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4,232 Posts
Maybe its time to pick up a CBR and trick it out.
Honda to cut motorcycle prices by 10 years - Hell For Leather
Honda to cut motorcycle prices by 10 years - Hell For Leather
Honda to cut prices to 2000 Prices
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4,805 Posts
Only in Japan from what I read. Boo hoo, I was instantly thinking the 1000rr was in my immediate future until I read the article.
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2,100 Posts
Are they also going to re-release the 2000 MY bikes?
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5,717 Posts
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2,607 Posts
How not to agree? :notworthy
Moving production to Mainland Asia? Using cheaper parts? They got it right: beat the Chinese at their own game. :wacky
Honda has already stared cutting corners and seems more concerned about offering the rock bottom price than something people really would like to pay money for.
There's a reason BMW is laying monthly beating in sales despite offering considerably more expensive bikes. But I guess that reason is lost to Honda bosses.
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6,827 Posts
True... during Laguna Seca a couple of Honda R&D guys were listening
about customers wants and this one wants more Gp inspired V4s... Paul
Venture and Matt Cardenas are employed at Honda R&D research analyst
motorcycle research product planning... according to Paul and Matt Honda
can make 600 I4s for 11K whereas a V4 would cost 17K... that seems high
considering a new Aprilia goes for 17K...
Paul Venture...
Matt Cardenas...
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2,607 Posts
That's true Larry.
Back in the '80s and '90s Honda cost more than other Japanese bikes but they actually offered more: more reliability, better finish, advanced engineering etc. Sales figures seemed to confirm people were willing to pay a premium to have an actually superior bike: sales of bikes fitted with the excellent 52° twin (Transalp, Shadow etc down to the much maligned Revere and NTV) were very, very strong all over over Europe, the CBR600F outsold all competitors combined and the ST1100 and VFR750F gave BMW quite a lot of headaches in the touring department.
Then something happened and they shifted from the best quality/price ratio (even if this meant selling the bike at a premium over competitors) to rock-bottom prices at any cost. That's weird because I don't seem to remember Honda losing sales to cheaper brands. Yamaha started to improve build quality big time staring around 2000 and BMW decided to "get down to it" by going mental and churning out a great bike after another with the Oilhead, Hexhead and Wedge families of engines.
And while Honda has been able to keep a reputation for reliability their sales have suffered from their idea that people should buy what you are giving them and shut the Hell up. If you take scooters out of the picture Yamaha has outsold them all over Europe for years, with Kawasaki coming dangerously close and BMW gaining so much steam as to make all Japanese manufacturers shake in their little geta. Since demographics in Europe dictate a non-expanding market all these other manufacturers took sales away from both Honda and the Italians (especially the once-great Moto Guzzi).
As any of you ridden a CBF600 (if they dare to import that pile of junk to the US?) or a DN01? If so would you buy one? Both bikes exemplify what's wrong with Honda. The first is built to be as cheap as it gets. I would be fine with that if Kawasaki didn't offer much better alternatives (lower running costs, better brakes and suspension, less weight etc) at similar prices. The second is a needlessly overengineered hopeless bike which Honda hoped to push on retirees, born again bikers and scooter nerds. But the former are buying BMW R1200R or F800S, the second are buying similarly priced H-D models (XR1200, 883 etc) and the latter are infatuated with that big fart that is the Yamaha T-Max (but it's selling like hot cakes so am I to argue?).
Back in the '80s and '90s Honda cost more than other Japanese bikes but they actually offered more: more reliability, better finish, advanced engineering etc. Sales figures seemed to confirm people were willing to pay a premium to have an actually superior bike: sales of bikes fitted with the excellent 52° twin (Transalp, Shadow etc down to the much maligned Revere and NTV) were very, very strong all over over Europe, the CBR600F outsold all competitors combined and the ST1100 and VFR750F gave BMW quite a lot of headaches in the touring department.
Then something happened and they shifted from the best quality/price ratio (even if this meant selling the bike at a premium over competitors) to rock-bottom prices at any cost. That's weird because I don't seem to remember Honda losing sales to cheaper brands. Yamaha started to improve build quality big time staring around 2000 and BMW decided to "get down to it" by going mental and churning out a great bike after another with the Oilhead, Hexhead and Wedge families of engines.
And while Honda has been able to keep a reputation for reliability their sales have suffered from their idea that people should buy what you are giving them and shut the Hell up. If you take scooters out of the picture Yamaha has outsold them all over Europe for years, with Kawasaki coming dangerously close and BMW gaining so much steam as to make all Japanese manufacturers shake in their little geta. Since demographics in Europe dictate a non-expanding market all these other manufacturers took sales away from both Honda and the Italians (especially the once-great Moto Guzzi).
As any of you ridden a CBF600 (if they dare to import that pile of junk to the US?) or a DN01? If so would you buy one? Both bikes exemplify what's wrong with Honda. The first is built to be as cheap as it gets. I would be fine with that if Kawasaki didn't offer much better alternatives (lower running costs, better brakes and suspension, less weight etc) at similar prices. The second is a needlessly overengineered hopeless bike which Honda hoped to push on retirees, born again bikers and scooter nerds. But the former are buying BMW R1200R or F800S, the second are buying similarly priced H-D models (XR1200, 883 etc) and the latter are infatuated with that big fart that is the Yamaha T-Max (but it's selling like hot cakes so am I to argue?).
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149 Posts
...ever since mr. honda passed the motorsport division has been drifting along rudderless.
i get the impression current management wants to concentrate on cars and stupid p.r. robots and couldnt give a crap about motorcycles.
i get the impression current management wants to concentrate on cars and stupid p.r. robots and couldnt give a crap about motorcycles.
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4,178 Posts
Sad to see Honda not producing a more dynamic product read: exotica. They still produce an amazing product but it's just not as soulful as Ducati's twin, Kawasaki's and Suzuki's hard-man appeal, Yamaha's better styling or BMW's tech at a similar price point.
I've still got the RC51 jones and the 1st gen CBR1000RR is still sublime but they seem to have gone too refined for their own good.
Problem is, Honda hasn't gotten worse, the others have gotten better for a similar price point.
You still can't go wrong owning a Honda but there are as good and some ways better products out there.
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14,924 Posts
I hope they do or i won't buy another one:banghead
let's be real. Honda has not made a cool inspiring bike since 2000 and b4 that is was 94
whether you bash on larry or the V4 none of Hondas mainline Inlines are bike that have a cult following and are bikes left for dead a few years later, not what i am into. I bought their replacement to the 51 in 2004. While the bike was new and zoomy and i liked the bike i have not really thought about getting another( maybe for a track bike) never mind owning two. I do however ponder 2 51's as well as 2 30's and 2 45's. The new oil burner 08 CBR is a "good" bike but plain and dull IMOthe 30,45,51 were made more then a decade ago and they still are used as a benchmark and reference point, will the new zoomy 2011 CBR be??
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2,607 Posts
This is nothing compared to the bikes Honda bought back from customers to avoid bad rep because they couldn't sort the electronics.The recent VFR recall for metal filings in the engine
There's strong suspicion they sent the VFR1200F out well before it was ready, for what ends is unknown since it was immediately clear that it is an overweight K1200S wannabe and it isn't going to turn the tide in their favor.
This vaguely reminds of that '80s war between Yamaha and Honda to have new models on the showroom as soon as possible and which caused many embarrassing problems (see the Yamaha XZ550 carburetor fiasco and the CX500/CBX550 camchain tensioner of death).
Good memory on the cx cam chain debacle desperate. Since the 60's Honda has a tradition of bad cam chain tensioners. I remember the CB 360 hat had three recalls on it and the CX that had two. I trained my techs in shortcuts and they could do a CX tensioner job in 1.5 hours.
Am I to understand you are not moved by the game-changing offerings that are the DN-01 and Fury? I mean, they are the biggest things to hit the market since the Pacific Coast.....I hope they do or i won't buy another one:banghead
let's be real. Honda has not made a cool inspiring bike since 2000 and b4 that is was 94
the 30,45,51 were made more then a decade ago and they still are used as a benchmark and reference point, will the new zoomy 2011 CBR be??
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14,924 Posts
can am spyder:rockonAm I to understand you are not moved by the game-changing offerings that are the DN-01 and Fury? I mean, they are the biggest things to hit the market since the Pacific Coast.....
While I am by no means ready to rush out and buy one, Can-Am is to be applauded for having the audacity to develop and produce it. Based on what I can see, they are selling quite a few of them too (in fact, they are selling more Spyders in North America than a certain high-profile premium European motorcycle mfr). Not exactly my cup of tea, but I'll take a Spyder over a Fury or DN-01 any day (can't imagine anyone spending hard-earned money on either of those two abberations, or virtually any Harley either for that matter)...
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