In my book, yes. There are several great riders that rank more or less equal in my mind. Fogarty and Bayliss are the two greatest WSBK champs. I have little doubt had Bayliss not switched to MotoGP he would have at least four titles in Supers.Bayliss and Biaggi equal?![]()
I agree with most of your post except for this part. He was probably a better 500 rider than 990 rider, and the M1 was a dog the first year. However, from 2003-2005 he was on the RC211v, arguably the best bike on the grid and ended up finishing behind other Honda riders. For whatever reason, he could not get the results at Honda, but it had nothing to do with them struggling after Rossi's departure.For many reasons Max seemed to be unlucky in 500/990. Ironically probably his most competitive ride was his first, the Marlboro Honda 500. Too bad Doohan was in his prime during this time. When on Yamaha they were struggling with the YZR500 and early M1. He finally got on Repsol Honda, just as HRC found themselves struggling with Rossi's departure.
Among All-time roadracers? Tough to say. Being a four-time 250 world champ, winning races in MotoGP, and the WSBK title he makes a strong case for being in the top 10. But no MotoGP titles knocks him down a bit in my book. Other riders I will list below don't have a MotoGP title either. If Max stays a couple more years and wins another WSBK title after 2010, his case gets stronger.
I personally would rate him below Rossi/Hailwood/Agostini in a larger group of "second-tier" greats. I also rate Rainey, Doohan, and Lawson high on my list ahead of the rest of the riders below.
Basically IMO Biaggi is equal to Roberts Sr., Spencer, Schwantz, Fogarty, Bayliss, and Nieto.
That's insulting to Biaggi for sure! His accomplishments are much more impressive over a longer period of time for sure!:rockonBayliss and Biaggi equal?![]()
No Steady Eddie? He was the dominant rider of the 80's, and was the first rider to switch brands (Yamaha to Honda) and win back-to-back championships. He also developed the Cagiva from an absolute dog into a race winner in the early 90's.
- Agontini
- Rossi
- Hailwood
- Joey Dunlop
- Rainey
- Doohan
- Biaggi
- Edwards
- Bayliss
- Fogarty (Foggy should be higher but he could never replicate off the dominate Ducati and Edwards was hampered by the ...
).
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think too much credit is given for 250cc titles. I think an AMA Superbike title is more impressive, so the idea that a WSBK Championship ranks below a 250cc trophy makes no sense to me.Pretty sure too much credit is being given for a WSBK title and too little credit for a 250cc title. (Recent 250cc title winners have been more successful in the MotoGP class than WSBK champions have been, although Spies will probably be the exception to that.)
Opps, must have deleted Eddie in the list by accident. No I liked him where you had him esp for his clinical approach.No Steady Eddie? He was the dominant rider of the 80's, and was the first rider to switch brands (Yamaha to Honda) and win back-to-back championships. He also developed the Cagiva from an absolute dog into a race winner in the early 90's.
No way Edwards is ahead of Fogarty either. During the reign of King Carl, WSBK was arguably equal in status to 500GP. The bikes were just as fast anyway. Corser (on a Ducati 996) held the two-wheel lap record at Donington for many years. 1996 IIRC was when he was faster than the 500's. Kocinski should rate higher than Edwards as he did win on a certain Honda. Also has a 250 championship.
I personally discounted Yer Man because he didn't have track success, but no doubt he was incredible in real road racing. Fogarty also won at IoM and had the lap record from '92-99, so perhaps that is another one to bolster his status. Also had World Championships in Formula 1 and Endurance.
Isn't this fun?
I know Steve Hislop went faster around Donington than Rossi's record time one year on the MonsterMob 998 Ducati, I think it was 2002. I don't recall Corser doing it.No way Edwards is ahead of Fogarty either. During the reign of King Carl, WSBK was arguably equal in status to 500GP. The bikes were just as fast anyway. Corser (on a Ducati 996) held the two-wheel lap record at Donington for many years. 1996 IIRC was when he was faster than the 500's.
If your going to include World F1 championships than that puts Joey back in the hunt. He has 5 to Carl's 3.I personally discounted Yer Man because he didn't have track success, but no doubt he was incredible in real road racing. Fogarty also won at IoM and had the lap record from '92-99, so perhaps that is another one to bolster his status. Also had World Championships in Formula 1 and Endurance.
Wow, I wouldn't have put AMA Superbike remotely close to 250GP in terms of rider skill and competitiveness. Ben is clearly an exception to this....he's just one of those nuggets that wins wherever he comes from. He's that good. Would he have been as dominant in 250s as he was recently in AMA Superbike? I doubt it, but then again..he's a little large for that tiny tot bunch.I know this isn't a popular opinion, but I think too much credit is given for 250cc titles. I think an AMA Superbike title is more impressive, so the idea that a WSBK Championship ranks below a 250cc trophy makes no sense to me.
:twocents
I'm pretty sure it was '96.I know Steve Hislop went faster around Donington than Rossi's record time one year on the MonsterMob 998 Ducati, I think it was 2002. I don't recall Corser doing it.