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Is it even fair to say the last one. Sort of a given these days like death and taxes.

The 3 aliens have me perplexed. Stoner, hampered by injuries could come on strong since he had a good finish before the break. Pedrosa is the same arguement. Lorenzo, by far the most underrated alien imo is still a mystery as to how hard he can take the fight to Stoner. It's a crapshoot tbh and I love that. I suspect per Stoner's prediction that the rest of the season will be much like the first 1/2, no clue whatsoever.

My pick this race, Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa because I think Lorenzo is the most difficult to predict followed by Stoner. Pedrosa, more time to heal equals more pace but I still think he will be more hampered by his injuries than the others.
 

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Is it even fair to say the last one. Sort of a given these days like death and taxes.

The 3 aliens have me perplexed. Stoner, hampered by injuries could come on strong since he had a good finish before the break. Pedrosa is the same arguement. Lorenzo, by far the most underrated alien imo is still a mystery as to how hard he can take the fight to Stoner. It's a crapshoot tbh and I love that. I suspect per Stoner's prediction that the rest of the season will be much like the first 1/2, no clue whatsoever.

My pick this race, Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa because I think Lorenzo is the most difficult to predict followed by Stoner. Pedrosa, more time to heal equals more pace but I still think he will be more hampered by his injuries than the others.
This is my take on the four aliens.

Stoner: the fastest rider for a single lap. Learning patience and racecraft. Still improving as a racer. Currently untouchable when the bike is dialed in to his liking.

Lorenzo: next best "racer" to Rossi. Strong in all areas, Yamaha is not quite as good as the Honda. Still improving. Lorenzo on a Honda would likely be very tough to beat for the championship.

Pedrosa: years of being battered are taking their toll. Appears very fragile, but when he is healthy he can definitely mix it up. Not as good at qualifying as Stoner or Lorenzo. Probably never going to be MotoGP champ, but will be a threat for race wins until he is forced to retire due to injury.

Rossi: probably still the best overall but does not have the machine to figure into the podium fight most weekends. The other question is his shoulder and if it really is 100%, or if he is losing motivation as he gets older and will not take the same chances. Until the Ducati is shown to be competitive, we cannot know how each of these questions factor into his relatively poor results. He knew the Ducati would be a challenge, but this marriage made in Italian heaven is quickly looking like Ike & Tina: one minute making great music together, the next minute one is getting the s&!% beat out of them.

The near-aliens:
Simoncelli: blazing single lap speed, but has difficulty stringing together a complete race. Pushes too hard and crashes either by himself or into someone else. You are only supposed to have one rookie season, Simo may make a career out of them.

Dovizioso: threat to podiums and maybe lucky wins, but is the third-best rider with Repsol on his leathers. Seems to have stalled a bit in development this year. Will probably be tossed down to second-tier Honda status next year and rarely heard from again.

Spies: Having an up and down year for sure. The win was a big highlight but definitely in the shadow of his teammate. Next year will be a telling season. Even though he is only 26 or so, he needs to either become a real championship contender or risk falling by the wayside as younger riders (Marquez?) come through the ranks.
 

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This is my take on the four aliens.

Stoner: the fastest rider for a single lap. Learning patience and racecraft. Still improving as a racer. Currently untouchable when the bike is dialed in to his liking.

Lorenzo: next best "racer" to Rossi. Strong in all areas, Yamaha is not quite as good as the Honda. Still improving. Lorenzo on a Honda would likely be very tough to beat for the championship.

Pedrosa: years of being battered are taking their toll. Appears very fragile, but when he is healthy he can definitely mix it up. Not as good at qualifying as Stoner or Lorenzo. Probably never going to be MotoGP champ, but will be a threat for race wins until he is forced to retire due to injury.

Rossi: probably still the best overall but does not have the machine to figure into the podium fight most weekends. The other question is his shoulder and if it really is 100%, or if he is losing motivation as he gets older and will not take the same chances. Until the Ducati is shown to be competitive, we cannot know how each of these questions factor into his relatively poor results. He knew the Ducati would be a challenge, but this marriage made in Italian heaven is quickly looking like Ike & Tina: one minute making great music together, the next minute one is getting the s&!% beat out of them.

The near-aliens:
Simoncelli: blazing single lap speed, but has difficulty stringing together a complete race. Pushes too hard and crashes either by himself or into someone else. You are only supposed to have one rookie season, Simo may make a career out of them.

Dovizioso: threat to podiums and maybe lucky wins, but is the third-best rider with Repsol on his leathers. Seems to have stalled a bit in development this year. Will probably be tossed down to second-tier Honda status next year and rarely heard from again.

Spies: Having an up and down year for sure. The win was a big highlight but definitely in the shadow of his teammate. Next year will be a telling season. Even though he is only 26 or so, he needs to either become a real championship contender or risk falling by the wayside as younger riders (Marquez?) come through the ranks.

Very good and I agree on most if not all accounts. Here are my notes:

Stoner: Fastest single lap rider on Planet Earth. Misfortune is his achilles heel. The only way to beat Stoner is to fight with him (which he doesn't like to do and often whines when it happens), or if he suffers some misfortune (Crash or mechanical). If he gets clean laps he is rarely reeled back in if ever.

Lorenzo: Complete rider. Not quite as outright fast as Stoner but fights a little better than Stoner in close quarters racing. The Smoothest rider in the world and is known to get stronger in the latter stages of a race.

Pedrosa: Almost complete. Fast but struggles in the braking dept. and his fitness has been known to fade in the latter stages of races. The opposite of Jorge. Pedrosa wins races where there are a lot of Stop-n-Go corners as his acceleration and drive off the corners is unmatched by anyone in the world (attested to by even Stoner).

Rossi: The most complete rider in the world. May not be the fastest, may not be the smoothest, but he is not lacking an any area whatsoever. His race craft and his ability to fight is unparalleled. His fitness does not fade in the race regardless of the conditions. Rossi is also an effective development rider. It remains to be seen if he will turn the Ducati back into a winner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Agreed with almost all of that ^^^, and would add that if you gave Rossi the third Honda, things would be alot more interesting. One other note is that Hayden is probably the most underrated of them all, he has taken it to Rossi on the POS Duc all season, given a real bike he would rival Spies...
 

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Agreed with almost all of that ^^^, and would add that if you gave Rossi the third Honda, things would be alot more interesting. One other note is that Hayden is probably the most underrated of them all, he has taken it to Rossi on the POS Duc all season, given a real bike he would rival Spies...
ABSOLUTELY!!! Probably the best thing I've read on this forum to date.
 

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Panigaliscious
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I considered adding Hayden in the second-tier "near aliens" for the reasons you state. He results are nearly as good as Rossi on the Ducati in its various iterations this year.

I like Hayden and root for him (more now than when he was on Honda), the thing is I just don't see him ever really challenging for race wins, let alone a championship, again. Hard working, dependable, consistent, and at least mid-pack fast...Hayden seems like the perfect second rider for a team. He will probably have a few more years in MotoGP, and then would be a strong championship threat in WSBK is he chose to continue riding.

I would love to see Rossi & Hayden 1-2, or 2-1 all next year when the 1000cc bikes arrive, I just don't see it happening. The bike will be developed according to Rossi's wishes, and like Honda 2007 Hayden will find himself on a bike designed for someone else.

BTW, IMO Hayden would have been a helluva good 500 rider back in the bad old days of 180 hp bikes with narrow powerbands and steering by spinning the rear. He was just born 10 years too late.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
One could also speculate that he is on an inferior bike to Rossi's, and the reason I would mention this is that Vale got the new chassis first. Hayden won a world championship for Honda on their test bike, the thing had weirdo parts on it all year, and never had a clutch that worked. Given the right equipment, I think he could win. But not even Rossi could ride the Duc as set up by Stoner, I'm pretty sure he just set the thing up stiff as a board, and slid it around every corner hoping not to get caught up in the washboards. Ballsy yes, nobody can match what he did on that POS...
 

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Very good and I agree on most if not all accounts. Here are my notes:

Stoner: Fastest single lap rider on Planet Earth. Misfortune is his achilles heel. The only way to beat Stoner is to fight with him (which he doesn't like to do and often whines when it happens), or if he suffers some misfortune (Crash or mechanical). If he gets clean laps he is rarely reeled back in if ever.

Lorenzo: Complete rider. Not quite as outright fast as Stoner but fights a little better than Stoner in close quarters racing. The Smoothest rider in the world and is known to get stronger in the latter stages of a race.

Pedrosa: Almost complete. Fast but struggles in the braking dept. and his fitness has been known to fade in the latter stages of races. The opposite of Jorge. Pedrosa wins races where there are a lot of Stop-n-Go corners as his acceleration and drive off the corners is unmatched by anyone in the world (attested to by even Stoner).

Rossi: The most complete rider in the world. May not be the fastest, may not be the smoothest, but he is not lacking an any area whatsoever. His race craft and his ability to fight is unparalleled. His fitness does not fade in the race regardless of the conditions. Rossi is also an effective development rider. It remains to be seen if he will turn the Ducati back into a winner.

Well reasoned thoughts from both of you. I agree with nearly all of this.

Pedrobot does have an inherent advantage in the stop-and-go stuff with his (lack of) mass. One of the reasons I'd like to see a rider + bike minimum weight reg rather than the bike only. I'm like to see the big guys NOT have an inherent disadvantage in acceleration and braking performance, with all else being equal, and I don;t believe the added bulk/mass/muscle of the bigger guys fully offsets the lighter guys advantage mass advantage.
 

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Practice times:



Friday, August 12, 2011
Pos. Rider Team Bike Time
1 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:56.328
2 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:57.294
3 Marco Simoncelli San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:57.408
4 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:57.587
5 Andrea Dovizioso Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:57.776
6 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:57.903
7 John Hopkins Rizla Suzuki Suzuki GSV-R 1:58.321
8 Alvara Bautista Rizla Suzuki Suzuki GSV-R 1:58.345
9 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:58.390
10 Colin Edwards Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:58.497
11 Valentino Rossi Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:58.819
12 Randy De Puniet Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:58.927
13 Hector Barbera Aspar Team Ducati GP11 1:58.973
14 Nicky Hayden Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:58.975
15 Hiroshi Aoyama San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:59.289
16 Karel Abraham Cardion AB MotoRacing Ducati GP11 1:59.334
17 Loris Capirossi Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:59.706
18 Toni Elias LCR Honda Honda RC212V 2:00.201
 

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Good showing by Hopkins so far. After initially rooting for him, I came to dislike Hopper after he was in MotoGP for a while for his somewhat immature, bitter resentments that he occasionally expressed toward others but these days, I am hoping that he can fully redeem himself (an hopefully cash in) through the present day, 2nd chance opportunities he has been fortunate enough to receive.
 

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Panigaliscious
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Fp2

1 26 Dani PEDROSA HONDA 1'56.454
2 27 Casey STONER HONDA 1'56.831
3 58 Marco SIMONCELLI HONDA 1'57.136
4 1 Jorge LORENZO YAMAHA 1'57.174
5 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO HONDA 1'57.535
6 11 Ben SPIES YAMAHA 1'57.631
7 46 Valentino ROSSI DUCATI 1'57.745
8 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SUZUKI 1'57.857
9 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW YAMAHA 1'57.859
10 21 John HOPKINS SUZUKI 1'57.880
 

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Practice times:



Friday, August 12, 2011
Pos. Rider Team Bike Time
1 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:56.328
2 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:57.294
3 Marco Simoncelli San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:57.408
4 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:57.587
5 Andrea Dovizioso Repsol Honda Honda RC212V 1:57.776
6 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:57.903
7 John Hopkins Rizla Suzuki Suzuki GSV-R 1:58.321
8 Alvara Bautista Rizla Suzuki Suzuki GSV-R 1:58.345
9 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:58.390
10 Colin Edwards Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:58.497
11 Valentino Rossi Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:58.819
12 Randy De Puniet Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:58.927
13 Hector Barbera Aspar Team Ducati GP11 1:58.973
14 Nicky Hayden Ducati Marlboro Ducati GP11 1:58.975
15 Hiroshi Aoyama San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda RC212V 1:59.289
16 Karel Abraham Cardion AB MotoRacing Ducati GP11 1:59.334
17 Loris Capirossi Pramac Racing Ducati GP11 1:59.706
18 Toni Elias LCR Honda Honda RC212V 2:00.201

Sh!T!!!! How the mighty have fallen. All 6 Ducatis in the bottom 8 slots, with 2 Hondas, and best Ducati (Rossi) 2.5 seconds off the pace.

I'm almost considering helping pay for Marge to go and help them. :)

At least Rossi picked up a second or so in FP2, but still worthing howling like a little baby about.... ;)
 
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