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Discussion Starter #1
Who pushes to turn and who pulls? Little bit of both??

It seems to me that pulling makes more sense in that it allows your body to lean into the turn more/hang off more, whereas pushing tends to force your body back into the neutral/upright position (a very small amount). I know many instructors say to push but I think that is based mainly on under-experienced riders for which they are trying to keep it simple.



Thoughts?
 
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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Push or pull to turn? (Mental998)

I initiate by a push down on the inside foot & pull by the outside arm
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Re: Push or pull to turn? (sm0kimOn)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sm0kimOn »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Who pushes to turn and who pulls? Little bit of both??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I assume you're referring to the initial countersteer as you enter a turn...

In that case, I'm going to call it "a little bit of both".

Since your handlebars pivot, you can't do one without the other. You always want to keep the pressure on each side of the bar neutral, and if you're pushing one side without pulling the other one equally, then you're fighting your opposite hand.
 
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Discussion Starter #5
Re: Push or pull to turn? (hank)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hank »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I initiate by a push down on the inside foot & pull by the outside arm</TD></TR></TABLE>

Aaaaagh! Read this thread...
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Push or pull to turn? (sm0kimOn)

<beavis mode>pull my finger, he he he<end beavis mode>
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: Push or pull to turn? (sm0kimOn)

If you push with your outside foot, it will help you push with the inside hand/arm. This will also help you get your body in the correct position.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Re: Push or pull to turn? (sm0kimOn)

What Martin/Rotty said. Plus, remember you shouldn't use your arms to hang off but rather use your waist/hip and knees/legs.

Perhaps a CSS refresher?
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Re: (socal)

this has to be one of those chicken before the egg questions !!!!
okay lets say a left hander ... first ..brake , pivot on the saddel
(push out side leg)lean (push in side arm ) .. in the event that the back is tryin to step out on you push hard on the inside leg ,, so yeah at times both
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Re: (04749s)

I tend to push for the initial counter steer into the corner and pull to stand the bike up at the exit.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Re: Push or pull to turn? (sm0kimOn)

Pull when alone and push when with a girl;)
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: Push or pull to turn? (deimh)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deimh »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pull when alone and push when with a girl;)</TD></TR></TABLE>


Amen Brother!!
 
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Discussion Starter #15
i would say combo of both. I always focused on putting pressure on the outside foot and lead into the corner/turn with inside shoulder. This way never really payed attention to what hands were doing but i guess naturally both occur. Read Keith Code's books before I started riding road bikes 5 years ago and had lots of time visuallizing it (daydream) prior to being able to afford bike after college.
 
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Discussion Starter #16
Re: Push or pull to turn? (AZ Scott)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AZ Scott »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Aaaaagh! Read this thread...
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No thanks... I did all 4 Keith Code classes (#4 twice..). His philosophy does work... but then again.... Since I did the Freddie Spencer 3 Day Pro School this year, I have more than enough to work on...
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Re: (jayhunter)

Well,a new bike of mine (not Ducati) has a 52" wheelbase and 21 degree head angle.I've had a hard time,we'll say,on a left hander i'm pushing and the effort is hard.I've tried letting off the pushing pressure and the bike will FALL into the corner a lot easier.I'm not a great rider but i find i'm fighting too much while pushing. So is countersteering a good thing or not?
 
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Discussion Starter #18
Re: (ducxl)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ducxl »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well,a new bike of mine (not Ducati) has a 52" wheelbase and 21 degree head angle.I've had a hard time,we'll say,on a left hander i'm pushing and the effort is hard.I've tried letting off the pushing pressure and the bike will FALL into the corner a lot easier.I'm not a great rider but i find i'm fighting too much while pushing. So is countersteering a good thing or not?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's a MAJOR misconception about countersteering. Countersteering refers to the INITIAL input into the bars, in order to create the lean. To go from upright to leaned over, quickly, you steer in the opposite direction of the turn - countersteering - for JUST A MOMENT. That's the critical thing.

Once you achieve your desired lean angle, the bike does, in fact, turn in the direction of the turn. Meaning, in the middle of a left-hand turn the bars are actually turned slightly to the left. And I do mean slightly. Like, a degree or two at the most.

To lean over further, you give it a little more push on the inside bar. To stand it up, push the outside bar (or pull the inside bar, which is the same damn thing because as I said before, they are connected to each other).

I have no idea why your bike - c'mon, you can admit it's a Buell - wants to stand up when you push the inside bar. If it's really "falling in" when you release pressure on the inside bar, it sounds to me like a geometry problem. You might try raising the front ride height, or lowering the rear if that's an option. If the rear is too high compared to the front, you'll have a tendency to "tuck" the front, which is what it sounds like you're doing...
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Re: (AZ Scott)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AZ Scott »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I have no idea why your bike - c'mon, you can admit it's a Buell - wants to stand up when you push the inside bar.</TD></TR></TABLE>


It does it to be different, Eric B. likes it that way
 
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Discussion Starter #20
Re: Push or pull to turn? (Mental998)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mental998 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pull.</TD></TR></TABLE>

BANG,BANG ...


oh ... sorry. Thought it was a trap shoot

Push.
Loose arms, ribs on the tank, head down - arse up

 
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