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Discussion Starter #1
hi everyone,
i purchased/installed a 57mm termi exhaust on my 2005 999r from section8 bike dealer and ended up w/few problems. they chose to post of this on speedzilla and then e-mailed me of it.
i feel i just got invited to the jerry springer show. i see from all of the responses that everybody has an opinion as to what is right and what is wrong. since i'm the guy w/the 999r and the burned carbon fairing panel, let me throw my 2 cents in.
1)i have been a customer of section8 for quite some time now and have spend quite a few bucks w/them. i drove from an another state to their shop to do this because of their excellent reputation and their pricing. i still have item on order w/them.
2)the bike had about 250 miles on it and was as new.
3)i was told that if it's installed by a dealer then it's warranted. i was also told that there will be a special insulation installed to prevent any heat damage to the bike and that this is something that they include as an extra which does not come w/57mm kit.
facts being:
1)after one short ride i found that the exhaust on the right side was rubbing against the swing arm.
2)a burn through mark started on the left panel which stretches about 10 in. w/one mark clearly showing and getting bigger. one can see the carbon in the damaged area.
after taking the panel off i found:
1)one of the vent pipes that comes down @ the front pipe burned right through.
2)panel was making a direct contact w/exhaust. there was zero clearence. it was rubbing against it. this piece of exhaust is a solid pipe comming down from the front head. there is almost no movement to it as opposed to the pieces by the swing arm which are pieced together and held by springs.
i immediately notified section8 of these problems. i was told that they had a big weekend a head of them and they would get back to me on tuesday. i got an e-mail on thursday from them w/link to speedzilla.
in the mean time i tried this to remedy the problem:
1)i covered half of the exposed pipe to panel w/high heat insulation blanket.
2)i cut four 4in. pieces of high temp. "blue max" spark plug wire and placed it N/S between the insulation on the pipe and the insulation on the fairing. this simple solution seemed to fix the burn-through problem. panel can now be touched w/out your hand getting burnt. it would be almost impossible to safely mount the panel w/out some sort of spacing due to the fact that the pipe is already next to the engine sump and can't be moved any further. anyone who has an experience w/this set up will testify to it.
so, after spending 30 big ones on the bike and having only about 250 miles on it and having a "factory exhaust" mounted by a "ducati" dealer am i really the bad guy in asking for a new panel? if this was your bike would you just bondo over the carbon or put a section8 sticker over it and hope the next possible owner will not notice or mined it or would you do it right and put a new fairing on it? especially if it is "warranted" as promised.
if you have one of these beautifull bikes and are thinking about the 57mm termi please be carefull. your input is appreciated.
thanks,
mr z.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (mr z)

I don't think that there is a debate as to if and why the fairing was damaged, correct?

I also don't think there is a debaste as to section8 having partial responsibility toward finding a solution to the problem, correct?

What the debate is about is if we should privide you with a new panel or repair the existing one, correct?

Bill and I made a decision to offer you the option of having the panel repaired at our expense, to guage the validity of our solution we posted a thread asking for advice. Since you have posted here you must feel that collectively speedzilla has valid points and opinions, if not why would you be engaging in a debate here?

From the feedback I have seen the popular solutions go from fixing the panel to telling you to get lost. I don't think that anyone suggests that we actualy replace the panel. And obviously I am not going to tell you to get lost.

I want to come to an a greement on a proportional solution to the problem, and popular opinion thinks that is to repair the exisisting panel.

I know that if we don't offer you a new panel to replace yours you will not be happy. But I have presented a fair solution to the problem and can not offer you any more than that.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (section8superbike)

The bike is obviously as new with 250 miles.

I believe therefore that a quality painter would be able to exactly colour match the panel to the bike.
I very much doubt that a manufacturer would replace the panel as the bike was released in perfect working order with its standard parts. The option of a 57mm exhaust was at the end of the day YOUR option and you were not forced to have the mod done. I for one would take up Section 8's generous offer, as i can think of some dealers here in the Uk who would not even contemplate even painting the panel!

If it makes the bike as good as new, probably even better, what is the problem?

Personally I would have it painted because whilst Ducati is generally a quality paint from the factory, a replacement factory is very likely to be from a different batch and we all know that each batch of paint mixed may not be 100% identical. Therefore a good painter will be able to mix an exact colour match from your sample provided...
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (mr z)

Mr. Z, your right up the road. Ever go to Full Moon on Sunday?

Taking her to Autobahn for a track day?

On to the matter at hand .......

I note that you made mention of "putting a Section 8 sticker over it", which was just a joke (made by me). It was in jest, I'm sure you know.

Anyway, my two cents is really to stand by what I said. I honestly believe, given the same circumstances and it was my bike, that I wouldn't ask Jason to replace the entire panel. You may not agree with that, but I'm just being honest.

I'm guessing anyone inclined to 'invest' in a 999r knows what time it is, and you must have the understanding that you are playing the non-stock, aftermarket high performance game along with the dealer that installed the bits. Jason can correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact that the item and work is warranted is meant to cover a defective part or a incorrect installation, not the inherent risks of stuffing a larger exhaust where it wasn't designed to go.

I honestly believe you share that risk with Section 8, and a shared solution to the problem is quite fair.

Maybe bring her in to Full Moon on a Sunday morning and you can tell me how strongly you disagree me my opinion over a java.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (section8superbike)

Ask your self, 'If I spent $30,000 on an ultra rare 999R w/ high dollar body panels that was preped and painted from the factory and the panels were damaged by a dealer who installed them. I'm assuming because this is an authorized Ducati dealer who performed the install by an employee of the store and should have knowledge of the exhaust and its components', is than responsible for REPLACING the panel. F**k repairing it! Reparing the part will not maintain the same value as replaceing it w/ a brand new panel preped and painted by the factory. You should have insurance that will cover the costs. If you don't, than you should not be authorized to work on peoples bikes especially of that calibar.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but these days its very rare to find businesses worthy of your hard earned buck. The lack of good customer service in the motorcycle industry, in my opinion is increasing. All you here is excuses and alternative band aids to the problem. Thats just my
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (osofast)

Basically, a brand new bike. With a DP exhaust system bought from, and installed by, a Ducati dealer.

Hum.

Loyalties aside, I don't see how the owner should be asked to share any responsibilities here. DNA, yes. The dealer, perhaps. The owner, no. The question should not have come up.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (infoage1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infoage1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Basically, a brand new bike. With a DP exhaust system bought from, and installed by, a Ducati dealer.

Hum.

Loyalties aside, I don't see how the owner should be asked to share any responsibilities here. DNA, yes. The dealer, perhaps. The owner, no. The question should not have come up.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Completely agree. Repairing the panels is not an acceptable solution.

 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (osofast)

Replacing or repairing the panel will not fix the problem. The problem is the exhaust is too damn BIG! Whatever you do to minimize the damage to the fairing, damage will still be the result. I have a 749r and a 999r with the same exhaust. Those tubes are BIG!! Did I say that already? The installed pipe fits extremely tight. I doubt there is anything that can be done to make sure damage does not happen. Maybe Jet Hot coat the pipe? I have burn through on both my bike's fairing panels. They are the bigger Sharkskinz race panels. I can also speak of the fact that I have over $60,000 invested in (2) motorcycles. Is this bike a museum piece or do you plan on riding it? Look at your fairing by the oil cooler. Are there any rock chips there? Do you plan to replace the fairing everytime a rock chips the paint? A repainted body panel will not diminish the value of your bike in any way. If you want a 100% perfect motorcycle, don't ride it. I may be different. I ride my $30,000+ motorcycle on the track only. I think it's a total waste of a motorcycle to ride exclusively on the street. My 999r has 2200 track miles and has been down twice. My 749r has less than 600 miles and has seen the pavement (4) times. Ouch!


The bottom line: have the body panel repainted and enjoy (ride the shit out of it) that wonderfull motorcycle or put it in your living room and tell all your friends at the coffee shop what you have at home.


Modified by trussdude at 7:25 PM 5/27/2005
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (trussdude)

The dealer should have known the 57mm pipes would touch the panels and there for advise against it if he is worried about burning it. If he was told this before they installed the pipes and the customer went ahead and gave ok, than the customer is fully responsible for any incurred damages. And don't give me that ' its a Ducati race bike and should be at the track and ridden hard bullshit'. Folks are in this sport/hobby for many reasons, some enjoy riding Ducs and just admiring the engineering marval of these machines, the beauty and sound. Others, like my self like to do ride hard and at the track, but if I spend $30,000 on a motorcycle, I'm going to take it easy or park it in the living room
..gotta problem with that. Not everyone here has $60,000 to burn up at the track.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (trussdude)

It seems a "compromize" is in order.The majority of opinoins are for repaint. Yes
you have sunk over 30gs into your bike. Yes there are a few that believe Section8
is not providing "great customer service" But 99.9999% that have had transactions with Section8 agree they provide "Better than great customer servive". I have never used Section8 but have read in 99.9999% of the threads (which are in the thousands) There pricing, service, knowledge, turnaround time-go beyond any other dealer bar none. They seem to not be as concerned about making the most
profit as other dealers. I have read many whom said "Jason hooked me up with better cost on parts and service" I wish there were dealers like his in cali! my 2cents says repaint and ride- Cut Section8 a deal-They seem deserving of it.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (osofast)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by osofast »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The dealer should have known the 57mm pipes would touch the panels and there for advise against it if he is worried about burning it. If he was told this before they installed the pipes and the customer went ahead and gave ok, than the customer is fully responsible for any incurred damages.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Maybe you didn't see the other thread about this same subject here http://speedzilla.zeroforum.co...age=1

here is a small excerpt that may give you a braoder view:

Since the customer spent a lot of time in the service department while the exhaust was being installed I asked my tech who did the work what kind of “warnings” he gave the customer about the install. My tech told the customer that the exhaust is so big that there are clearance problems, pointed out the added heat shield and warned the customer about the fact that as it goes through it’s first few heat cycles it will move around and to watch out for clearance issues that may arise, specifically with the swingarm because this is where we have had the most interference problems. My tech did not specifically say to watch for fairing to pipe clearance issues though, he probably should have.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (section8superbike)

I think it's pretty obvious that we go way out of our way to make fair judgements. I didn't post the other thread so I could get everyone to agree with me. I posted to actualy guage the opinions of my peers. Clearly it is silly to expect everyone to share the same opinion.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (STRATUS749)

I guess sometimes you have to give in and let it be a cost of business


I would have to say this is a 50/50 responsibility factor here. 50 being the owner getting a "Race Only" exhaust installed and 50 on section8 not informing the customer of the problems that may occur.

In the long run these two need to come to a compromise be it repair the panel or get a new one. Only the owner can decide if he will be happy.

If the customer is happy they will gladly continue to do business and section8 will continue to provide outstanding customer service and keep another customer.

taking the bullet sucks I know but I have been down that road too many times my self and its not worth all the headache


oh yeah and Jason your a savy business man and you Will find a way to make up for the loss in just one day if you try
 
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i would like to add this which i failed to mention before. here are the last 3 sentences from their e-mail dated may16th:
"as for the panel getting fixed, i hope that we can repair it for you and stop short of puechasing a new one. that's $1,800 that i don't need to spend right now. of course the choice is yours.
thanks
jason"
i take that as an option to me. either get it fixed or we will get a new one. how do you read this?
thanks
mr z.
 
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Re: hunka hunka burning 999r... (brettmess24)

And one more thing be sure to type up a disclaimer and put it in the showroom along with at the counter and make it bold and visible


WARNING Section8superbikes is not liable for damage to fairings when installing a huge frickin diameter exhaust on YOUR superbike!!1
 
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Re: (mr z)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mr z »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i would like to add this which i failed to mention before. here are the last 3 sentences from their e-mail dated may16th:
"as for the panel getting fixed, i hope that we can repair it for you and stop short of puechasing a new one. that's $1,800 that i don't need to spend right now. of course the choice is yours.
thanks
jason"
i take that as an option to me. either get it fixed or we will get a new one. how do you read this?
thanks
mr z.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I just sent you an email outlining how I will replace the panel.
 
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Re: (section8superbike)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by section8superbike »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I just sent you an email outlining how I will replace the panel.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It goes like this:

You will be happy with this panel.

You will continue to buy parts and service from section8.

You will tell all your friends about us and drop off donuts every friday morning.

Thank You

sorry I had to
 
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Re: (section8superbike)

on the one hand, section8 and jason did nothing wrong. they installed the exh. correctly, apprised the customer (you) of the potential issues with a race system on a street bike and so on; it is not as if an oversight on their part caused the problem.
on the other hand, ducati should not sell this system for a street bike, if the potential for such issues exists b/c it leaves the intermediary (eg, the dealer) open for liability that is not theirs to bear; your point, mr. z., regarding this being a factory part is a reasonable one.
in the future, i think section8 should have a release for damages related to installing of any race part that may cause fit and finish issues on a street bike.
i think what brad black suggested in the other thread is excellent; replace the panel, drill a hole in the old one and be done with it and from now on, either don't install 57mm full systems on street bikes or do so only with a signed release from the owner.
i'd also contact ducati and see if they'd reimburse you (jason) for the 1800 that a new panel's going to cost you because of body damage caused by a factory part.
kudos to you jason for replacing it.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
A tough situation for Section 8. Glad to see it has been resolved with a resemblance of civility in a public forum. This just reinforces my positive opinion of Section 8. If I ever buy another Ducati, they get my business. I'm sure there will be a new 57mm exhaust policy in place --- live and learn. I also agree with the statement made in the previous post. DNA / TERMI needs a warning sheet or waiver in the box of the exhaust.
 
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Re: (Loosecannon)

Dear Jason at Section 8 Superbike

I have an issue i'd like to discuss with you. It seems the 749r that you sold me in January has caused me quite a bit of pain in the last month. I was in a race for second place in the SuperTwins race (Ducati Contingency) when the rear end of the bike broke loose and tossed me up over the bars, about 10 feet in the air and I landed on my ankle, wrists and head. I was unable to continue the race and I've been hobbling around ever since. Can we discuss a settlement? Perhaps you could repair my bike for free, pay my medical bills or talk to Ducati North America about paying me contingency for third place. Or can you replace the confidence I had in my riding ability before that unexpected highside?

I await your response.
 
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