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Discussion Starter #1
Collets: Real World Utility?

The 6000 mile service is coming up on my 900SS and I'm considering aftermarket collets to extend my service interval to 12k in lieu of the standard 6k valve check and adjustment.

My question(s) are: who's using these currently and can comment on their performance; do they, indeed, keep the valves in spec for 12 (or even 16k miles per the website); and, is it a simple installation if I use the new updated collets (those with Dave R & Chris K sell for example?) and how much, if any, additional hours of labor would be required to install them?

My bike's not a race bike and the majority of the information listed on the web regarding these collets is feedback from race teams, etc. and while I understand that race bikes get strained mechanically much harder than an average street bike, I'd like to hear from people who use their bikes to commute, ride at track days, etc. who have personal experience with them.

Seems to me, while the initial expense of getting the collets isn't trivial, I wonder why everyone doesn't install them at the 600mile service. A ducati with a 16k valve interval seems to be a golden egg - what's the catch?

Thank you.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
Quietly and eagerly waiting to read some replies on this. Great post!
 
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Re: Collets: Real World Utility? (hubert)

I wish I could tell you


I have been trying to get my hands on a set and no one has any


I talked with Ducati seattle an hour ago and the set they had was only enough to do seven valves


They seem to be the real deal though


Great question cant wait to hear the feedback sorry for the thread jack
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Once set properly, most 2V streetbikes do not need adjustments. We routinely send our customers off and say "see you in another 10000 miles!". And, the 2V adjustment service isn't very costly anyway. $240 labor here at our shop. Highly modified bikes are a different story and the MBP collets in our 95 hp 750SS racebike has helped us make it through full race seasons with only one adjustment (instead of every other race weekend previously).
 
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Re: (bcmducati)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bcmducati »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Once set properly, most 2V streetbikes do not need adjustments. We routinely send our customers off and say "see you in another 10000 miles!". And, the 2V adjustment service isn't very costly anyway. $240 labor here at our shop. Highly modified bikes are a different story and the MBP collets in our 95 hp 750SS racebike has helped us make it through full race seasons with only one adjustment (instead of every other race weekend previously).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thank you for the reply.

One question though, is how should we (or do you) qualitate and quantify "properly setup"; as in, how do I know my bike's been properly set-up, or how would go about checking? I'm not inclined to do the valve adjustments myself at the moment and even then, I'm not sure I'd know what to look for. (Though I do them on my car myself all the same). I looked over the receipts for my previous 750SS and it needed valves adjusted and a few shims at both the 6k and 12k service.

What I'm getting at is, if the collets equalize the valve train in everyone bike, making it more user friendly, wouldn't the initial investment be worth the added expense?




Modified by hubert at 2:27 PM 3/3/2005
 
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In a built motor, yes, definitely worth the expense. In our experience, in a streetbike, no. They don't make the bike "more user friendly" - 2V bikes are the ultimate "user-friendly" bike to begin with and very easy to work on if you are so inclined. Remember, you could have a shop install the collets wrong and still have problems. It all comes down to the level of expertise of your shop.
 
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Re: (bcmducati)

I've got my 996 stripped to the bone this winter,and my wife assisted me with the closers. It was great fun but,they were spot on as well.I used the process as described by "LT Snyder" and copied his template.I'm just going to re-torque the heads and reassemble with new belts etc..I want a set of collets but,they wouldn't be used often I now know..AT 10,500
 
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Re: (bcmducati)

Exactly what BCM said, and make sure they are purchased from http://www.mbpducati.com and NOT the .ca site. There are parties out there selling couterfit collets that do not work or fit like the real ones.
 
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Re: (bcmducati)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bcmducati »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Once set properly, most 2V streetbikes do not need adjustments. We routinely send our customers off and say "see you in another 10000 miles!". And, the 2V adjustment service isn't very costly anyway. $240 labor here at our shop. Highly modified bikes are a different story and the MBP collets in our 95 hp 750SS racebike has helped us make it through full race seasons with only one adjustment (instead of every other race weekend previously).</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have had the same results with my last 2 Ducs. One or two valves may need adjusting at the 6k tuneup and then it generally holds steady from there.
 
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Re: (bcmducati)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by bcmducati »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">In a built motor, yes, definitely worth the expense. In our experience, in a streetbike, no. They don't make the bike "more user friendly" - 2V bikes are the ultimate "user-friendly" bike to begin with and very easy to work on if you are so inclined. Remember, you could have a shop install the collets wrong and still have problems. It all comes down to the level of expertise of your shop. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks again for your reply.

If you could though, could you elaborate on what you meant by "properly set up"? Is there a way in which you and your shop set the valves that sets them in place for a longer interval; do you run them tighter or looser than reccomended, for example.

Or is it something else, something inherant to the 2V motor tolerances?

I really need to learn how to adjust my valves.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
Get a copy of LT Snyder's 2-V manual (a bargain at $20) and take the voo-doo out of V-due.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
Those two sites look the same. Is one fake? Or am I missing something?
 
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Re: (smakbiam)

Here we go again with the misinformation, innuendo, and out right lies. The
http://www.mbpducati.ca site is the site of Guy Martin founder and owner of MBP and his present associates. He is one of the inventors and the developer of the MBP collets in question. The "other" MBP site is either his old site or the site of his former business relationship in the collet business (or both). Due to some legal mumbo jumbo both parties can use the MBP logo, name. Be assured http://www.mbpducati.ca is Guy Martin and he is selling the latest version of the collets, and there has been on-going development on them. Other reliable sources for the latest collets are JHP in the UK, Chris Kelly in California, and I think BCM as well. Of course any one can purchase from whom they like, but to post NOT to purchase from one party or another just opens a can of worms that has been hashed out here and on other forums before.
 
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Discussion Starter #15
Re: Collets: Real World Utility? (hubert)

Bruce at BCM installed collets on my SS heads when I sent them in for porting and had bigger cams installed. Unfortunately due to a crappy summer I didn't get much over 2000 miles last year on my bike so I can't tell how well they "hold adjustment"
 
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Re: (smakbiam)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smakbiam »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exactly what BCM said, and make sure they are purchased from http://www.mbpducati.com and NOT the .ca site. There are parties out there selling couterfit collets that do not work or fit like the real ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey Mike, Guy asked you to call him so that you two could talk about it. Last I heard, you haven't. What gives? You won't talk to him but you'll keep up the negativity?



You can e-mail him your phone number and a time and he'll call you. That's his normal customer service. Guy Martin of Martin Brickwood Ducati: [email protected]
(Brickwood is his wife's last name)

Best,
Chris


BTW, Guy is working on the THIRD generation of valve retainers. This will be the second improvement upon the original design. All of the retainers of the first improvement over the initial design have sold out. Each improvement of the design is geared to ease installation without sacrificing longevity of the valve's adjustment.

And I agreed with Bruce about street riders not really needing the longevity of the valve retainers. Zina rides her M900 well but rarely bangs off the rev limiter and gets up to 20k miles between needing a valve adjustment. But ... when I "street rode" my 900SS, I caned that bike and it needed the OE valves/retainers adjusted frequently. My use and that bike were a good candidate for the MBP retainers. Also ... once stainless or Ti valves are installed, the MBP retainers are considered mandatory! The valve gets beat up from the OE style keeper.
 
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Re: (smakbiam)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smakbiam »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exactly what BCM said, and make sure they are purchased from http://www.mbpducati.com and NOT the .ca site. There are parties out there selling couterfit collets that do not work or fit like the real ones.</TD></TR></TABLE>


What the f#%k are you talking about? It's the same company.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
No. Not the same company.

I've been involved with Guy for over 8 years as a friend, customer and business associate and short of the man himself, I'm probably the best authority on the relationships between the two websites (and companies).

Guy Martin's company is Martin Brickwood Performance and his site is http://www.mbpducati.ca. The other site (.com) is operated by John Parker (a Harley oriented cylinder head man) and a Montreal lawyer. Both of these gentlemen were, until a year ago, in partnership with Guy Martin. Guy split with them and short of an expensive court injunction, they'll continue to use the MBP brand, the old website and his name to promote their business interests. They are selling 2-valve collets only and primarily old stock from the older design. They'll continue to do this until they run out of stock or interest.

As Bob and Chris stated, if you want to deal with the source, go to Guy at the .ca site.

BTW, I used Guy's collets in my Ducati bevel drive vintage racer for eight hard seasons and we adjusted the valves once.
 
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Re: (smakbiam)

After meeting Guy at Ducati Days Daytona and enjoying his seminar I am looking forward to using his collets. He is a real gentlman who knows his craft. He explained to us, when asked, the same thing that "loudbike" and others have said on this forum. His website is mpbducati.ca. His ex-partner owns mpbducai.com. After reading posts on this forum about this topic, meeting him, and hearing it again come into question, I can tell you that it is unfortunate that there is such confusion surrounding he and his product. There is no question in my mind anymore.
 
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Re: (chris_k)

Chris and Guy, maybe you guys can explain to everyone why your retainers required 3 different "generations" to get things right? The real collets from .com do not have fitment or install problems. We constantly get your customers collets returned to us, complaining that they don't fit. We have to explain the reason why they don't fit, and usually end up selling the real collets to them.. which fit, problem solved. 3rd generation... I hope you got it right this time. What about all the other customers that got the 1st and 2nd gens?


Really though, if you had fitment problems with these collets and you purchased them from ca-cycleworks, you made your own bed. I don't have anything bad to say regarding the other products on your site, just the collet and head crap.. but you know the story.

Guy's not getting a call from me, tell him not to hold his breath. It wreaks of bad BS regarding the collet issue as is.
 
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