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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I thought I'd never have to write this kind of thread, my 02 has been bullet-broof from ownership w/ 2k miles to now w/ 17k and I love this bike.

I recently did a lot of work on her, swapping lots of parts, mostly plastic from a minor crash, but also did some other small mods. The bike has SATO banzai's & PCIII w/ Sato map, flapper mod and ran flawlessly up until the crash. Here is a simple time line, hoping someone more experienced or maybe a new set of eyes can suggest a potential problem.

Oct 09- minor 20mph crash to front end, flipped over & landed on right side, cracked upper cowl, cracked air duct, bent rear stay, snapped aluminum weight in throtttle side handle-bar, snapped right footpeg & brake, minor scratches etc.
Winter-pulled all parts, almost full tank of gas but did NOT stabilize fuel or remove battery, bike sat for 8 months...i know bad bad!:(
July/Aug-began replacing plastic, small parts etc., battery was almost at 12V(1yr old), hardly needed charging so tried starting bike, full choke & turned over easily but didn't fire, tried several times but no joy, removed plugs & gently cleaned them (torqued right?) still no joy, twisted throttle 1/4 turn and fired up immediately, idled fine and got up to temp fine.

Finished swapping out rear stay, replaced old undertail with OEM fender and most plugs & PCIII did NOT need disconnecting, re-attached everything without any problems. With a new OEM air duct I completely removed the flapper valve per the ROGUE mod directions, but instead of replacing the diaphragm, I cut off the bottom rod flush. Removed the solenoid valve, connector, and vacuum tank and plugged the only remaining vacuum hose. Had to remove Sato cans of course and cleaned off old rtv sealant between pipes, loosened mid-pipes too, to allow for easier line up of pipes, cans and brackets. Re applied rtv between mid-pipe & cans but probably didn't let it set the required 10min. Started bike easily, no problems except a higher than norm idle (1500), took out for short test ride, seemed fine, exhaust note was louder than I remembered but normal, on return, idle was still high but didn't alter. Next day rode bike 30 miles on hwy, temps were avg. 190-200, but exhaust at higher rpms sounded burbled and slight loss of power, got into Boston traffic, temps climbed to 220-224, normal for mine, but still idle @ 1500! In 1st & 2nd gear @ low rpms, seemed fine. On way home, same thing, cruising at 70-80mph in 6th as I rolled on the throttle, burbling sound and loss of power.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! :notworthy
 

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Pinched fuel line?

Sorry to hear about your crash & problems...

Hey biltforspeed,
FIRST thing I'd check, is to make SURE You didn't pinch\kinck the fuel line.... "Fuel line" Could be in a position, where she'll run OK low to mid range, right up until You demand more of her, twisting the LOUD Handle to go faster... :woot:
It is a Possible problem.
1 other thing I'd TEST after checking the fuel line, and test ride after IF fuel line isn't the problem...? Then I'd try this:> disconnect the Power Commander and try running down the road with OEM set-up..:twocents

Other then that, the Idle:... is to just twist the knob on the right side of engine, right behind the fairing, turn clock wise = faster, counterclock wise= slower engine idle.;)


I Hope this Helps,...?


Peace Jeff
 

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sounds like you may have your high idle knob slightly pulled out? another possibility is that you may have jarred your throttle bodies during the crash and have caused a slight vacuum leak (or could have a vac leak from your pair mod) that is causing high idle and lean conditions during operation...


check your high idle first and then look for vac leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Okay, thanks for the ideas. I will lower the idle today, reason I hadn't given it a lot of attention was I didn't think it was a major issue concerning the loss of power and barbled exhaust, and thought it would settle on it's own and I'll check the fuel line and vacuum leak. I have not done the pair mod, only the flapper removal.

Wibbly, any ideas on how to diagnose a vacuum leak if I did jar the throttle bodies? I will try disconnecting the PC, was wondering if there were any adjustments that can be made on the PC "box" itself, there are the three rpm range buttons???

Also thought maybe the cause would be related to exhaust leakage, improper torque on spark plugs, fouled plugs or maybe damaged from cleaning them, poor fuel quality, flapper vacuum leak, etc.

Thanks again!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just a quick update on my RC issues, thanks again to Maverick & Wibbly for your suggestions. Bike is running slightly better but still not 100% or the same as last yr.

Checked the fuel lines, they look to be fine but it seems that it would be difficult for them to pinch due to their smooth routing and attach points. I lifted the tank many times and they all fall back into their proper place. I lowered the idle, purrs @ 1100rpm now. Gone through two tanks of gas and added a few oz of Redline injector cleaner to help with the "older" fuel left in over the winter. Ordered two new NGK plugs, putting in today...I think I may have damaged the old ones when "lightly" cleaning them, because they are so sensitive, will update again after riding it. Could not find any vacuum leaks, never did the PAIR mod (maybe soon) but bike ran amazingly well as soon as I installed the Sato Banzai's and the PCIIIr, so ?

Did some reading on Rogue website about the ECU and the different windows where mapping changes due to temp increases creating a richer A/F ratio, and have definitely noticed the bike responds better in different temperature windows, so now I'm wondering if somehow the map has been "cleared" from the PCIII or needs re-setting??? Bought the Sato's & PCIII from Kneedraggers and they installed the original map. I tried downloading the zipfile satobanzai map on Rogue but my Windows does not recognize the file, anyone know how & where else to get one?
 

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You are quite Welcome,

Where and how much did you pay for your spark plugs?

I order (when they're not in stock) plugs from Advance Auto, $9.40 a plug.


About your map in the Power Commander,.. from what I've heard, it isn't supposed to change.. BUT from what I have experience with (Thanks TROY).. reloading the map I had, Helped clear my issue.

As far as getting the map(s)... it's the .dyj at the end of the map info., that needs to be changed... or something like that.. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey Mav, thanks again for all your help, I bought the plugs at hondapartspitstop.com and they were $12, which is not a great price but I was ordering the rear seat panel parts and had them throw in the 2 plugs hoping the new ones would help cure my ailing RC.

Put them in yesterday and rode to work in HOT afternoon temps and it was okay, still doesn't sound "normal". Then rode home @ midnight in much cooler temps, bike was running 178-190 and still wasn't sounding right, hard to describe, it has power but the exhaust is still making the "bla bla bla bla", like there is a leak, instead of that smooth P-51 sound that I had when I first installed the Sato's.

I started another thread on error codes, wondering if my bike is producing one or a few and need to know how to read them. This is frustrating as hell!! :banghead
 

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Mmm , this has piqued my curiosity but so tough to diagnose after a crash . Did you follow wibbly's suggestion and check TB's for bad sealing 'cause it could be a vacuum leak ? Did you check that the fast idle isn't on even when the knob is in ? How about an exhaust leak ? Clogged fuel filter ? Fuel injector damage or bad 'e' connection , as your description of a loss of power sounds like fuel starvation ? Can you replicate the "burbling" in neutral ? Do you hear this sound only when you release the throttle at speed (so PAIR) or when climbing the tach , and always at the same rpm ? Does the engine rev as quickly as before the crash ? The easy stuff : strong battery , with tight connections , (for PC also.)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Well Nomo you are definitely asking the right questions and have introduced some new possibilities, and I really appreciate you taking the time & effort to "troubleshoot" my dilema :clapper

I did not check the TB's for a vacuum leak, not really sure what to look for besides the obvious loose hose, but I should, maybe a simple inspection will show something significant.

The fast idle? Is this different from the knob/cable on right side under fairing? I lowered the "idle" down to 1100, but oddly enough last night on my way home sitting at a traffic light after riding for 20 min, the idle started creeping up by itself to approx 1700-1800, never happened before. Didn't happen the rest of the way home???

I will check for exhaust leaks at the manifiold, the Sato's are good & tight connections with clear RTV added.

Fuel filter!!! Hmm did not think of this, never been changed either, why I have never even thought of this, stupid! Just checked the owners manual, there is NO mention of the filter in the maintenance schedule section? Maybe the crash jarred something? Where is it located?

Difficult to say if I can replicate the "burble" in neutral, exhaust note sounds the same from idle up to 6000 rpm, but I think it worsens slightly at the higher rpms, maybe because I'm expecting the surge of power mixed with a crisper exhaust note? As for hearing the burble when releasing throttle at speed, it's average and about the same as last year when I first installed the Sato's & PCIIIr, so I believe the PAIR is not part of the problem. It is definitely during the climbing tach and at the same rpm's.

As for the engine reving as quickly as before the crash, that is a good question. The only damage I noticed and fixed was to the weight inside the handlebar, it had snapped at the bar-end so I replaced the weight, the rubbers, clip, and the bar end. I re-positioned the grip farther up the throttle pvc sleeve and thought it might be rubbing, causing a slight resistance twisitng the throttle???

I will let you know what I find asap, thanks again!
Boz
 

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The fast idle knob is on the left side just peeking out from behind the fairing . Make sure it's not engaging by itself as it's only used for starting a cold engine. The fuel filter is attached to the fuel pump inside the tank . I doubt that the filter is clogged at 17K but possible depending on the cleanness of the gas you've used . Oh , since we're throwing out ideas , could your "feeling" of power loss and "burble" be the clutch slipping ?
 

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The very first thing you need to do is check your battery connections!

Make absolutely 100% sure they are both tight. I mean put a 10mm wrench on them & MAKE SURE. If they are even just slightly loose from completely tight then they vibrate at certain rpms and cause a disconnect that causes the bike to hesitate & lose power intermittently

Second part of that is looked for pinched or chafed electrical wires running past the tank or to the tail etc. I've seen more than a few incidents where the exhaust hangers pinched a wire in the tail section exposing the metal wires & then they short out on the subframe or bolt etc causing loss of power.

After that vacuum lines, fuel hoses and so on
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well everyone can start laughing, mechanical error on my part :banghead That's why I was asking for another "set of eyes", so I tore down the bike for the umpteenth time to start doing exactly what all you wise men know needs to be done, and lo and behold I found the culprit, well I'm 99% sure. Noticed the two vacuum hoses hanging down where they used to be attached to the vacuum tank, both unplugged!:(

When I did the flapper valve mod originally after I bought the bike, I just disconnected the vacuum hose to the diaphragm and plugged it. But after the crash and replacing the air duct I went the whole way and completely removed everything, the solenoid valve, vacuum tank, connector etc, but mistakingly plugged the vacuum hose from the solenoid valve to the vacuum tank, both of which are now removed, and forgot to plug the vacuum hose to the throttle bodies!

I will remedy the problem this afternoon and respond with the results so maybe someone else can read & learn from my mistake and not make it twice.

LDH I did exactly what you suggested and glad I did THANKS, battery connections were good, but found a tear in the cloth sheathing for the pos. fuse connector, luckily it did its job and the wire was undamaged but I was able to fix & wrap the tear.

Nomo, my fast idle knob as you call it or choke as I call it was fine, and my clutch is perfectly fine...haven't decided if I want to pull the tank yet for the fuel filter, will see if vacuum hose fixes everything!

Thanks again Mav, and Wibbly you win the prize for being first to identify the possible leak! :rockon
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I can finally put this thread to rest, did a long commute to work yesterday and the bike is running fantastic, back to her ol' self!

So the lesson learned here is if you're doing the full flapper valve mod, make sure you disconnect & remove the right vacuum hoses and plug the last one remaining that connects to the throttle bodies. Also helps to strip the bike down completely naked and look for chafed wires and loose connections.

Thanks again to all the helpers, wish we all lived in the same town, I'd buy you all a beer or two :clapper
 

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Great news Boz!

BTW, I may be free for a ride on Thu or Fri, late morning to mid afternoon sometime. I'll give you a shout, weather is looking nice too.
 
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