
a. Chopping the throttle off
b. Snapping the throttle on
c. Death-grip braking
d. Rushing the end of the straights
17. Judging proper corner speed takes time, practice and patience – you are most likely not carrying enough corner speed
18. Conditions where you should drop down into the slower group (if even for just the day or part of the day):
a. The bike is unfamiliar to you
b. The displacement is unfamiliar to you
c. The engine configuration is unfamiliar to you (switching between an I4 and a V-Twin is a HUGH change)
d. You have made significant performance/suspension modifications
e. You don’t feel well or are not 100% there physically, mentally or emotionally
19. Conditions where you should move up into the faster group:
a. More than one of the Control Riders tells you to move up to the faster group
b. If you believe you need to ASK to be moved up, you are not ready
20. Talk to more experienced riders about the overall track layout, riding lines, gear selection and anything else you can think of
Bring plenty of water, food, shade, gas, maintenance supplies, etc
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (hank)

Very well put, Hank. Thanks.

Just one minor point of difference though. At the track days I have been to, I have seen more serious carnage in Advanced than Intermediate (where I ride). Seems that when the Advanced guys go down, they go down in a big way.....the fastest guy I know laid his R1 down at Jennings and they brought it back in more pieces than you can count......nothing was not bent or broken......his leathers were just shredded but he was semi-okay. There are lots of yellows in Intermediate, lots of reds in Advanced.

Any old way.....you are just there to have fun....there are no trophies in track day and no prize money.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (roadkill)

Wasn't there an incedent just a week ago where the same thing happened at a Automotive trackday? Two guys were kiilled in a Porche Carrara GT when another car exited the track inappropriately. The driver of the GT swerved to avoid them and hit a concrete wall.


Sounds like a Fontucky issue...


http://www.latimes.com/news/lo...=true

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Two San Diego County men died when the Porsche they were racing crashed and caught fire Thursday morning at California Speedway in Fontana, authorities said.

Benjamin Miles Keaton, 39, and his passenger, Corey Nicholas Rudl, 34, both of La Jolla, died from injuries after Keaton lost control of a 2005 Porsche Carrera GT.

The car left the track, careened onto a grassy area and struck a barrier. The engine compartment then caught fire, according to a San Bernardino County sheriff's report.

On-site medical personnel, the same used for NASCAR and Indy Racing League events at the speedway, responded at 10:40 a.m. and quickly extinguished the fire, sheriff's officials said.

Rudl, who worked in Internet marketing, was pronounced dead at the scene; Keaton was airlifted to Loma Linda University Hospital, where he died about an hour later, according to the San Bernardino County Coroner's Office.

Both suffered multiple traumatic injuries, but neither suffered burns, said Supervising Deputy Coroner Randy Emon. The vehicle made a passenger-side impact at more than 100 mph. Both men were wearing helmets and safety belts, authorities said.

"The driver's side was in good shape, but the passenger side was obliterated," Emon said.

The accident occurred while the track was being rented by the San Diego chapter of the Ferrari Owners Club. Such events are common at the speedway; the facility is in use nearly 300 days a year for a variety of events, including track days by auto clubs and driving schools.

The men are the fourth and fifth fatalities at California Speedway since it opened in 1997.

Champ Car driver Greg Moore was killed during a race in 1999, and Ricky Lundgren died during competition at an AMA Superbike event in 2003. Another motorcyclist died during a track rental in September.


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (900CR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 900CR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wasn't there an incedent just a week ago where the same thing happened at a Automotive trackday? Two guys were kiilled in a Porche Carrara GT when another car exited the track inappropriately. The driver of the GT swerved to avoid them and hit a concrete wall.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They were running the infield only at that event - different layout to the AMA layout that's run at bike track days.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (hubert)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hubert »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

They were running the infield only at that event - different layout to the AMA layout that's run at bike track days.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks! I don't think I wanna run that track though... bad JuJu.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: Track Day Quesiton (900CR)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 900CR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks! I don't think I wanna run that track though... bad JuJu.
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I've run there twice now and have mixed feelings.
 
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