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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, I just joined and wanted to say "Hi". I am in the process of reading through the posts (I'm on page 10 of 38) and there is a lot of great information and people here. I look forward to learning a lot. I just picked up an 02 and have a few questions. I tried searching for what I was looking for but didn't have much luck. So here goes.

1. What is the difference between the PC3R and the PC3USB? From what I gather the USB is the newest version and the one to get. Is this correct or do I need to decide between the R and the USB?

2. What sort of affect will a PC have on an otherwise stock bike? Is it worthwhile with the stock exhaust? I don't plan to change the exhaust any time soon, if at all.

3. This may be a stupid question and hopefully someone can set me straight but here goes. This my first EFI bike and I was surprised to see that it has (and relies heavily on) a choke. I didn't think EFI vehicles had manual chokes. Also, along the same lines, I notice my bike pulls harder when it is cooler out. I am used to this on my other carbed bikes and I understand why they do that, but I didn't think an EFI machine would do that. Shouldn't the FI always be computing the correct mixture depending on the temp?

4. Last but not least, suspension. I have set suspension all set to the stock settings and find the ride to be very teeth jarring on the street. What are the usable ranges of the adjustments for the suspension components? Also, can anyone recommend a starting point to soften it up for some laid back street riding? I can't wait to get this bike to the track but I am afraid that is a little ways in the future and would like to improve my commute a little in the meantime.

If you’ve made it this far before quitting reading I commend you. Hopefully you can shed some light on my questions. Try and not be too hard on me. Oh, and check out the webpage if you feel the need to see a bone stock 02 and the antique it is replacing.
 

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1991zx6 said:
Well, I just joined and wanted to say "Hi". I am in the process of reading through the posts (I'm on page 10 of 38) and there is a lot of great information and people here. I look forward to learning a lot. I just picked up an 02 and have a few questions. I tried searching for what I was looking for but didn't have much luck. So here goes.

1. What is the difference between the PC3R and the PC3USB? From what I gather the USB is the newest version and the one to get. Is this correct or do I need to decide between the R and the USB?

2. What sort of affect will a PC have on an otherwise stock bike? Is it worthwhile with the stock exhaust? I don't plan to change the exhaust any time soon, if at all.

3. This may be a stupid question and hopefully someone can set me straight but here goes. This my first EFI bike and I was surprised to see that it has (and relies heavily on) a choke. I didn't think EFI vehicles had manual chokes. Also, along the same lines, I notice my bike pulls harder when it is cooler out. I am used to this on my other carbed bikes and I understand why they do that, but I didn't think an EFI machine would do that. Shouldn't the FI always be computing the correct mixture depending on the temp?

4. Last but not least, suspension. I have set suspension all set to the stock settings and find the ride to be very teeth jarring on the street. What are the usable ranges of the adjustments for the suspension components? Also, can anyone recommend a starting point to soften it up for some laid back street riding? I can't wait to get this bike to the track but I am afraid that is a little ways in the future and would like to improve my commute a little in the meantime.

If you’ve made it this far before quitting reading I commend you. Hopefully you can shed some light on my questions. Try and not be too hard on me. Oh, and check out the webpage if you feel the need to see a bone stock 02 and the antique it is replacing.
Welcome to the board,Now grab yur ankels and hold on tight as this is the reality of your stock RC. you need $$$$ and time.

1. I dont know but the pc3usb has the interface connector

2.you can tune your fuel map and it will run better.I have never used the choke??

3. cold air = more oxygen.

4.the suspension/the exhaust/the stock map are in need of replacement,because they are SH*T :eek: I know because I've been there.
and all you need to do is listen to people on this board, try to weed out the B.S. and learn what doesn't work and what does.

HEY, OPINIONS ARE LIKE BELLYBUTTONS everybody has one :D And I almost forgot my RC is working very very good $3000.00 time and reasearch can fix this otherwise miserable peice of sh*t :cool: hey Dave where is the two cents icon :confused:
 

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1991zx6 said:
Well, I just joined and wanted to say "Hi". I am in the process of reading through the posts (I'm on page 10 of 38) and there is a lot of great information and people here. I look forward to learning a lot. I just picked up an 02 and have a few questions. I tried searching for what I was looking for but didn't have much luck. So here goes.

1. What is the difference between the PC3R and the PC3USB? From what I gather the USB is the newest version and the one to get. Is this correct or do I need to decide between the R and the USB?

2. What sort of affect will a PC have on an otherwise stock bike? Is it worthwhile with the stock exhaust? I don't plan to change the exhaust any time soon, if at all.

3. This may be a stupid question and hopefully someone can set me straight but here goes. This my first EFI bike and I was surprised to see that it has (and relies heavily on) a choke. I didn't think EFI vehicles had manual chokes. Also, along the same lines, I notice my bike pulls harder when it is cooler out. I am used to this on my other carbed bikes and I understand why they do that, but I didn't think an EFI machine would do that. Shouldn't the FI always be computing the correct mixture depending on the temp?

4. Last but not least, suspension. I have set suspension all set to the stock settings and find the ride to be very teeth jarring on the street. What are the usable ranges of the adjustments for the suspension components? Also, can anyone recommend a starting point to soften it up for some laid back street riding? I can't wait to get this bike to the track but I am afraid that is a little ways in the future and would like to improve my commute a little in the meantime.

If you’ve made it this far before quitting reading I commend you. Hopefully you can shed some light on my questions. Try and not be too hard on me. Oh, and check out the webpage if you feel the need to see a bone stock 02 and the antique it is replacing.
1.) i don't know

2.) changing your MAP will increase HP's, even with stock exhaust. depending on where you live, the stock MAP may be great, or just good based on a lot of facotrs.

3.) although the bike is computer controled EFI, it's a closed loop system. there's no MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor or O2 sensor to monitor incoming air and outgoing exhaust, to make necessary adjustments for performance. the computer's MAP is what determines that. the choke is designed to keep the idle up, until the engine starts to warm up a little. on cars, the computer is in closed loop until it reashes full temp, before going to open loop (info in/adjustments for optimum A/F mixture out). some had a dashpot to keep the idle up and others have a computer program to do it, based on the TPM (Throttle Positioning Sensor) readings.

4.) your suspension depends on your weight. set static sag and rider sag, and start from there. i'm 225 lbs, (after a good shit) and i'm running 1 under full preload in the front, 3 over-stock compression, 3 over-stock damping, 2 under full preload on the rear shock, with 1 over stock on damping and 2 over stock on compression. your results will vary....

read this: (i didn't write it. someone else did, but it's good information)


The first step is setting proper sag. This simply refers to how much the bike 'sags' when you sit on it. Sag is always measured from the fully extended position. Lever the wheel off the ground, measure, sit on the bike and measure again: That's "Rider Sag." "Static Sag" is how much the bike sags all by itself. Putting a zip-tie around one of the fork legs simplifies measurement and can be left in place so you can see how much suspension you are using.

Since damping can/will effect your readings, you should set sag with the damping dialed to fully soft. Be sure and write down your settings so you can return to them when you are done.

You’ll need 2 people to help you do it accurately, but the mechanics of setting sag are simple: One person levers the back of the bike off the ground on the sidestand and front wheel, while a second person measures the total available travel of the swingarm from the axle to whatever part of the bodywork/frame is convenient. It is important that you pick a spot that’s directly above the axle. I like to write an ‘X’ on a piece of masking tape to be sure I’m measuring the same thing every time. Write that number down, as it is your baseline. Then you sit on your bike in your normal riding position, ideally wearing your gear. One helper steadies the bike, while the other repeats the measurement you just made. Subtract the second number from the first, and you’ll have the amount the bike is actually sagging under your weight. Add or subtract spring tension at the shock until you get the number you are looking for. That accomplished, you would then repeat the process for the front forks. As I mentioned above, a zip tie around the swept area simplifies measurements.

For a streetbike, I've found that 40mm up front and 30mm in the rear is a good place to start. Track mavens would/should start around 30/20~25. Since it's the more important, set rider sag first, and then go back and check static sag - The bike *should* sag a little by itself: 5~10mm is good. If you have proper rider sag but no static sag, then you have to wind your springs too tight, and you should install heavier springs. More than 10mm static sag and you should think about going to a lighter spring.

If you want to be really precise, you'll factor in suspension 'stiction' as well. Stiction refers to the amount the suspension sticks because of internal friction. With the bike roughly dialed in, and you sitting in riding position, have a buddy press down on the triple, and release. Measure. Then have him lift UP on the front and allow the bike to settle again. Take the average and use that as your baseline. A 0~5mm difference is considered very good. More than 5~10mm is OK, but you might check your methodology and look for things that might be misaligned. If you're closing on 15mm of stiction or more, you have a real problem and should take your bike to a pro for a rebuild. (But you probably already knew that 'cause your bike handles like crap!!!) Repeat for the rear.

I've had my best luck setting the rear first and then doing the front.

NEAT SAG TRICK: Put your bike into a long fast sweeper on neutral throttle and relax your grip on the bars as much as you dare. The bike will likely make a movement:

If it falls into the turn: You are setup favoring initial turn in over side to side flickability. Add front preload to move to neutral.

If it stands up: You are setup favoring side to side movements over initial turn-in. Remove front preload to more to neutral.

Where you end up with that is rider preference. Note: The movement I'm describing should be slow. If the bike darts one way or the other, then you should head back to the garage and re-check what you've done.

Since doing the job properly takes a couple buddies, it makes sense to do everyone's bike at the same time.


Damping Settings

Once you have set your springs properly, then you can move on to damping. You *did* write down your settings when you set sag, right!?!?! Normally, your owner's manual will have some baseline settings, but if that's not available, you'll have to come up with your own.

I'll start with Rebound: A ballpark 'Guesstimate' is shove down on the front while holding the brake and allow the bike to spring back on it's own - It should rise back up, but make NO additional movement. If it does, add rebound. If it does not, take rebound away until it does, then add back just enough to stop the excess movement. Rear rebound: Shove down on the back of the bike, no brakes: It should take about 1 second to rise back up.

Compression settings are more open to interpretation. I like JUST enough up front to stop excess diving on the brakes. You'll have to ride to determine that - try 1 turn from full soft and play from there. You'll want to balance the front and rear, though - Bounce lightly and heavily on the bike with both brakes on and have a buddy stand off to the side watching you. Interfere with the bike's movement as little as you possibly can: Your buddy is watching that both ends of the bike rise and fall together.

VERY IMPORTANT - Suspension tuning is an iterative process, meaning that 1) as you make changes, the changes you make may require to tweak a little more, 2) As you progress as a rider, your damping requirements will change (generally stiffer the more aggressively you ride), and 3) Riding in different situations requires different settings: Most obviously one setup for the street and another for trackdays. Even then, as you improve, your trackday settings will likely change as well. What works when you're running 1:55's may not control the bike properly when you up the pace to 1:53’s.

This little fact of life means that it is very important to keep track of your suspension settings and what changes you make over time. That will ensure you can play around with different setups and still be able to return to where the bike was before should you need to. Those who may be REALLY serious would also add columns to their notebook about the specific results the changes they made gave them. That's not necessary for most riders, though. But DEFINITELY keep a little notebook - You won't remember your settings.

GENERAL RULES

1) Once proper spring sag has been set, and you have damping you can live with: Put the bike into a long, fast sweeper on neutral throttle and relax grip on the bars as much as you dare. If the bike stands up, decrease front spring/increase rear spring/height to bring bike to neutral. If the bike falls in, do the reverse

2) SLIGHTLY harder rear compression helps the bike to turn in faster

3) AFTER you have the bike to the point where it does nothing bad, look to balance all the damping so the ends work together. It should only take a click or two

4) If the wheel is bouncing and you cannot really feel it through the bars/bike - That's a lack of rebound. If you *can* feel it through the bars/bike, Too much compression

5) If the problem occurs from steer-in to midpoint, then change the front. Mid-point to exit, start with the rear.

6) If the bike is too high in front, it will take more effort to steer it and you will have to hold it down. Raise your forks in the triples

7) If the bike is too low in front, it will steer dramatically and try and drive off the inside of the track. It will be unstable all the way through the turn. Lower your forks in the triples.

If the swingarm is too flat, the bike will squat too much. The bike will try and run wide as you exit the corner. The front end will feel light and try to dance around. Add ride height in rear/lengthen shock absorber

9) If the swingarm angle is too steep, then the bike will not squat enough, and you will experience poor traction: Wheelspin on corner exits. Lower rear height/shorten shock

10) If the bike isn't acting balanced, adjust it until is does - REGARDLESS of your initial adjustments. Balance should be maintained whether you bounce lightly or with great force.

Front Rebound

TOO MUCH REBOUND (FRONT)

- Front end feels 'Locked Up,' Harsh Ride Quality

- Suspension packs in and fails to return – Typically after the first bump, the bike will skip over following bumps and want to tuck the front

- Bike prone to Headshake and Tankslapping upon hard acceleration



TOO LITTLE REBOUND (FRONT)

- Forks are plush, but increasing speed causes loss of control and traction

- Bike wallows and tends to RUN WIDE EXITING turns

- Front end CHATTER, loss of Traction

- Slow to recover on Aggressive Input

- Wheel KICKS BACK on large bumps


Front Compression

TOO MUCH COMPRESSION (FRONT)

- Front End tends to ride high through corners, causing the bike to steer wide

- Suspension is harsh over small bumps

- Front end Chatter on corner entry

- Bumps and ripples are felt directly

- Suspension is generally harsh, and gets worse on braking and entering turns

- Forks don't use enough suspension to properly absorb bumps

- Forks never seem to bottom out, even on large hits

- General lack of traction can cause overheating tires


TOO LITTLE COMPRESSION (FRONT)

- Front end DIVES SEVERELY

- Front feels Soft or Vague

- Bottoms out on medium-sized bumps

- *Clunk* can be heard upon bottoming


TOO MUCH REBOUND (REAR)

- Wheel tends to hop in turns with small bumps

- Wheel skips too much when braking on rippled pavement. Does not develop good braking power

- Poor rear traction when accelerating over small bumps or rippled pavement


Shock may 'Pack Down' - Too much damping keeps the wheel from extending enough before the next

- Suspension Gets harsh over medium or large rolling-type bumps at speed

- The first few don't feel bad, but after that the suspension gets harsh and starts jumping around

- Rear and can Pack In under acceleration, causing the bike to run wide under power

- Rear "Swims" under hard braking


TOO LITTLE REBOUND (REAR)

- Bike wallows when exiting corners or in long rolling dips in sweepers

- Bike feels soft or vague

- Rear pogo or chatter on corner exits, general loss of traction, and tire overheating

Rear Compression

TOO MUCH COMPRESSION (Rear)

- Suspension seems rigid, instead of absorbing

- Suspension is harsh over small bumps

- Wheel skips when braking hard on rippled surfaces

- Very little squat - Loss of traction/sliding

- Tire overheating

- Suspension is harsh over pavement changes

- Shock stays too rigid and doesn't use enough travel to absorb bumps

- Shock rarely or never seems to bottom out – Even on the biggest bumps

- Bike Kicks on large bumps


TOO LITTLE COMPRESSION (REAR)

- Shock bottoms out on Medium-sized bumps

- Rear squats under acceleration

- Bike doesn't want to turn upon corner entry

- Excessive Squat under power – UNDERSTEER
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Gee wingnut, that is a pretty dismal outlook. Hopefully I can live with this POS in stock form for a little while anyway. I kind of like it actually. :eek:

Rigor, that is a lot of good info. You just planned my Saturday afternoon. :)

Any more insight into the PC differences and any advantages to be had with stock exhaust? It is shearly an HP thing? Or are there other benefits to a PC?
 

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Word on the street is that the PCIIIR is going in the trash bin... Dynojet has made some software change to the usb to make it operate in a similar manner as the R model... Check out Dynojet's web http://www.powercommander.com/... :rockon :rockon :rockon
 

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just enjoy it

Ride it as is for a while, you are allready finding the weaknesses as far as how it feels to you. I suggest going to RC51.org

Take advantage of the free mods section.

I might suggest throwing a re-gear at the bike with the 15/41 being quite good.

Feel free to try out my site and shoot me any questions you may have.

welcome aboard
 

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1991zx6 said:
Gee wingnut, that is a pretty dismal outlook. Hopefully I can live with this POS in stock form for a little while anyway. I kind of like it actually.


Rigor, that is a lot of good info. You just planned my Saturday afternoon.


Any more insight into the PC differences and any advantages to be had with stock exhaust? It is shearly an HP thing? Or are there other benefits to a PC?
Hey, sorry man I wasn't rippin' on your bike. But if you get the chance to ride one with the forks revalved and a good rear shock that is set up for your weight you will agree. What blows me away about the ohlins set-up (whitch I've only had for two weeks) is the fact that my range has increased expodentially my teeth don't chatter and the seat is well not comfortable ,but I'm not looking to replace it anymore.Honda has to make the suspension work for a 100# girl or a 300# guy and the travel is very limited.(there that wasn't too dismal)


about the pc in my opinion unless you are way up on compression with hrc parts in your motor and like the smell of race gas there is no need to advance the curve.

You can get free H.P. by removing the soft limiter wire,but I'm almost never wound out 'cause these are a blast at any rpm.

What is important to me is crisp linear horsepower and the aftermarket pipes with the correct air/fuel make this motor the best it can be (with stock internals)

OH YA, I Almost forgot the sound is unreal Birds drop from trees, babies in strollers cry, car alarms don't stand a chance and It truly sounds like a merlin radial aircraft engine:rockon
 

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1991zx6 said:
1. What is the difference between the PC3R and the PC3USB?

2. What sort of affect will a PC have on an otherwise stock bike? Is it worthwhile with the stock exhaust? I don't plan to change the exhaust any time soon, if at all.

3. This may be a stupid question and hopefully someone can set me straight but here goes. This my first EFI bike and I was surprised to see that it has (and relies heavily on) a choke. I didn't think EFI vehicles had manual chokes. Also, along the same lines, I notice my bike pulls harder when it is cooler out. I am used to this on my other carbed bikes and I understand why they do that, but I didn't think an EFI machine would do that. Shouldn't the FI always be computing the correct mixture depending on the temp?

4. Last but not least, suspension. I have set suspension all set to the stock settings and find the ride to be very teeth jarring on the street. What are the usable ranges of the adjustments for the suspension components? Also, can anyone recommend a starting point to soften it up for some laid back street riding? I can't wait to get this bike to the track but I am afraid that is a little ways in the future and would like to improve my commute a little in the meantime.

If you’ve made it this far before quitting reading I commend you. Hopefully you can shed some light on my questions. Try and not be too hard on me. Oh, and check out the webpage if you feel the need to see a bone stock 02 and the antique it is replacing.
1. Get the USB. http://www.powercommander.com/featversions.shtml

2. Also makes the power delivery smoother with the Dan Kyle map making the bike easier to ride.

3. I believe it's just a fast idle to help you warm up the bike.

4. I'm no suspension expert, but I don't agree with some of those things in that long post on suspension set up. A couple of things I remember -- using preload to adjust geometry issues?!?! Using front end dive to decide what compression damping to set to?!?!
 

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Welcome!

3) The manual choke is a very simple mechanism. The choke all it does is allow a very small amount of air to in the throttle bodies in orther to raise the idle, it has no connection to the ECU. The ECU on the other hand monitors barometric pressure, intake air temperature, and water temperature(engine temp). The ECU, by monitoring the water temp, enriches the mixture at low engine temperatures and also at high temp(you can read about this on rc51.org. In addition to a preset fuel map, the ECU adjust the mixture based on enviromental condition by monitoring the intake air temp and the barometric pressure. Using this to variables the ECU calculates air density and adjust the mixture.

my 2 cents
 
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