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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
ive been looking for an airbox for my sp2, and i realize the weight reduction is a part of the value to this mod, but what are the real gains made from the increased volume of air?

what i basically mean is most of the guys who install these airboxes gain about 4-7hp when they get it tuned, but how much of that gain is just from the custom tune itself. i havent seen one dyno sheet that shows a bike with the basic mods and custom dyno tune compared to simply installing the aftermarket airbox of choice and getting a re-tune. i had my bike custom tuned with akra slipons, k&n's, paired, deflapped, soft rev along with pcIII usb and gained 4rwhp and 2ft.lbs.

the next part of this question is how much does the stock airbox weigh without the rubber insulators on the outside? and how much do any of these aftermarket boxes weigh? so exactly what is your weight reduction with this mod?

and i know honda didnt waste their r&d money on developing this airbox to not be efficient, but would it be safe to assume that part of the design of this airbox were to meet epa standards of noise, etc... (much like the flapper). and if the idea is to increase volume, and reduce restriction of airflow couldnt you just cut out the front of the airbox and install a small screen and filter like all of these other airboxes and still make some gains? there would be some minimal weight loss, and minimal volume increase, and im sure a fair bit of airflow improvement.

so has anyone done a before and after dyno with just modifying the stock airbox in this manner? it seems the mori and squidskinz closed airbox for the sp2 is really an oversized stock airbox (much lighter as well) without the baffles, and filters so it would almost seem logical that there would be an improvement with the stock box if modified as i mentioned.

im looking to learn as much about this as possible before investing money on an airbox that could be potentially used in a better direction.

simplified, how much weight is lost with the aftermarket airboxes, how much real power is gained when comparing apples to apples (custom tune before and after) and what about a modified stock airbox dyno tuned before and after.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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496 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
"expect gains of around 5-8hp, mostly noticable through the mid range.
Weight saving of around 3kg or 6.6lbs
Dont have map D/L, alway best to have the bike custom mapped."

this is some info i found in my search, but is that weight over a stock airbox with the rubber insulators, etc... and are those gains comparing apples to apples so to speak?

and here is a thread that talks about it as well.

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/rc51-technical-discussion/39157-aftermarket-airbox-hps-dynos.html

its not quite clear based on different responses if the gains are more so related to the custom tune or the airbox. although the dyno sheet that turnone posted appears as if it would have previously been dyno tuned (i would expect that) and then obviously after it. but the majority of the results people post are anywhere from 4-7hp after a dyno tune and the box. but im not finding the graphs to substantiate this, and also it doesnt show gains made through the whole rev range.
 

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TOP GUN Instructor
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5,717 Posts
IMHO You are asking ALOT!... For someone to have had their RC51 custom tuned with OEM AirBox.... Ofcourse a Power Commander II or IIIR or III USB is involved here to get a custom tune. Hopefully Slip-Ons are in there too but don't have to be right...;)

FWIW, I myself got a Power Commander III USB as my First mod., while still running OEM exhausts... and as far as a Custom Tune goes... the thought NEVER entered My mind while running OEM exhaust, Not Until I had atleast a set of Slip-Ons installed.
Next step for me, AFTER I got my Slip-Ons... a Custom tune still wasn't going to happen, not until I got Thorsten style AirBox!;) So I have NO proof that it is any better then OEM... NO proof for You or anyone else anyhow... but I can tell you this... It Friggin' WORKS Awesome and in more ways then 1!:woot:

Also, After seeing Stunner-Gunners HRC\Mori AirBox... I see that it IS pretty much the same as Thorstens, except it has a cover, This is something I didn't know, from seeing pictures of a Mori AirBox,.. that the Throttle Bodies do go inside their AirBox too! So, after learning this, I'd say Moris Airbox is very close to the same size as Thorsten AirBox which ofcourse IS Way bigger then OEM!:twocents

FWIW, There was a guy from German (don't remember who) who had mod. the heck out of his OEM airbox... Way more then I would have thought of, but I'm pretty sure he still ended up getting Thorstens AirBox.

As far as the Money going to better place(s)..... Again :twocents that would be:

#1a Forks, #1b Shock,
#2 (Knowing what I know NOW, Definitely!>) #2 IS Rims,...
#3 Power Commander, <I love this thing! This actually is still #1 for Me.
#4 Sip-Ons or Full System
#5a Thorsten AirBox #5b Brembo MC, SS braided lines with HRC pads

and the list goes on and oN and On and ON and ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN:woot:
 

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Slightly Unstable
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496 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
i am asking a lot, but i know that there are people who must have had a custom map prior to installing the airbox that know exactly what gains were made by the airbox alone. and im certain that there are people who weigh each part prior to installing aftermarket parts (dstewart for example).

myself, i got a custom tune on my bike as noted in my sig with the mods i have listed. if i were to get an airbox i would have to get a retune and then i could share my personal experience while comparing apples to apples (same dyno with only the airbox as a new mod). so we would have a precise increase in power with that info, but before i do that im hoping someone else has this info before i spend several hundred bucks. i just bought one of the lithium ferrous batteries, and ill be hacking my rear subframe this winter so ill shed a little weight there, but the airbox is the only performance mod im looking at. if (for example) the real gains were only 2rwhp with the airbox throughout the rev range (since im already custom tuned) then i wouldnt spend that money right now since i also need to either get a set of built forks, or have mine built.
 

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TOP GUN Instructor
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I weight all my stuff when I did this mod., but, it was 4+years ago so I don't remember the exact weight # Dropped off the top of my head here... I am pretty Sure, it IS atleast 7lbs dropped!.. I'll have to check My service Log when I get home for You.;)

I Really want to say, it IS actually over 9lbs dropped,... but, to stay on the safe side, I'll stick with 7lbs., until I can check what I wrote down when I did the mod.

Again, I'm also VERY sure WE do have a member here who's done tuned with a mod. OEM airbox AND Thorsten airbox.. Hopefully he will see and respond to this thread.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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496 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
now, with regards to the weight of the stock airbox, i have already removed the insulators but i dont know what they weighed, so id be curious to see what a stock airbox weighs without those for a realistic weight savings i may be up for.

i do know that the box that is holding all the stuff i took off the rc weighs quite a bit so ive definitely shaved some weight. by the time im done installing my new battery, and hacking the subframe, and misc. items im sure ill lose another 10lbs which is a good loss especially at the elevation that weight is placed.

once im all done ill put her on the scales to see what her fully wet weight is, and if i get an airbox of some sort id definately post the dyno results before and after.

and in regards to airboxes while the mori/squidskinz is surely heavier because its a closed unit i do like the idea of a closed unit in the event of a crash into the pea gravel etc... id hate to have to worry about the tank lifting enough to let debris into the box with open throttle bodies.
 

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Well when I got my new (500 mile) '03 it fueled horribly like a blubbering lawn mower in the wet grass :mad:



One week later satos pc3 usb custom map soft rev. :) the bike was way better more linear.

-12 lbs. ? + 3 H.P.

Then the speedzilla induced mod addiction took over.

Turnone box and snorkel another custom map:D

-7 lbs. ? UP-HIGH and + 7 H.P. 127.9 it felt instantly lighter and the power comes on harder and smoother than ever :woot:

No question the most popular route to go.
Sorry the charts are someplace but to me it's not important.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #8
thats good info. from one custom map to the next with only the airbox you gained 7rwhp... thats a stout improvement.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #9

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now, with regards to the weight of the stock airbox, i have already removed the insulators but i dont know what they weighed, so id be curious to see what a stock airbox weighs without those for a realistic weight savings i may be up for.

i do know that the box that is holding all the stuff i took off the rc weighs quite a bit so ive definitely shaved some weight. by the time im done installing my new battery, and hacking the subframe, and misc. items im sure ill lose another 10lbs which is a good loss especially at the elevation that weight is placed.

once im all done ill put her on the scales to see what her fully wet weight is, and if i get an airbox of some sort id definately post the dyno results before and after.

and in regards to airboxes while the mori/squidskinz is surely heavier because its a closed unit i do like the idea of a closed unit in the event of a crash into the pea gravel etc... id hate to have to worry about the tank lifting enough to let debris into the box with open throttle bodies.
My OEM airbox (without filters) weighed 1808 grams or 3.9 lbs.
The Turn-One airbox weighs 623 gm.
Will be curious what the Squidskins airbox will weigh when it arrives.
 

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Craft Int Instructor
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I had a custom tune, then added airbox with snorkel and had it retuned, on the DucShop Dyno I picked up 3 hp. But it accelerates faster...
And yes the snorkel makes a little difference..
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
thanks for the info subsailor and plwtwo.

[email protected] filters for the stock airbox weigh .77 lbs, so for arguments sake we could call a stock box 4.67lbs with filters. and at 623 grams that makes about 1.4 lbs for the thorsten/t1 airboxes. so roughly a 3.27lb weight loss. id venture to say that the rubber insulators must weigh close to 2 lbs (off the top of my head) which would make only a 5lb weight loss, when most claims ive seen say its about 7lbs. so if you have already removed the insulators you are only going to drop about 3lbs of weight (from info provided/estimated).

and based on plwtwo's info he only gained 3rwhp with a custom tune prior and custom tune after airbox and snorkel (not sure how much the snorkel helped).

grand total so far with info provided is 3.27lbs, and 3hp. personally to me its not worth an estimated $300 bucks.

plwtwo, do you have the dyno charts before and after? perhaps if there was a substantial gain in the midrange that was greater than 3rwhp it would make it more worth it.
 

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its not allways about hp gains sometimes the mod might only release 0.5hp but it might make the bike more lively.
an example ask most who have changed there wheels for superlight marchesinis etc i can tell you if i worked out how much it was costing to the weight saving id of never done it but once on it was like riding an aprillia rs250 so much lighter and responcive for handling and accecleration.
if your not sure read thorstens website properly if your not sure of what modification to do do the one thats allways rite loose weight.
that doesnt allways mean spending loads on airboxes etc theres allways other ways of doing it
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #15
my bike is a track only machine, but i havent completely neutered it since i want to be able to put it back to street in the event that i want to sell it down the road.

already removed everything street except the stock harness is still in place with all wiring except the left clipon controls.

pair mod, flapper, kickstand, race bodywork and anything else not needed. recently purchased a lithium ferrous battery to replace the stocker (8lbs lighter) and ill be cutting the rear subframe this winter as well as a couple other minor things to shed a few ounces or so. ill put her on the scales and see what she tips in at but at least or me there is a barrier as to what is really worth it or not since i dont have $ burning a hole in my pocket.

from the looks of it how my airbox sits now it weighs approx. 4.67 lbs, so going to a t1 or thorsten will only save me 3 more lbs (i can run a 1/2 gallon less fuel for that matter). i would really like to see several before and after dyno runs of custom tuned bikes before and after the airbox install to see how it reacts throughout the rev range, and what gains were truly made by the extra volume/airflow.
 

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thanks for the info subsailor and plwtwo.

[email protected] filters for the stock airbox weigh .77 lbs, so for arguments sake we could call a stock box 4.67lbs with filters and no rubber insulators. and at 623 grams that makes about 1.4 lbs for the thorsten/t1 airboxes. so roughly a 3.27lb weight loss. id venture to say that the rubber isolators must weigh close to 2 lbs (off the top of my head) which would make only a 5lb weight loss, when most claims ive seen say its about 7lbs. so if you have already removed the insulators you are only going to drop about 3lbs of weight (from info provided/estimated).

and based on plwtwo's info he only gained 3rwhp with a custom tune prior and custom tune after airbox and snorkel (not sure how much the snorkel helped).

grand total so far with info provided is 3.27lbs, and 3hp. personally to me its not worth an estimated $300 bucks.

plwtwo, do you have the dyno charts before and after? perhaps if there was a substantial gain in the midrange that was greater than 3rwhp it would make it more worth it.
I forgot to mention (MY HRC TEAM) pitched all the pair flapper stuff in the trash also good for a couple pounds :D
 

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killer midrange, as wingnutt said



pay no attention to the baseline there, that was already after he got it tuned most of the way, before the tune it would barely idle so he couldn't do any real baselines. the bike will power up the front in second gear now fairly easily.
 

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Slightly Unstable
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Discussion Starter #18
selfinfliction, what mods do you have to your bike, and what kind of tires (street or race) did you dyno the bike with?
 
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