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Amateur PiG Wrestler
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys,
Been a while... Here's my deal (after using the search feature of course),

Upgraded the suspension recently and did my 1st TD with it and it rocks. BUT I really had to force the pig into the turns, much more than with the stock set up.

Story: My rear stock shock was failing and getting weird tire wear patterns. Now running Penske in the rear with the shim, but noticed my mechanic put in a shim closer to 10mm, not 5. In the front I have about 10mm of tube showing above the triple clamp.

In the turns yesterday, the steering wasn't neutral at all. Once you started the turn, the bars wanted to turn in on you, so I had to apply way too much counter steer to get the line. Had a guru take it out as well, he didn't even finish 1 lap and came back in with the same issues.

I'm looking to fix this issue by doing the following:
1.) Pull the 10mm shim and replace with a 4-5mm. Need to do this because I'm reaching for the ground with my toes the way it is now, 5' 6" and 165 with gear.

2.) Leave the front fork height as is. (Mechanic suggested raising the front but the bike is too tall already, I need to get the seat down some).

3.) Change the rounder Power Pros to the Power 1s to get a sharper tire angle.

I rode my buddy's Duc at the end of the day and it was near effortless going into the turns and I didn't have to "muscle" the bike around going into turns...

Any advice/suggestions are appreciated... Cheers, DReaux
 

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For your turn-in problems.

I would also take out the 10mm shims for something smaller but leave the 10mm showing on the front forks.

Change one thing at a time.

If it is still too tall, take your seat to any Car interior place they can lower and recover the seat for you.
 

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Don't know if it can be of any help to you but I had similar issues with my bike. I had the rear jacked up by roughly 9mm (the WP unit is 5mm longer than OE, plus I increased rear ride height by another 4mm) and I had dropped the forks through the bars by about 5mm (cannot remember the exact value).
The bike was really "jumpy" and understeered a lot, especially on understeer-prone Michelin Pilot Power 2CT.
First thing I did was taking back the the front back to stock. It helped a lot, but the problem was finally solved when I found a pristine Ohlins shock in the local classified at a great price. I setted up the Ohlins to give me just 4-5mm ride height over stock and, pronto!, the bike started to behave as I wanted.
I am not an aggressive rider and I prefer a touch more stability... :eek:

I also seem to recall the Penske shock is considerably longer than OE so it maybe worth taking it off and measuring exactly how much ride height it adds by itself before deciding which shims to use at the rear.
 

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Just making an observation... I've never quite understood why people pursue other brands of suspension when the best if more than obvious. The Ohlins stuff just simply works and there are so many RC51 owners using them that every set-up trick and geometry number you ever need to know has already been sorted out & is there for the asking. Additionally with the Ohlins you get the ability to install an aftermarket linkage to alter the rising rate of the swingarm and it actually be a beneficial mod.
 

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1) The Penske has adjustable height - no need for a shim.
2) You said you had to "force the pig into the turns", which would indicate a resistance to turn-in. Then you said the "bars would turn in on you", which I don't understand (falls into the turn?). Then you said you had to apply excess countersteering to maintain the line. So, if it doesn't want to initiate a turn, lowering the front a bit and/or raising the rear will help. If it doesn't want to maintain the turn, that could mean a lot of things - too much throttle, too little rebound on the front, too little compression on the rear, rear spring too light, front springs too heavy, etc.

In any case, if it is too hard to turn in, lowering the rear will make it worse.

Eric
 

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Just making an observation... I've never quite understood why people pursue other brands of suspension when the best if more than obvious. The Ohlins stuff just simply works and there are so many RC51 owners using them that every set-up trick and geometry number you ever need to know has already been sorted out & is there for the asking. Additionally with the Ohlins you get the ability to install an aftermarket linkage to alter the rising rate of the swingarm and it actually be a beneficial mod.
Cost sometimes paying for the "best" isn't an option. And people have had good luck with the other brands. but any suspension changes are trial and error. more than just a bolt on and go. To expect bolt on perfection is absurd even using Ohlins stuff. And what works for one person isn't gonna work for you.
To respond to a thread with Ditch your "shit" suspension and buy Ohlins puts you in the same class as mark(not bagging on him) when it comes to pushing your product. (yes i agree Ohlins is the best out there just the wrong way to push it)
 

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I'm not doing anything different than I did before I started selling motorcycle parts.

Funny how as soon as a person shifts career choices that his prior opinions based on years & years of testing experience all of the sudden are meaningless.
 

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Not saying that at all. I am sure you know a ton about about Suspension set-up.

But with this Knowledge make a suggestion on set-up then try and get him to upgrade.
"Not just Buy Ohilins because that is the only way to fix it right." Attitude.
 

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Not saying that at all. I am sure you know a ton about about Suspension set-up.

But with this Knowledge make a suggestion on set-up then try and get him to upgrade.
"Not just Buy Ohilins because that is the only way to fix it right." Attitude.

His solution is to ride the bike himself & make small geometry adjustments until the bike is steering neutral again. Again if he had an Ohlins myself or a myriad of other users on this site could easily tell him some settings to get him VERY close to perfect knowing nothing more than his tire size & whether or not he had a linkage installed or not. With the Penske you will find a HUGE disparity of theories on how to get the bike set-up properly from geometry to sag settings everything is different with a Penske.

The Penske is a good shock I am not refuting that. Tons better than stock, it just doesn't work like the Ohlins which is golden right out of the box :)
 

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1) The Penske has adjustable height - no need for a shim.
2) You said you had to "force the pig into the turns", which would indicate a resistance to turn-in. Then you said the "bars would turn in on you", which I don't understand (falls into the turn?). Then you said you had to apply excess countersteering to maintain the line. So, if it doesn't want to initiate a turn, lowering the front a bit and/or raising the rear will help. If it doesn't want to maintain the turn, that could mean a lot of things - too much throttle, too little rebound on the front, too little compression on the rear, rear spring too light, front springs too heavy, etc.

In any case, if it is too hard to turn in, lowering the rear will make it worse.

Eric
I was thinking the same thing. Can you clear up what "bars would turn in on you" means? I've got a Penske rear, and it took loads of effort to turn the bike, until I rose the rear end AND dropped the front, using 2ct's. She turns much quicker now, still some effort though, but I'm chalking that up to the fact that the RC is a dinosaur compared to the modern liter bikes, and the new 600's...
 

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Ultimately in a constant radius turn you should be able to let go of the handlebars and the bike will finish the turn on its own. If you have having to put pressure on the bars to keep the bike either leaned over or from trying to stand up on you then you have a geometry problem. The second part of that equation that you have to balance is coming out of the turns on the gas as you do not want the bike to try to push you wide on exit. Those two things are always a compromise, but most riders will give up some accuracy on the entry if they can get the precision and drive on the way out.
 

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His solution is to ride the bike himself & make small geometry adjustments until the bike is steering neutral again. Again if he had an Ohlins myself or a myriad of other users on this site could easily tell him some settings to get him VERY close to perfect knowing nothing more than his tire size & whether or not he had a linkage installed or not. With the Penske you will find a HUGE disparity of theories on how to get the bike set-up properly from geometry to sag settings everything is different with a Penske.

The Penske is a good shock I am not refuting that. Tons better than stock, it just doesn't work like the Ohlins which is golden right out of the box :)
Ummm I had to adjust rear ride heigth down four turns to one thread showing for a taller tire:rolleyes: P.P 180-55 with a link... Lee why don't you take my bike back to back around Brainerd tar snakes stutter bumps and midwest asphault dissapear there is so much more to think about than suspension settings when you are at speed , what Mike is trying to say is true !!! the shit is golden and everyone else is chasing set-up.
 

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It just sucks the Ohilins stuff is so damn spendy... I am sure it is "Golden" just look at it.

But the penske should be able to be close to the ohilins once he gets his set-up right.
 

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It just sucks the Ohilins stuff is so damn spendy... I am sure it is "Golden" just look at it.

But the penske should be able to be close to the ohilins once he gets his set-up right.
How expensive was chasing "SKOTTIES" set-up ???

Clip-ons levers stuff like that...

when it's right it feels like this :D
 

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The correct answer is no. What do I win?


Nothing, but it sure goes a long way towards explaining why the Ohlins shocks work so much better in a broader range of conditions including with the aftermarket linear linkage :)

Lots of dynamics happening with the geometry and the shock configuration at all times, even excluding the track surface, rider weight & riding style etc there are still hundreds if not thousands of variables at play. Not the least of which is the rear end going light under braking. Using a shock without a topout spring you will not be able to get on the gas near as fast or as hard as you can using a shock with a topout spring. This of course is the entire reason we put the aftermarket linkages on the RC51.
 

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Nothing, but it sure goes a long way towards explaining why the Ohlins shocks work so much better in a broader range of conditions including with the aftermarket linear linkage :)

Lots of dynamics happening with the geometry and the shock configuration at all times, even excluding the track surface, rider weight & riding style etc there are still hundreds if not thousands of variables at play. Not the least of which is the rear end going light under braking. Using a shock without a topout spring you will not be able to get on the gas near as fast or as hard as you can using a shock with a topout spring. This of course is the entire reason we put the aftermarket linkages on the RC51.
Interesting. I didn't know this but it makes perfect sense.
 
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