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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: The List (Giannis)

Damn. That about sums it up. I guess. The kids got freakin' talent. That's probably the understatement of the year. We are witnessing greatness. This shit is epic.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: The List (aces anugal)

We all know how good Rossi is, but how come after all these years on the track Agostini never finished third.

Rossi's got to go to another team after 2006.....KTM......WCM
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: The List (Harvey T.)

Rossi has been great, without a doubt.
Can he really be compared to anyone who raced in a different era?
IMO, that chart is F'd up. Why only count 250cc wins at a time when 350's were raced? Check out Ago's career stats:

Giacomo Agostini
Career summary

Year.....Team.............350cc.......500cc.......World titles.........TT wins
1963....Moto-Morini.......-..............-..................-.....................-
1964....Moto-Morini.......-..............-..................-.....................-
1965....MV................3 wins........1 win..............-.....................-
1966....MV................3 wins........3 wins..........500 cc............350 cc
1967....MV................1 win..........5 wins..........500 cc.........350 & 500 cc
1968....MV................7 wins.......10 wins....350 & 500 cc.....350 & 500 cc
1969....MV................8 wins.......10 wins....350 & 500 cc.....350 & 500 cc
1970....MV................9 wins.......10 wins....350 & 500 cc.....350 & 500 cc
1971....MV................6 wins........8 wins.....350 & 500 cc........500 cc
1972....MV................6 wins.......11 wins.....350 & 500 cc.....350 & 500 cc
1973....MV................4 wins........3 wins...........350 cc................-
1974....Yamaha.........5 wins........2 wins...........350 cc................-
1975....Yamaha.........1 win..........4 wins...........500 cc................-
1976....MV................1 win..........1 win................-....................-
1977....Suzuki..............-.................-.................-.....................-
Totals.....................54 wins.......68 wins...15 Championships..12 TT wins
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: The List (Rrider)

They could have counted 50cc wins, too. But, they didn't. The list is exactly what it is.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: The List (999)

the list counts only categories that exist.. back then used to race sidecars

and in 70s and 80s they used to race 50s 80s and 350s if they count those some 50cc riders would be on top...


Agostinis champonishios was so easy before yamaha enters the game he didnt have much competition from other machines MV 500 was the top weapon kinda like RC211 now.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: The List (Giannis)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Giannis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the list counts only categories that exist...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, 500GP bikes don't exists anymore but the list counts them anyway. If anyone wants to compare numbers of total rae wins from different eras then you have to also include whatever equipment they raced on. Based on that rational approach the list for total victories in the various GP classes looks like this:

TOTAL WINS RIDER
122 AGOSTINI, Giacomo
90 NIETO, Angel
76 HAILWOOD, Mike
75 ROSSI, Valentino
54 DOOHAN, ****
52 READ, Phil
45 REDMAN, Jim
42 MANG, Anton
42 BIAGGI, Max
39 UBBIALI, Carlo
38 SURTEES, John
37 MARTINEZ, Jorge
34 CADALORA, Luca
33 DUKE, Geoff
31 BALLINGTON, Kork
31 LAWSON, Eddie
30 TAVERI, Luigi
27 LAZZARINI, Eugenio
27 SPENCER, Freddie
27 BIANCHI, Pierpaolo
25 ANDERSON, Hugh
25 SCHWANTZ, Kevin
24 VILLA, Walter
24 RAINEY, Wayne
24 ROBERTS, Kenny
23 SHEENE, Barry
23 CAPIROSSI, Loris
21 IVY, Bill
21 GRESINI, Fausto
20 CRIVILLE, Alex
20 WALDMANN, Ralf
20 PROVINI, Tarquinio
19 TORMO, Ricardo
19 LAVADO, Carlos
19 PEDROSA, Daniel
19 HOCKING, Gary
18 D?FLINGER, Stefan
18 ANDERSSON, Kent
18 GARDNER, Wayne
17 HARADA, Tetsuya
17 KATO, Daijiro
17 MELANDRI, Marco
15 SAARINEN, Jarno
15 PONS, Sito
15 DEGNER, Ernst
14 BRAUN, Dieter
14 DE VRIES, Jan
14 ANSCHEIDT, Hans-Georg
14 CECOTTO, Johnny
14 RAUDIES, Dirk
13 KOCINSKI, John
13 MAMOLA, Randy
13 UEDA, Noboru
12 POGGIALI, Manuel
12 ANDERSON, Fergus
11 UI, Youichi
11 SIMMONDS, Dave
11 HAAS, Werner
11 SAKATA, Kazuto
11 KATAYAMA, Takazumi
10 HANSFORD, Greg
10 AZUMA, Masao
10 BRYANS, Ralph
10 GOULD, Rodney
9 AOKI, Haruchika
9 LOCATELLI, Roberto
9 ELIAS, Toni
9 GIANOLA, Ezio
9 SPAAN, Hans
9 GIBERNAU, Sete
9 LOMAS, Bill
8 PILERI, Paolo
8 GRAHAM, Leslie
8 REGGIANI, Loris
8 ROBERTS, Kenny
8 LANSIVUORI, Tevo
7 UNCINI, Franco
7 LORENZETTI, Enrico
7 MORTIMER, Chas
7 VAN KESSEL, Henk
7 BARROS, Alex
7 VINCENT, Arnaud
7 CECCHINELLO, Lucio
7 EKEROLD, Jonnie
7 ARMSTRONG, Reg
7 PORTO, Sebastian
7 SARRON, Christian
7 CARRUTHERS, Kel
7 JACQUE, Olivier
6 PASOLINI, Renzo
6 LIBERATI, Libero
6 HERWEH, Manfred
6 PHILLIS, Tom
6 MASETTI, Umberto
6 TOERSEN, Aalt
6 BERTIN, Guy
6 LUCCHINELLI, Marco
6 MANAKO, Tomomi
6 NAKANO, Shinya
6 BARBERA, Hector
6 OKADA, Tadayuki
6 AMM, Ray
6 ROMBONI, Doriano
5 UKAWA, Tohru
5 AMBROSINI, Dario
5 McINTYRE, Bob
5 BALD? Jean Francois
5 PERUGINI, Stefano
5 AUINGER, August
5 HOLLAUS, Rupert
5 McCOY, Garry
5 FRITH, Freddie
5 CHILI, Pierfrancesco
5 HARTLE, John
5 SANDFORD, Cecyl
5 DOVIZIOSO, Andrea
5 CARD?, Carlos
5 TSUJIMURA, Takeshi
5 NIETO, Fonsi
5 KAVANAGH, Ken
5 TOKUDOME, Masaki
5 BRADL, Helmut
5 DE PUNIET, Randy
5 KNEUB?LER, Bruno
5 HARTOG, Wil
5 OETTL, Peter
4 DODDS, John
4 SMITH, Barry
4 DE RADIGUES, Didier
4 JANSSON, Borje
4 PAGANI, Nello
4 STONER, Casey
4 LODEWIJKX, Paul
4 KATAYAMA, Yoshimi
4 RUFFO, Bruno
4 WAIBEL, Gerhard
4 PARLOTTI, Gilberto
4 TAKAHASHI, Kuninitsu
4 RITTBERGER, Herbert
4 LORENZO, Jorge
4 ALZAMORA, Emilio
4 HERRERO, Santiago
4 SARRON, Dominique
4 STASTNY, Franta
4 DRAPAL, Janos
3 FINDLAY, Jack
3 CORNU, Jacques
3 ABE, Norick
3 TIMMER, Theo
3 FOSTER, Bob
3 ROBB, Tommy
3 RUGGIA, Jean Philippe
3 CANN, Maurice
3 MENDOGNI, Emilio
3 ROTH, Reinhold
3 SANNA, Simone
3 CAMPBELL, Keith
3 DUFF, Mike
3 KANAYA, Hideo
3 ROLFO, Roberto
3 WILLIAMS, Charlie
3 PAGANI, Alberto
3 PERRIS, Frank
3 BEATTIE, Daryl
3 GRANT, Mike
3 GRASSETTI, Silvio
3 LEONI, Gianni
3 ROUGERIE, Michel
3 BUSCHERINI, Otello
3 GRAMIGNI, Alessandro
3 VAN ZEEBROECK, Julien
3 MILANI, Alfredo
3 ROSSI, Graziano
3 FERNANDEZ, Patrick
3 HENNEN, Pat
3 GARRIGA, Juan
3 WIMMER, Martin
2 WOOD, Tommy
2 TORRONTEGUI, Herri
2 GRAHAM, Stuart
2 McCANDLESS, Cromie
2 TALMACSI, Gabor
2 SAUL, Eric
2 MIDDELBURG, Jack
2 HUBERTS, Jan
2 SCALVINI, Gianluigi
2 WHEELER, Arthur
2 RUTTER, Tony
2 GANDOSSI, Alberto
2 TAMADA, Makoto
2 DALE, Dickie
2 CA?LLAS, Salvador
2 ITOH, Mitsuo
2 DORAN, William
2 HERRON, Tom
2 MONNERET, Pierre
2 KASSNER, Helmut
2 CHECA, Carlos
2 HERREROS, Manuel
2 PASINI, Mattia
2 VITALI, Maurizio
2 LACONI, Regis
2 PALAZZESE, Ivan
2 SHEPHERD, Alan
2 BERGAMONTI, Angelo
2 SIMONCELLI, Marco
2 BONERA, Gianfranco
2 FERRARI, Virginio
1 GOI, Ivan
1 THUROW, Gerhard
1 BELL, Artie
1 REITMAIER, Fritz
1 PALOMO, Victor
1 LUTHI, Thomas
1 JEFFERIES, Tony
1 NEWBOLD, John
1 CASANOVA, Bruno
1 CASOLI, Paolo
1 IRELAND, Dennis
1 NORTH, Alan
1 KAFKA, Gerd
1 CREITH, R.
1 GUSTAFSSON, Leif
1 GUILLEUX, Herve
1 ITO, Fumio
1 TOURNADRE, Jean Louis
1 KORHONEN, Penti
1 BARRINGTON, Manliefe
1 LUCCHI, Marcellino
1 McCONNACHIE, Ian
1 LEGA, Mario
1 CHEVALLIER, Olivier
1 MOLLOY, Ginger
1 CALDARELLA, Benedicto
1 GRAU, Benjamin
1 NASH, Godfrey
1 FRUTSCHI, Michel
1 KOBAYASHI, Masaru
1 LEONI, Guido
1 WEST, Anthony
1 HASEGAWA, Horoshi
1 SELINI, Jean Claude
1 SCHNEIDER, Bert
1 SCHURGERS, Jos
1 BOLLE, Jacques
1 MINTER, Derek
1 SPAGGIARI, Bruno
1 NEWCOMBE, Kim
1 VENTURI, Remo
1 NIETO, Pablo
1 WILLIAMS, John
1 CELSO-SANTOS, Adu
1 BALLERINI, Andrea
1 M?LER, Hermann Paul
1 EMMERICH, Ingo
1 MORISHITA, Isao
1 TANAKA, Kenjiro
1 DANIELL, Harold
1 CZIHAK, Edmund
1 JENKNER, Steve
1 AOKI, Nobuatsu
1 TAIRA, Tadahiko
1 FREYMOND, Roland
1 GRAF, Ulrich
1 KALLIO, Mika
1 COLNAGO, Giuseppe
1 VAN DONGEN, Cees
1 PUIG, Alberto
1 FERRI, Romolo
1 PREIN, Stefan
1 MAGEE, Kevin
1 RICCI, Fausto
1 BRIGAGLIA, Domenico
1 BRUINS, Jan
1 CARPENTER, Phil
1 MUDFORD, Ken
1 SIMON, Julian
1 AGOSTINI, Duilio
1 McCULLOUGH, Ray
1 COLEMAN, Rod
1 SALA, Guido
1 CRAFAR, Simon
1 CARTER, Alan
1 COPETA, Angelo
1 VAN DULMEN, Boet
1 FILICE, Jim
1 F?NER, Horst
1 AUREAL, Jean
1 CONFORTI, Pier Luigi
1 WILLIAMS, Peter
1 AHEARN, Jack
1 FELGENHEIER, Roland
1 HAYDEN, Nicky
1 KISSLING, Jorge
1 MIYAZAKI, Osamu
1 BRETT, Jack
1 ZEELENBERG, Wilco
1 McWILLIAMS, Jeremy
1 STOELLINGER, Edi
1 MARSOVSZKY, Gyula

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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G

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: The List (bsess)

It sounds like Rossi is going by the list bsess posted.

From http://www.superbikeplanet.com...m.htm:

'...victory at the Sachsenring would bring him level with Mike Hailwood at 75 career wins in all GP classes. "It would be a pleasure to arrive at Mike the Bike," was The Doctor's opinion before the race.'
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: The List (Baasinator)

This is the list that counts the most and that is the number of all time premier class wins. Rossi should be at the top of it sometime during the 2007 season.

TOTAL WINS RIDER
68 AGOSTINI, Giacomo
54 DOOHAN, ****
49 ROSSI, Valentino
37 HAILWOOD, Mike
31 LAWSON, Eddie
25 SCHWANTZ, Kevin
24 RAINEY, Wayne
22 SURTEES, John
22 DUKE, Geoff
22 ROBERTS, Kenny
20 SPENCER, Freddie
19 SHEENE, Barry
18 GARDNER, Wayne
15 CRIVILLE, Alex
13 MAMOLA, Randy
13 BIAGGI, Max
11 READ, Phil
9 GIBERNAU, Sete
8 CADALORA, Luca
8 ROBERTS, Kenny
8 HOCKING, Gary
7 BARROS, Alex
6 MASETTI, Umberto
6 LUCCHINELLI, Marco
5 UNCINI, Franco
5 GRAHAM, Leslie
5 HARTOG, Wil
4 LIBERATI, Libero
4 OKADA, Tadayuki
4 ARMSTRONG, Reg
4 KOCINSKI, John
3 FINDLAY, Jack
3 ABE, Norick
3 CECOTTO, Johnny
3 BEATTIE, Daryl
3 MILANI, Alfredo
3 McCOY, Garry
3 CAPIROSSI, Loris
3 HENNEN, Pat
3 HARTLE, John
3 PAGANI, Alberto
2 SAARINEN, Jarno
2 CHECA, Carlos
2 MIDDELBURG, Jack
2 LACONI, Regis
2 PAGANI, Nello
2 AMM, Ray
2 ANDERSON, Fergus
2 REDMAN, Jim
2 TAMADA, Makoto
2 FERRARI, Virginio
1 DORAN, William
1 UKAWA, Tohru
1 NEWBOLD, John
1 DANIELL, Harold
1 SIMMONDS, Dave
1 McINTYRE, Bob
1 IRELAND, Dennis
1 CZIHAK, Edmund
1 CREITH, R.
1 GRANT, Mike
1 HERRON, Tom
1 MONNERET, Pierre
1 COLNAGO, Giuseppe
1 McCANDLESS, Cromie
1 CALDARELLA, Benedicto
1 PUIG, Alberto
1 NASH, Godfrey
1 FRUTSCHI, Michel
1 KATAYAMA, Takazumi
1 MAGEE, Kevin
1 KAVANAGH, Ken
1 CARPENTER, Phil
1 MORTIMER, Chas
1 SHEPHERD, Alan
1 SARRON, Christian
1 BERGAMONTI, Angelo
1 LANSIVUORI, Tevo
1 CRAFAR, Simon
1 VAN DULMEN, Boet
1 NEWCOMBE, Kim
1 BONERA, Gianfranco
1 AHEARN, Jack
1 DALE, Dickie
1 KANAYA, Hideo
1 HAYDEN, Nicky
1 KISSLING, Jorge
1 STASTNY, Franta
1 VENTURI, Remo
1 CHILI, Pierfrancesco
1 BRETT, Jack
1 WILLIAMS, John
1 LOMAS, Bill

-----------------------------------------------------
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: The List (bsess)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bsess »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well, 500GP bikes don't exists anymore but the list counts them anyway.

</TD></TR></TABLE>


So by 2007 when they will race 800cc you will not count Rossi's championships!

350s didn't change to 400cc or 300cc so 50s and 80s.. they just droped fromt heir calendar
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Re: The List (Giannis)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Giannis »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


So by 2007 when they will race 800cc you will not count Rossi's championships!
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Try re-reading my post. You're looking for an argument where none exists.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: The List (bsess)

The premier class is the only ones that count. Who cares about F3 wins when a driver is in F1?
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Re: The List (bsess)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bsess »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Try re-reading my post. You're looking for an argument where none exists.</TD></TR></TABLE>

is not an argument.. you said if they dont count 350 should not count 500 and i say 500 didnt stop to race they just change the technical rules.. as you know they used to race 4 stroke in the past too but a 500 fours stroke today wouldnt be as fast a 250 twostroke in GPs
 
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