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Shampoo? I use real poo
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Rossi: more and different bikes including two & four stroke championships, strong competition, younger, funny as well, and when he pushes it like it's about to break, it's difficult to notice; more poles I believe, more race wins, more to come.
 

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Thud
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Doohan???

It's a tossup between Rossi and Lawson. Doohan never proved himself like those two did. Yeah he rode the NSR500 but Eddie tamed it for him first (and won a championship in the process.)
 

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Hmm... I don't know if I agree that the NSR500 was tamed for Doohan beforehand, because other guys had the same bike and he was riding it the fastest.

MENTALLY is a toss up I'd say. Rossi has never had to deal with somebody who was that fast AND mentally strong. As Burgess said in Faster, Doohan wanted to crush his competition and he let them know it... and he did. It would be interesting to see how Rossi would have handled that. Remember when Barros won the last race of the season in 2003 and Rossi finished second? Rossi reacted, lost his cool and was PO'ed. So much so he didn't even show up for the press conference. Just think if Doohan was constantly there giving him sh!t on and off the track.

Furthermore, Doohan was infamous for letting it all hang out even when he totally had the race covered. This came back and bit him in the ass on occassion, but he justified it by stating that he was there to race and constantly push himself and the bike... and that is one of the main reasons why he was so dominant.

Anyway, if push came to shove.............. I think Doohan would take it... but I also think that Rossi would get the best of him in the long run. So, my answer is that I have no idea. :D
 

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Tripod-R said:
Hmm... I don't know if I agree that the NSR500 was tamed for Doohan beforehand, because other guys had the same bike and he was riding it the fastest.

MENTALLY is a toss up I'd say. Rossi has never had to deal with somebody who was that fast AND mentally strong. As Burgess said in Faster, Doohan wanted to crush his competition and he let them know it... and he did. It would be interesting to see how Rossi would have handled that. Remember when Barros won the last race of the season in 2003 and Rossi finished second? Rossi reacted, lost his cool and was PO'ed. So much so he didn't even show up for the press conference. Just think if Doohan was constantly there giving him sh!t on and off the track.

Furthermore, Doohan was infamous for letting it all hang out even when he totally had the race covered. This came back and bit him in the ass on occassion, but he justified it by stating that he was there to race and constantly push himself and the bike... and that is one of the main reasons why he was so dominant.

Anyway, if push came to shove.............. I think Doohan would take it... but I also think that Rossi would get the best of him in the long run. So, my answer is that I have no idea. :D
You are right in your comments about the "winner's attitude" but I disagree with your idea that because Doohan was the baddest boy on the block (just like Foggy) that he would be the king. Rossi doesn't have the chip on the shoulder grudge, he just is relaxed, laid back, havin' fun....and kickin' every ass in town.....believe me, he understands what the bike is doing and capable of doing better than anyone who ever swung a leg over a bike. Just because he doesn't have scowl on his face doesn't mean that he won't kick the meanest, baddest, slickest, fastest gunfighter into total oblivion......his dad wants him to move on to F1....and he should. He would have the same success....why? Because only a select few people on this earth have "the touch"...the ability to feel EXACTLY what the machine is doing and can do and can be made to do.....can't develop "the touch", either Mother Nature gave your nerve endings that special touch or she didn't.
 

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In a related vein.....I watch Vale very closely every race to see what he is doing at every point in the track and am totally amazed at how he can gamble big time on a turn, get way wide, have a major wiggle, lose a spot, get a huge out of control micromoment, look around to see who saw it and who is on his tail, laugh, put his head down and just smoke anyone on the track....they make a mistake and they lose the bike and are out of the race....Vale does a delicate tapdance and RARELY EVER loses the bike no matter how out of whack he is.....the "touch", that nerve ending meeting metal, rubber, plastic and unobtanium that tells him that one thousandth of a second that the bike is ready to kiss his ass goodbye and he just does that teeny tiny little adjustment that makes the difference between staying up and going down.
 

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i think he study his bike on every race. remeber this donigton? he did a couple wet slides and after he found out where and why happened put his head down and moved 5 sec faster than anyone else with out slides or dangerous manuvres! He is a natural born talent :notworthy :clapper
 

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Rossi.

After it was obvious he couldn't be touched on the Honda, Vale took a bike that rarely saw a podium and turned it into an even more dominant ride.

Doohan would have never left Honda to try that.
 

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I think you have to look at overall winning percentage. I believe Rossi is somewhere around 50%. I'm pretty sure Doohan isn't anywhere close to that high of a winning percentage...
 

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I find it hard to make a decission about this. Like Senna in F1, Rossi has the light heartbeat that means he isn't stressed about what he is doing. I would have liked to have seen Doohan's heartbeat while he was racing. Being that motorcycle racing and car racing are very physically and mentally demanding, an elevated heart rate suggests more stress and is therefore more taxing, meaning that less is left over for paying attention and thinking. The fact that Rossi can get in an F1 car and turn laps in the 2:00 seconds over the world champ mark is a statement unto itself (though that 2 seconds is an eternity in a F1 race). There just isn't enough info out there about Doohan's physical state when he was racing, and I haven't seen anything about F1 tests either.
 

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Thud
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Tripod-R said:
Hmm... I don't know if I agree that the NSR500 was tamed for Doohan beforehand, because other guys had the same bike and he was riding it the fastest.
Buy a video of the 1989 GP season. Lawson and Kanemoto tamed that NSR for everyone. Eddie's teammates, 1987 champion Wayne Gardner and Doohan himself were busy getting their asses thrown down the road while he proceeded to beat the likes of Rainey, Schwantz and Mamola (among others) for the title. You gotta see these races. That NSR tried to spit Eddie off at every corner exit. Soup has a great article about the whole NSR500 pedigree:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/NSR500.htm

Mat makes some particular comments about the 1989 model:

Now came a landmark moment in the NSR's history. Lawson fell out with Marlboro Yamaha and defected to Honda, teaming up with Spencer's former guru Erv Kanemoto. Lawson's prowess was a turning point because the Californian knew how a 500 should handle - after all, he'd raced Yamahas since '83 - and Kanemoto had the influence to get things done at HRC. But Lawson swapped sides too late to have any say in the design of the '89 NSR. Needless to say he was appalled when he first tried the bike, just like Honda's latest signing, fresh-faced young Aussie **** Doohan. Said Lawson: "Riding the Honda was like death - every time you flicked into a turn you didn't know if you'd make it out."

What HRC had created was probably the most evil race bike ever built. The motor was now massively powerful, making more than 170 bhp, and Honda had made more flawed chassis changes. Now the chassis just wasn't strong enough to handle the horses. And the brakes were useless too.

Lawson's season started disastrously but got better as Kanemoto toiled day and night to fix the bike's handling. They went through more than a dozen chassis redesigns that year, new units jetted from Japan to Europe every week or two. It paid off, Lawson just beat Yamaha's new find Wayne Rainey to the title, while Doohan and Gardner spent most of the year crashing their brains out.


This was the first NSR I got to ride. I'd paid for my own plane ticket to Suzuka and wished I hadn't. I'd ridden street bikes that handled better than Lawson's NSR and it was so blindingly, terrifyingly fast. First, the thing tried to throw me off in sixth gear in a straight line. Then after HRC mechanics had adjusted the steering damper, the bike wanted to go straight on at the end of the back straight - getting it turned for the fast left was a superhuman effort. Maximum respect to Lawson, who, unsurprisingly, scurried back to Yamaha for 1990.

But Steady Eddie's legacy lived on. Doohan's crew chief Jerry Burgess believes the 1990 NSR was the best ever - a huge leap forward. HRC dumped the 90-degree firing order, copying the more forgiving Yamaha's double-strike 180-degree configuration to tame wheelspin. This was the first step towards the Big Bang concept. And for the first time HRC trimmed the bike right to the 115kg minimum. So when Doohan's crew made some mid-season geometry changes, he was able to take his first GP win in Hungary.
 

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I can't really say.
Doohan had better competition IMO. That makes me lean towards Doohan.
Also if Doohan and Rossi met up at present you know D-woo would win or die trying.
As far as the comments about heart rate goes. Rossi is like 7 or 10yrs. younger than Max. Plus Max is about 7kgs. heavier.
MEN: 220- age = age-adjusted Max HR

When I first watched "Faster" I kinda thought about the comments that the Dr. had made. I thought to myself, that's not real science. Just kind of a irrational train of thought, not to factor in all the variables.
Maybe he had a cold that day and was on cold meds? Maybe he doesn't train as hard as he should/could. Maybe his preference in geometry requires more hustle on his part, ect, ect.

Is one better? We'll never know since they will never compete. Neither can you say Val will be competitive on F1 because he's shown himself to be genius in MotoGp. I wish him the best if he did make the switch. Yet, I don't think anyone has won more races than Ago and he had miserable results in auto racing.
 

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apfelbaum said:
I find it hard to make a decission about this. Like Senna in F1, Rossi has the light heartbeat that means he isn't stressed about what he is doing. I would have liked to have seen Doohan's heartbeat while he was racing. Being that motorcycle racing and car racing are very physically and mentally demanding, an elevated heart rate suggests more stress and is therefore more taxing, meaning that less is left over for paying attention and thinking. The fact that Rossi can get in an F1 car and turn laps in the 2:00 seconds over the world champ mark is a statement unto itself (though that 2 seconds is an eternity in a F1 race). There just isn't enough info out there about Doohan's physical state when he was racing, and I haven't seen anything about F1 tests either.
I bet Rossi's heartbeat was a up a few beats his first year on the Yamaha.:twocents
 

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Another Rossi vote....

As mentioned several times above, even Dr, Costa noted Vale's ability to deal with the stress & intensity of racing with such control that his heart rate actually decreases - that's amazing!

Doohan was good but Rossi does indeed have the capacity to understand his bike, the track conditions and what's more, he has the ability to balance all of the factors and the talent to make the necessary adjustments to get the bike to respond - no matter what the conditions.

I would say a more relevant question to ponder is what percentage of his success is purely Rossi & what percentage is attributable to JB? :twocents
 
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