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This is good column that helps explain why I agree with those who say there is no meaningful difference between Republican and Democrat leadership. Our nation's biggest threat is the out-of-control spending, and the leaders of both parties refuse to address the problem, no matter what they say. Politicians are incapable of solving our biggest problem. So barring a revolution, we're doomed.

Do Not Trust Cornyn or McConnell on Spending Cuts - Exchequer - National Review Online
 

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Meatball's Dad
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I agree, this is exactly why the Tea Party makes sense to so many citizens today. Responsible leadership is in short supply. At the moment, the most irresponsible of us all are in charge of more borrowing and lending without turning a profit.
 

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Britain faces a similar fiscal crisis. But conservaties and liberals came together to do what's right. They both raised taxes and cut spending. Meanwhile, our reps are incapable of giving the other side anything they want, but that's especially true of the Republicants.
 

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Meatball's Dad
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Britain has a large recipient class, so whatever they do, unless they can cut the amount of people on welfare, they're perpetually screwed...like us.
 

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It's always about welfare, isn't it?

Until they/we get out of Iraq/Afghanistan there is no point in discussing welfare at all.

Cut the Pentagon and cut welfare, both at the same time.
 

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Meatball's Dad
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The military is something that has been defined in the US Constitution as a requirement of this government, welfare is not.


I am not a supporter of being the world's police department but I would imagine that we'll bring home our troops either when we've won or when our political leaders determine that we loose like with Korea and Vietnam.

If we are to leave some of the places we occupy to their own devices, then we can cut the military. Then would you make the argument that we're isolationist if we brought home the troops to defend our borders? Probably so.
 

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The Constitution is a great document but without all the other functions and decisions of government the Constitution would be just a nice piece of paper. Government, with all its faults, is what allows us to still have a Constitution.

I don't think we lost either Korea or Vietnam. I think we came to an expedient decision after giving something less than 100%. In either case, I don't think the time and effort was worth it, same with our two current exercises. And FYI, 100% effort is never worth it unless it is at our borders. That's just my opinion. Isolationist is just a term. It doesn't really mean anything to me. We're always going to be involved in all other countries no matter where our military is, but it won't cost an arm and a leg.

This is leading to an Afghanistan thread...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's always about welfare, isn't it?

Until they/we get out of Iraq/Afghanistan there is no point in discussing welfare at all.

Cut the Pentagon and cut welfare, both at the same time.
I agree -- cut both. But your statement ignores that fact that MOST of the Federal budget is already spent on entitlement programs & interest payments -- not wars. We could stop fighting the wars and dismantle most of our foreign bases, but we'd still go broke. The entitlement & interest costs are about to explode. Reasonable projections say those costs will eat up 100% of revenue by 2020. We are doomed, and not because of Iraq and Afghanistan.
:twocents
 

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Reasonable projections say those costs will eat up 100% of revenue by 2020.
I'll believe that when I see it. The wolves are really crying now that a black panther commie is in the White House. Funny how the wolves don't want their social security cut though, isn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'll believe that when I see it. The wolves are really crying now that a black panther commie is in the White House. Funny how the wolves don't want their social security cut though, isn't it?
Area51, this is a direct challenge. Read this article and tell me where you think they are wrong. These are real budget stats straight from your real government. Which means they are optimistic:
The Silent Entitlements Monster: Social Security, Medicare And Interest On The Debt Will Gobble Up Every Single Tax Dollar By 2020

America will be undone by out-of-control spending. And it's not defense spending. We might already be at the point where it's unfixable. Or we might be one administration away from the point where our "leaders" start suggesting a global currency and a worldwide central bank. And you know where it goes from there...
:banghead
 

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Social Security will be gone in fewer than 10 years. It went red this year and it's all downhill from there. Since there is no "trust fund" - the program is over. It was a noble idea for its time (1935) but it's now obsolete and mathematically impossible to sustain. The only people who will receive any benefit from that program will be those who have no savings, no pension, no investments, and no assets. "Needs testing" will determine who gets SS benefits - and I believe we all know who will be getting the benefits.

Medicare and Medicaid will be continually modified and both will survive, however you and I will not if we're being treated under those programs. And we WILL be treated under those programs like it or not. The only way to make them work, mathematically, is to cut benefits. Good 'ol Sarah Palin was right when she first mentioned "death panels". They're in there, and you and I are going to be the recipients of those panels. You need open heart surgery at age 70? Ain't gonna happen.

At $14 trillion and counting there's NO WAY the USA can pay back its debt. With $1.5 trillion a year added to that debt... you have to be living in la la land to believe anything is going to happen besides restructuring our debt, devaluation of the dollar, intense inflation, and a lower quality of life for the next 20+ years. Oh, and be sure to add a few hundred thousand illegal aliens a year to the mix just for the hell of it.

And all the while this is happening, good 'ol radical Islam is standing in the wings, waiting for the opportunity to step-in and take over. More mosques, more "Ramadan Today" shows on TV, more honor killings in Michigan and Ohio (and spreading), more steps toward sharia law, more Islam-friendly banking, foot washing stations in more and more airports, 5 prayer breaks a day mandated by federal law, and more efforts to comfort Islam and show the world what the USA is all about. Laugh if you will - it's all happening right before your very eyes.

Take a long ride, sip some good wine, have a cigar, spend some of your savings now. Live life to the fullest because the future is not looking bright.
 

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Meatball's Dad
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Area51, this is a direct challenge. Read this article and tell me where you think they are wrong. These are real budget stats straight from your real government. Which means they are optimistic:
The Silent Entitlements Monster: Social Security, Medicare And Interest On The Debt Will Gobble Up Every Single Tax Dollar By 2020

America will be undone by out-of-control spending. And it's not defense spending. We might already be at the point where it's unfixable. Or we might be one administration away from the point where our "leaders" start suggesting a global currency and a worldwide central bank. And you know where it goes from there...
:banghead
Cricket, cricket....nobody home I guess. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be.
Since Woodrow Wilson, we've been under almost constant assault by the US Government. Its really up to our generation to beat this monster back into its place or face catastrophe as a nation.
 

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Projections are one thing. What actually happens is another. Projections like that happen all the time and then they adjust the budget. How many times have we heard the end is near?

FYI, I heard today the Social Security has a balance of positive 2.5 trillion dollars. Only this year did outflows exceed inflows and that was only because of huge unemployment. Considering that SS funds have been skimmed by Congress for decades, Social Security has been a roaring success. We'll see the retirement age raised a bit and benefits will be lowered about ten percent and then the problem will be over...until a coming election needs another red herring issue to stoke the base.

That's just one item that the wolves have been crying over. If we go down the list I'll bet we'd find similar mistatement of fact by the anti-gov, do-anything-to-wreck-Washington-while-the-other-guy-is-in-charge crowd.

I'm worried about our situation but I'm not worried enough to cry wolf about it. All problems will be fixed in the end.

Except for medical costs. That is the one thing that can ruin our financial solvency. It's time we started letting people die when it's time to die, time to end fraud, time to...whatever. I've got bigger things to worry about.
 

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There is no positive balance. The only value in the Social Security Trust Fund is federal government debt obligations - I.O.U.'s from the US Government. Up until now any excess Social Security deposits have been placed in the General Fund and have been spent.

Social Security is broke. There is no money. It's paying out more than it's taking-in, and that's with 3.1 workers for every one retired person. It used to be 8 workers for each retired person.

Do the math. It can't work. Some roaring success huh? Why do people still not understand this simple concept? How can you just bury your head in the sand and say "all problems will be fixed in the end"? It's easier to do it that way but is that how you operate? Is that how you make personal choices? Is that how you handle your home budget decisions?

It's not about how you "feel", or what you "think" is going to happen. It's not wolves trying to scare you, it's reality staring you straight in the eyes.

Why does reality scare you such that you turn a financial disaster into something that in your mind has been a roaring success? See, this is why we cannot trust the Left to make ANY rational decisions. To them it's all about feelings.
 

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Phuck!:banghead
Okay, mark your calendars.
In ten years take a look at social security and tell me how bankrupt it is. Those debt obligations will be paid. And you can take that to the bank.
 

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It's not a question about IF those obligations will be paid (for a while). They're being paid today. If the program is paying out more than it's taking in, the program is borrowing to make those payments. Capiche?

Of course they'll be paid (for a while) because if they were not paid the program would have to come to an end, and any politician who suggests the end of social security loses his/her chance for reelection.

The problem with this social program, the one that's "a roaring success", is that the only way the US can pay those obligations is to BORROW the money. There is no account anywhere with the "extra" money in it. (Same with Medicare and Medicaid - trillions in debt).

:banghead

The program is bankrupt.

And in this world, when an operation/company has increasing debt and increasing obligations for many years, and at the same time has inadequate revenue and a low probability of increasing that revenue, the operation/company goes bankrupt to protect it from its creditors.

But in the USA, the government doesn't go bankrupt it just keeps borrowing more and more money from itself. That's what's happening right now, and it began the moment the program began paying out more than it's taking in.

Social Security is paying out more than it's taking in. To say it another way: the Social Security Program is broke and will go bankrupt. There is no money in any trust fund or other account to pay the recipients of the program. The revenue from SS taxes is inadequate to pay the current (and future) obligations. Future obligations will dramatically increase as the baby boomers retire. There are not enough workers paying into the program for all those baby boomers to be paid from the program. Mathematically impossible. The program just began paying out more than it's taking in - 6 years earlier than estimated. There is no way to turn it around. There is no way to make up the difference, no way to catch up. It's a program from the 1930's that is totally obsolete today.

Read Bassinators link in Post #10.

This is your "roaring success".
 

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Street and Track Moderator
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I do... This is a complete joke. 38 billion, WTF? What it comes down to is that the Republicans are afraid that they will take the blame for the shutdown as the media was all out of how much "pain" the shutdown was going to cause because those "mean and extreme" republicans don't want to go along with the fiscally irresponsible Democrats. The Republicans afterall, want the elderly to eat catfood and women to not have access to health care (read, taxpayer funded abortion). I really love how the mainstream media was running stories of how the military ( who were still going to get paid) were going to suffer. Has the left ever given a shit about the welfare of those in the military? The only time the left gives the military a second thought is when they can use it as a political tool. It's all bullshit of course but what depresses me is why the right is afraid to take on these disingenous assholes. Why did the right not rub the left's noses in Obamacare, a real diservice to seniors?



Matthew
 

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But your statement ignores that fact that MOST of the Federal budget is already spent on entitlement programs & interest payments -- not wars.
Everything that I was going to add has been stated already but I just wanted to clarify the quote above cuz it's true and God forbid a little factoid like that get's in the way of a few people.
 

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Dr. Carbon
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The Constitution is a great document but without all the other functions and decisions of government the Constitution would be just a nice piece of paper. Government, with all its faults, is what allows us to still have a Constitution.

I don't think we lost either Korea or Vietnam. I think we came to an expedient decision after giving something less than 100%. In either case, I don't think the time and effort was worth it, same with our two current exercises. And FYI, 100% effort is never worth it unless it is at our borders. That's just my opinion. Isolationist is just a term. It doesn't really mean anything to me. We're always going to be involved in all other countries no matter where our military is, but it won't cost an arm and a leg.

This is leading to an Afghanistan thread...
actually the constitution is the law under which the government is supposed to operate and if it did so the nation wouldn't have to be faced with the decisions that it currently is facing. take a look at all the programs and actions that the government has allowed to exist that are in direct violation of the constitution and are the source of the financial and political problems. The founders of the constitution had quite a bit of foresight imo....
 
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