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2,284 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have been discussing with my friend Joerg what to do with his Hypermotard engine. It has DP cams, a light DP flywheel, racing alternator and an SC Project pipe alongside a matching Termi ECU.

We thre around ideas and called up a couple of tuners, as he wanted to go 102mm bore with race headwork, ti-rods (yes, they do exist :D) and all that junk.

If any of you are firm with people in the 2v world, you would probably have heard the name GPM from Italy. They built this little thing:



Custom cast cylinders and heads, presumably 106mm on top of a 1098R engine case. Quite sick.

So to get back to the point, I asked the guys at GPM what they wanted for engine preparation. Since they don´t speak a single word of English or German, I busted out my best Italian (cough... it´s good enough to order a pizza :() and this is what I got back:

GPM Racing
di Gianesin Pietro
Via C. Cattaneo, 6
36040 Sossano (VI)

Buongiorno

coppia cammes Gpm STWs
euro 600,00
coppia pistoni disegno Gpm d.102 mmm euro
660,00
Coppia guarnizioni cilindro / testa d. 102 mm euro
90,00
coppia cilindri d. 102 mm*
euro 1.300,00*
*(se voi consegnate a noi i vostri cilindri, la modifica di n. 2
cilindri costa euro 700,00)

Coppia valvole aspirazione titanio Gpm**
euro 380,00
Coppia valvole scarico nimonic Gpm**
euro 240,00
Preparazione vostre n. 2 teste per competizioni** euro
1.500,00

** Optional: kit semiconi e registri valvola per semiconi Gpm (maggiore
durata ed affidabilità delle valvole) euro 220,00

Coppia bielle titanio
euro 1.200,00
Alleggerimento e bilanciatura albero motore euro
350,00


Ai nostri motori così preparati ed usati solo per competizioni (quindi un
uso estremo) facciamo una revisione con sostituzione bronzine e pistoni
dopo 2.500 km (solo per estrema sicurezza, a 2.500 km i pistoni si
presentano ancora in ottime condizioni).
La sostituzione delle valvole se si usa il kit Gpm con ancoraggio valvola
tramite semiconi (e non semianelli, come di serie) può essere fatta
tranquillamente a 4/5.000 km.
Se questo motore viene usato in pista, ma non per race competition, il
chilometraggio aumenta di molto.

Distinti saluti
Pietro e Cristian Gianesin
Run it through a translator if you can´t make up the words.
Google Übersetzer
I thought it was really interesting to see how expensive a tuned 2v engine really is. Everyone kept saying that 2v are cheaper, but when it comes to tuning, there´s not much to be saved.
 

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How slow can u go?
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612 Posts
Jeezuz, Ben! And I thought my engines were expensive... Outrageous!

I always thought the best part of the air cooled two valvers were the lower cost associated with building the engine and maintaining it. With prices like these I see absolutely no reason to head down the two valve route. Less power than a liquid cooled four valver and an even higher cost isn't my idea of fun. I think I'll stick with the good old strettas :)
I thought it was really interesting to see how expensive a tuned 2v engine really is. Everyone kept saying that 2v are cheaper, but when it comes to tuning, there´s not much to be saved.
 

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2,284 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah they´re going a very extreme way at GPM. I got told they are putting in huge inlet valves, some 50mm. I don´t know how they want to incorporate those in the cylinder head, but then they made their own, so that might work.

When we started calculating it struck me quite badly. The sum is just as high as a highly tuned 4v engine. It would only make sense to go the bespoken route if you want to race in a 2v only class. Those are becoming pretty crowded over here lately. Rolf Hadeler (Ducati Rosengarten) told me that a well built 2v race engine will cost in the range of 8000-1000 Euros. Looking at the prices, he might have been right (as usual...).

The main issue I have with throwing that kind of money at a DS 2v engine is, that you will gain a lot of power from just opening up the air supply. From the factory, there is a mini hole in the airbox. Emissions and Euro norms... Then after that there are two options to gain considerably more power. Exhaust + ECU and camshafts. Further down the list there´s headwork. Actually headwork should get you more power than just the race exhaust if done properly, but the point is right after that it gets stupid expensive and the gains will be small. Just look at the bigbore options (98 to 102mm). Just bigboring the engine will not give you a lot more power, but it costs an arm and a leg. 102mm pistons, piston rings, boring cylinders and putting in a sleeve. Then you will probably have the issue of thin cylinder walls, so they will warp with ongoing mileage.

To put this into a perspective I will throw in some numbers. We dyno tested some 2v bikes. My 1100 bone stock except for cored end pipe put out 84 rwhp EG corrected on a Dynojet. Pretty healthy, but then not much stronger than my friends bike. He then opened the airbox, added race pipe + ECU and put in cams, dynoed it and got some 96 rwhp (DIN corrected). That´s 1 grand for the pipe and silencer, 550 for the cams with ECU. No labour, he did install them himself. Usually you could calculate ... let´s say 300 for putting in cams and timing, does that sound about right? That´s 1850€ for 12 hp.

Laughable in 4v terms, isn´t it. In the end, those 96 rwhp are super fun and to be honest - they´re more fun in my book than a 175hp 1198. But to each his own.
 

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Zombies, I have a plan
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59 Posts
"Our engines so prepared and used only for competitions (so a
extreme use) do a review with replacement bushings and pistons
after 2,500 km (only for extreme safety, the pistons is 2,500 km
are still in excellent condition). Valve replacement if you use the kit with anchor valve Gpm by cotters (and not half rings as standard) can be made
quietly 4/5.000 km. If this engine is used on the track, but not for race competition, the greatly increases mileage."


Wow not a long life expectancy either, these engines must be putting out some good power.
 

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2,284 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They claim big power, yes. I have heard 125 from NCR... They should be in that range. Take it with a grain of salt, because I haven´t seen proof yet. A service interval of 2500 hints at a high revving engine, so maybe they let it rev to some 10000 or 11000 rpm. That´s going to smash everything inside quickly.
 

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who's yo daddy?
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757 Posts
here are a few comp. pics of 800 2V heads:
below is a head done for me by Doug Cook, he welded the original intake ports and increased dia/straightened the tract


stock head:


side-by side:


the 800 motor with 900 cams, 12.3:1 compression, and 748 throttle bodies made 89.9 rwhp/56 ft lbs torque. I think some additional tuning would release more hp, but I got tired of fussing with it so I just race it as is.
 

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who's yo daddy?
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757 Posts
Bruce Meyer of BCM fame did the motor on my old DS1000 that made 110 HP for a lot less then what I've seen here. Of course mine was race only(race gas,etc.).
Bruce=God

btw, you should be running my offset steering head bearings in that bike;)
 

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I don't know all the details of the engine build,but I do know it had these hard bits along with tuning
-1080 hi-comp piston kit
-race cams
-reworked heads with BIG valves
-nemesis ECU
Got the bike down to 335 LB
-ETI tank
-Marchaseni wheels
-ally swingarm and fairing stay
-sharkskin bodywork
-cut rear subframe away


 
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