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Discussion Starter #1
Following on from my recent post about frame materials and what tube to use to modify a frame, just realized it states in the Duc workshop manual that the frame is built from "ALS450" tubular steel.

My question:
is ALS450? Done the usual searches and come up with zip!

Anybody?

Thanks, Neil.
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (748rheid)

The Italians have a funny way of describing their products. Now, unless they invented a whole new type of steel, ALS is a common way of referring to Alloy Steel, 450 is the makeup of their CrMo tubes, 450 includes
Chromium, Molybdenum, Copper, Manganese, Nickel and very low carbon
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (Monster Man)

OK, well that all makes sense.

Any idea what ALS450 equates to in something I'll actually be able to buy? T45, CrMo 4130 etc etc?

Thanks, Neil
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (748rheid)

ALS450 is not like our CrMo 4130. If it is CrMo at all and I don't think it is, it is rolled and welded seamed tubing equivalent to our mild steel tubing. In other words nothing special. Ducati does use CrMo on some specials homologation bikes and back in the early 851 days but very rarely.
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (908SSP)

OK, Alex you've modded Duc frames right? What did you use?

Thanks, Neil
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (748rheid)

4130 CrMo is definitely a different beast.
It has more carbon content than 450, less Moly, and less Chromium. CrMo 4130 is easier to machine, but compared to 450 has much less corrosion resistance. 450 is a Stainless alloy, and by the looks of it not commonly used in the US, possibly you can find it across the pond. Not sure where you'd be able to buy the exact tubing that you could use in your frame, except from a tweaked frame. Quite honestly, among metal families you can find the closest match. Unless you're Oxy-Gassing with no filler you're introducing a whole new alloy into the mix anyway, making your choice of base material less important.
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (Monster Man)

ALS450
Isn't stainless at least not the stuff Ducati uses. If you want to weld onto your stock frame you can use CrMo tubing use mild steel filler rod. Or you can use mild steel tubing. Ducati frames are around .100 thick and they are welded with a wire feed machine. They have a pronounced seam running down the inside and are usually rusty in there as well.
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (908SSP)

Hmmm, the plot thickens. So basically I'm free to use pretty much anything of the right gauge? It's only the "X" piece between the cylinders I want to alter. I'm not doing this myself and my local fabricators are at a bit of a loss as to what to use, they've even contacted all their steel suppliers who have also never heard of ALS450. They did suggest using T45 though. That's also the stuff Spondon use for their frames and swingarms.

Keep it coming guys, this is all good info!

Thanks again, Neil
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (908SSP)

I am at a loss myself, you know what happens when I ass-u-me. I assumed what they call ALS450 was Alloy steel 450, which is stainless, but that was a leap of faith. T45 would be good because it can be welded without preheating, and doesn't have to be tempered to be strong, both key requirements for small shops (an Oxy torch doesn't cut it for either task).
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (Monster Man)

Believe me the designation doesn't mean anything to me. I just know what I have found by cutting through it and welding to it. It smell like, looks like, taste like mild steel. Tell the guys that are fixing your x brace to use mild steel tubing the size and thickness are probably more important in that context then the exact alloy.
 
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Re: Frames - WTF is ALS450? (908SSP)

Thanks for all your input guys.

I think I'll have them brace the frame, cut out the original "X" piece, measure it and then buy suitably sized T45 - at least I can get that quite easily and I know it'll be more than up to the job.

Thanks again, Neil
 
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