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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hoping someone can help me figure out the cause of these symptoms. This is on a stock master cylinder and rubber lines. After about 30 minutes of riding the brake lever begins getting closer and closer to the bar, even with the levers adjusted all the way out, they get to where they're practically touching the bar. Pumping them will get them firm again for a bit. If I stop and rest, the brakes are firmer as well. I've already drained all fluid, bled at the master, both calipers and again at the master a few times, with no relief. Brake system only has about 2700 miles on it. Any thoughts?
 

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is it posible that there is a pin hole in the lines, or the brake resivoir to the master? perhaps the clip fasteneing the reservoir hose to the master is leaking, or the plastic that snaps into the master is cracker?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The stuff going from the res to the master looks OK, everything is secure and there's no fluid around there. It's all new stuff, so should be in tip top shape. I have a small suspicion that are could be air trapped in the t-fitting on the stock lines, where they split from 1 to 2. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I fit a 2-2 setup. I REALLLY hope that takes care of it.
 

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The stuff going from the res to the master looks OK, everything is secure and there's no fluid around there. It's all new stuff, so should be in tip top shape. I have a small suspicion that are could be air trapped in the t-fitting on the stock lines, where they split from 1 to 2. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I fit a 2-2 setup. I REALLLY hope that takes care of it.
Stainless lines should fix that right-up, did I send you a 12v vacuum pump ?

If not get two clear flexible tubes (hardware store) that push onto the bleeders (safety wire or small zip tie them on) and raise them above the master (hang with wire).
This way when you bleed you can see perfectly any and all air and if the fluid is clean you can route it back into the master.
Clean-up is a snap !
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
It's been so long since I've used some, but this is definitely beyond the norm, at least on any other motorcycle I've used. Spieglers en route, I'm really counting (hoping) on that taking care of it.
 

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After you bleed, zip tie the lever over night. Even if you think you're sure all the air is gone, smash that lever as close to the bar as you can and then zip tie the lever there and let it sit overnight. In the morning, leave the lever alone and crack the bleeders real quick, then tighten them back down. Snip the zip ties and pump the lever back up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Could be. I'm also switching from RC brakes and Brembo M/C with steel lines to OEM R1 stuff, so quite a change. They do have good power. Spieglers and CL XBK5 should really improve the front end.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
After you bleed, zip tie the lever over night. Even if you think you're sure all the air is gone, smash that lever as close to the bar as you can and then zip tie the lever there and let it sit overnight. In the morning, leave the lever alone and crack the bleeders real quick, then tighten them back down. Snip the zip ties and pump the lever back up.
I haven't tried this since I replaced the fluid. Does it cause undue wear to fully squeeze the lever before applying zip ties? I generally just squeeze until I get a bit of resistance and tie there. I'll do that after I install the new lines.
 

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I've never understood the whole zip-tie fad. Once I have properly bled the system my brake levers are rock hard every time I pull them on every bike I own or have owned, worked on, serviced or otherwise my entire life & not one time have I ever had to resort to putting a zip-tie on them overnight to improve that lever feel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I did it on the RC when I installed lines last time just for the hell of it, but didn't get any additional feel. Using the vacuum pump seems to work really well.
 

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I've never understood the whole zip-tie fad. Once I have properly bled the system my brake levers are rock hard every time I pull them on every bike I own or have owned, worked on, serviced or otherwise my entire life & not one time have I ever had to resort to putting a zip-tie on them overnight to improve that lever feel.
Mike, every one likes fads ,take the color purple for example...;)
 

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with steel lines to OEM R1 stuff,
FWIW, my buddy with a 2009 R1 complains about the feel of the OEM brake system, ALL THE TIME. His friend who's a mechanic for Graves says that R1 OEM brakes are extremely hit-and-miss with quality and feel. Your complaints only reinforce his complaints.
 

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I've never understood the whole zip-tie fad. Once I have properly bled the system my brake levers are rock hard every time I pull them on every bike I own or have owned, worked on, serviced or otherwise my entire life & not one time have I ever had to resort to putting a zip-tie on them overnight to improve that lever feel.
It's something I've personally done and witnessed the results first hand, so I figured I'd pass it on. Whether someone tries it or not is up to them. :)
 

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Unless you are hammering the bike within an inch of its life you shouldn't get that. A bit of brake fade while riding very aggressively on the road could be normal (track is another matter completely) but having so much, even with OE lines, is not.
There are a number of possible causes and they aren't very easy to pinpoint.
My first personal pick would be a leaky bleed nipple, for no other reason I had that happening. I only noticed because I was using a Mityvac and saw some very, very fine bubbles coming from a nipple when the system was supposed to be flushed. You would have hardly noticed by bleeding manually. Removed the nipple, noticed some worn Teflon around the thread, understood the root of my problems, went out, bought a new one and no more problems.
Another possible cause is a pin-sized leak in the M/C seals. Again, quite hard to pin down (no pun intended) if there isn't any fluid around. My brother had that on his 1000RR and it was a classic case of a minute to fix it but hours to find it out.
A defective crush washer is much easier to pin down because it will leak, no matter what.
Finally it could be a leaky caliper oil seal. They are pretty sturdy but they will wear down eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I was experiencing fade, but this extends beyond that. I'm supposed to get replacement lines today, should eliminate that variable. Bike is practically brand new, so if it does have any defective seals, it likely came that way.
 
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