Snowden a hero, or traitor ? - Page 2 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
View Poll Results: Snowden a hero or traitor ?
Hero 7 58.33%
Traitor 4 33.33%
Don't know 1 8.33%
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 20_RC51_00 View Post
Flees to HK

.... so that he is not made an example by the propaganda machine, of the country that he is trying to uphold.
He is trying to uphold the USA by divulging the details of American spying against Russia?
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-19-2013, 02:57 PM
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He is trying to uphold the USA by divulging the details of American spying against Russia?
russia spys on everybody, usa spys on everybody, everybody with funny money fiat systems spys on everybody. Nothing that wasn't known. ....but what is new is that citizens freedoms have been trampled on. That is the real secret worth divulging.... as long as there is trade between nations money talks and friends will be friends regardless what happens behind the close curtains in the oval office.
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 20_RC51_00 View Post
russia spys on everybody, usa spys on everybody, everybody with funny money fiat systems spys on everybody. Nothing that wasn't known. ....but what is new is that citizens freedoms have been trampled on. That is the real secret worth divulging.... as long as there is trade between nations money talks and friends will be friends regardless what happens behind the close curtains in the oval office.




So it's OK to steal your countries secrets, fly around the world to two of your countries, at best, tenuous allies and bring a few hard drives worth of secrets along for the trip... and you're a hero, not a traitor.

No matter whether you are right or wrong in your assertions about the USA doing what he did doesn't absolve him of his crimes.

Why he felt the need to go to China then Russia is incredibly suspect. Why he felt he is should play judge, jury and hopefully not executioner re the NSA, playing god as it were, makes me question his motives. If he really believe in what he is doing why evade US prosecution, why not face his accusers and tackle the problem head on in a public trial. He isn't the first NSA whistleblower. I could understand if the whistleblower protections were not in place but they have been well entrenched and tested for over a 12 yrs.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-17-2013, 07:39 PM
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Talking

Simple, make sure he wakes up dead in his moscow (or wherever) apt. Sends a message to all the Bradley (fag) Mannings out there that shit happens..............

-Rocky-

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 03:26 AM
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Why he felt he is should play judge, jury and hopefully not executioner re the NSA, playing god as it were, makes me question his motives.
EXACTLY..... what the NSA is doing!
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-18-2013, 03:32 AM
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Simple, make sure he wakes up dead in his moscow (or wherever) apt. Sends a message to all the Bradley (fag) Mannings out there that shit happens..............

-Rocky-
Funny you should believe such nonsense with your "military background"

your false "pride" and "nationalism" fed to you by your brainwashing propoganda machine is leading you by the nose to destroy the very nation you "love"

Those that served long before you served for to uphold the things you are actually destroying with your mentality!

Information and transparency can never be a bad thing. Unless you like living in the dark.
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-28-2013, 12:58 AM
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He is neither a hero nor traitor.

778. Edward Snowden is a false flag (7/5/2013)

My conclusion based on the following facts.

1. Time line. It’s the development of the recent events, all related to the core plot- elimination of Kat Sung.

(1) The final stage of Boston bombing. It is marked by the killing of Toadshev in late May and the retirement announcement of the Boston FBI Chief in early June.

(2) On 6/7, an unusual private meeting between Obama and Xi (Chinese President) was arranged suddenly in California. Payment of the secret deal apparantly was an issue.

(3) On 6/14, “Former US National Security Agency (NSA) contractor Edward Snowden revealed to Hong Kong’s English-language newspaper, the South China Morning Post, on Wednesday that Washington has hacked into hundreds of civilian targets in Hong Kong and mainland China.” Edward Snowden reveals US computer hacking aimed at China - World Socialist Web Site

2. Obviously, Snowden’s revelation is the result of that private summit. It is part of payment of a secret deal between the secret police of US and China.

US recently “has repeatedly accused Beijing of perpetrating cyber-warfare, while China has continuously denied the accusations.

The latest round in this blame game saw the US Defense Science Board publish a report saying that nearly 40 Pentagon weapons programs and almost 30 other defense technologies were compromised by Chinese hackers, some allegedly tied to the military or government. (Cyber ceasefire? US and China square off over Internet espionage claims ? RT News)

It’s not a coincidence that Snowden chose Hong Kong as the place for his revelation. That’s a payment to China. His revelation largely releases the pressure on China.

3. It is a payment to Chinese secret police for their collaboration in Boston bombing. In which they confirmed one of the death was a Chinese student. They also joined a carjacking set up to trap Tsarnaev brothers. (mysterious Danny). Also for a big operation to create a bird flu which estimated 6.5 billion in cost. (see “774. China and bird flu (6/5/2013)”)
  • No information important has Snowden leaked to public because his job is just to release the “cyber spying” pressure from China. What he said is to prove US does same thing that China does. Government spying on people and foreign countries. That’s common sense. Americans know echelon, Patriot Act since 911. Civil rights has been damaged already. So what for Prism.
  • News said Snowden is helped by Wikeleaks in his travel plan and finance. It proves true what I alleged two years ago that Assange was a false flag. The master played behind them is the same organization. (see “655. Bin Laden and Julian Assange, False flag and living plant (12/7/2010)”)


779. Big events in 2013 is a big plot (7/10/2013)

Since this February the Feds activated a series of big operations at the purpose to distract public attention from a small operation – eliminating Kat Sung. It sounds odd for some people, but has been proved true by decade long history. If you have read whole of my story, you may have got familiar with these tactics already.

1. Attempted war on Iran. (1) On 2/15, a “meteorite” exploded in Russia. It was an intimidation to Russia with a high tech. weapon which imitated meteor explosion. Russia is Iran’s ally. (2) In same month, former Pope Benedict resigned under pressure. The Feds replaced him with a puppet of their own. As a Pope, Benedict would oppose war on Iran if it happenes. (see #759)

2. Bio attack – Bird Flu epidemic. Which was carried out by Chinese secret police and started from 4/1. (see “774. China and bird flu (6/5/2013)”)

3. A nuclear war panic created by N. Korea. N. Korea has been bribed to do this for three times. Each time it related to elimination plot.
(1) First nuclear test- 10/9/2006. (see “440. October surprise (10/5/06)” to #445)
(2) 5/25/2009, Second nuke test. (See “614. Secret deal with N.Korea (11/22/09)”)
(3)2/12/2013, third nuclear test. (see “765. How to justify a nuclear attack? (4/1/2013)”). The purpose is to frame Iran to “nuclear proliferation with N. Korea.

4. Domestic terror attack which at last will justify the war on Iran. The “terror attack” will be a “dirty bomb attack” or “nuclear bomb attack”. The likely target will be New York City. You saw this attempt in (1) In March, Osama bin Laden's son-in-law, who acted as a spokesman for al-Qaida, has been apprehended, transported to New York. The trial on him will justify an “Al Qaida revenge attack” in New York. (2) Tsanaev brothers of Boston bombing indicated such attempt. They were accused of

“April 25, 2013

Tsarnaev Brothers Planned Times Square Attack After Boston Bombing

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/north_america/jan-june13/boston_04-25.html “

Korea Peninsula war crisis, domestic nuclear terror attack, epidemic, war on Iran, each single event could develop to a big disaster, let alone all four add together. That’s because FBI Chief Robert Mueller will step down in this September. The punishment for FBI murdering is just resignation. So they took the advantage and chance to plan such big events.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-01-2013, 11:07 PM
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Funny you should believe such nonsense with your "military background"

your false "pride" and "nationalism" fed to you by your brainwashing propoganda machine is leading you by the nose to destroy the very nation you "love"

Those that served long before you served for to uphold the things you are actually destroying with your mentality!

Information and transparency can never be a bad thing. Unless you like living in the dark.
As much as it gauls me infact I would rather eat festering dog shit. I have to agree with Rocky. some of the information he has in his possession may jeopardise the lives of his former colleagues we don't know what secrets he stolen.

The simple fact of the matter is he was sworn to secrecy (we have the Official Secrets Act I guess you have something similar) and rightly or wrongly he betrayed his country and more importantly IMO his colleagues. OK maybe he's not told us anything that we didn't know already, well unless you are really naive. If I worked with him I want him dead.
Some things need to be known others shouldn't.


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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 01:44 AM
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I have mixed feelings about this whole matter and see merit in virtually every point presented. Sadly, given that the West is essentially at war with a bunch of brainwashed, fanatical religious wackos bent on martyrdom, it seems we have little choice but to engage in widesprad monitoring, for any easing off will provide these fanatics with the opening they need to kil thousands (millions? just imagine what they'd do with a nuke......) of innocent people. In life, some choices are difficult to make and involve picking the lesser evil, and this seems to be the ultiamte example of said situation...... I am not overly keen on being spied upon, but I'm not sure what the workable alternatives are......

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-02-2013, 06:52 AM
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I have mixed feelings about this whole matter and see merit in virtually every point presented. Sadly, given that the West is essentially at war with a bunch of brainwashed, fanatical religious wackos bent on martyrdom, it seems we have little choice but to engage in widesprad monitoring, for any easing off will provide these fanatics with the opening they need to kil thousands (millions? just imagine what they'd do with a nuke......) of innocent people. In life, some choices are difficult to make and involve picking the lesser evil, and this seems to be the ultiamte example of said situation...... I am not overly keen on being spied upon, but I'm not sure what the workable alternatives are......
Well put.


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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 05:30 AM
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Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The leaders of the "west" are no different.

The war on terror is the new war on drugs.... the former has never worked, The latter is futile.

Can't fight an enemy with annihilation as a tactic when they are not fearful of death only to leave their ideas alive and stronger then ever.
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 07:46 AM
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My self and another guy started talking about the loss of rights here in the U.S. about 3 or 4 years ago. People got all up in arms, started attacking us both and it got way out of hand. Well look at what we have here. More loss of rights and a guy who spoke out and showed you how WE are being violated by our government. People want to label him a traitor, for what? For telling the public what the government was doing, and doing it to its own? Really? He's a traitor for talking about the governments traitor like behavior? LOL really?
Secret courts that pass secret laws that can't be talked about because they are classified. WTF? That doesn't make any sense, not to mention the things they pass violate the constitution.
Terrorism. 911. The patriot act. All about as real as WMD's. All of which were concocted to set up more laws to whittle away your rights.
Keep thinking it doesn't affect you and that you have nothing to hide.
You better get a grip.


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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 07:57 AM
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Further more. I guess you could look at his fleeing to China as suspect... but you could also look at it as the U.S. is so fawked he'd rather take his chances in communist China because whistle blowers can never get a fair shake here in the U.S.
All I'm saying is have the same scrutiny for Government and its actions as you do for him. Some can't separate love and servitude for country from the country shafting is citizens.


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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-04-2013, 10:44 PM
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The threat of "terrorism" is minute compared to the level and extent of rights that have been seized by the goverment.....

The risk of being gunned down by the government (police etc.) is orders of magnitude greater then the risk of being killed by "terrorists"! Think about that for a second!

Coca-cola and McDonalds arguably kill more americans annually than terrorists combined yet they are not the targets of surveillance....


You’re More Likely to Die from Brain-Eating Parasites, Alcoholism, Obesity, Medical Errors, Risky Sexual Behavior or Just About Anything OTHER THAN Terrorism | Washington's Blog

How Scared of Terrorism Should You Be? - Reason.com

The Irrationality of Giving Up This Much Liberty to Fight Terror - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-09-2013, 10:12 PM
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3. It is a payment to Chinese secret police for their collaboration in Boston bombing. In which they confirmed one of the death was a Chinese student. They also joined a carjacking set up to trap Tsarnaev brothers. (mysterious Danny). Also for a big operation to create a bird flu which estimated 6.5 billion in cost. (see “774. China and bird flu (6/5/2013)”)
  • .
773. Chinese secret police is accomplice of the Feds (5/25/2013)

Boston bombing and Verginia Tech. massacre, both were planned by the Feds to cover up a main plot- "eliminate Kat Sung"(which went soured for some reason). Chinese secret police heavily involved in these two cases.

In original plan of Virginia Tech. case, the gunman was portrayed as a Chinese student. Whatever the Feds said about him, the Chinese government would confirm it true. Here is the news issued right on that day:

Quote:
"Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed
Quote:

April 16, 2007
BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist

Sneed hears authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people in a rampage on the Virginia Tech campus was a Chinese national who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 25-year-old man being investigated for the deadliest college carnage in U.S. history reportedly arrived in San Francisco on a United Airlines flight on Aug. 7, 2006, on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators had not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source added." "


However, the main plot fail to go through, they had to change their original plan. A Korean student- Cho Sun-hui became a sacrifice. (I think Cho was an informant. In big case, Feds used to activate a lot of informants as special support group)
Here is a rare news for you to judge how Cho died.

Quote:
"Virginia Tech Massacre : Police Won't Rule Out Second Shooter/Accomplice, Yet
Quote:

Killer Shot Himself, Through The Back Of The Head, Blowing Out His Face


Police claim by the time they reached the second floor, the gun fire had stopped and Cho was found on the floor of a classroom. Police claim he shot himself, through the back of the head :

“He opened fire to the back of his head and blew up the front part of his head, which has made it difficult to identify him...”

http://yournewreality.blogspot.com/2007/04/virginia-tech-massacre-police-wont-rule.html "


Similar things happened in Boston bombing. Though a lot of pictures of bombing site were issued in internet, they were mainly about the amputee man (Bauman) and other cover up teams. The purpose is to comfort the others that it was a stage show that there was no real casualty. The foundation to rule this country is a massive informants troop. They were rattled after 911 attack and 7/7 London bombing which reminded them any time they could become involuntary "suicides". So a big job of Feds is to prove them that it was only an actors' show. That's why in those bloody pictures, we saw no real dead victim.

Three people were reported dead in Boston bombing. One was said a Chinese student. Chinese government would confirm what the Feds said. Its secret police is an accomplice in this case.

When the Feds decided to frame Tsarnaev brothers as the suspects of Boston bombing, the fate of brothers were decided too. The Feds issued the photo of the suspects on 4/18. Tamerlan was shot to death that day and Dzhokhar was chased by 10,000 police thereafter before they had chance to know that they had become suspects. The point was to create a case that they had conflict with police. So we heard the odd news of the death of a MIT police and car hijacking that night.

Quote:
Boston Bombers’ Carjacking Victim Is A Chinese Entrepreneur Named ‘Danny’
Quote:

Adam Pasick April 26, 2013

The man who was carjacked by alleged Boston Marathon bombers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and who made a daring escape that helped lead to their apprehension, is a 26-year-old Chinese immigrant engineer and entrepreneur who has asked only to be identified by his American nickname, Danny.

The Boston Globe interviewed Danny and reported that he is from a “province in central China” who studied engineering at Northeastern University before starting up a company in Boston’s Kendall Square. He asked the Globe not to disclose his full name, although it may be made public if and when he testifies against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/boston-bombers%E2%80%99-carjacking-victim-is-a-chinese-entrepreneur-named-danny.html


http://yishizuo.com/wp-content/uploa...ny-300x169.jpg

Quote:
Danny – The Mysterious Chinese Hero of the Boston Bombings


Chinese became important “witness” of Boston bombing case.

774. China and bird flu (6/5/2013)

The Feds had activated bio-attack as murder weapon twice in my case. The first one was the SARS in 2003. The virus was bird flu H5N1. (covered in #130, #137 to #164) The second one was Swine flu in 2009. It said the virus was bird flu H1N1. (covered in #596 to #608) This April they have the third one- the bird flu H7N9 attack. As usual, Chinese secret police plays an important role.
  • It starts in Shanghai on April 1.
Quote:
Two men die in Shanghai in first human cases of bird flu strain

  • Development.
4/6. The New Bird Flu: How Dangerous Is Avian Flu H7N9? ( forbes.com)
4/18. China's Bird Flu Is Being Spread from Human to Human (By Alexander Abad-Santos | The Atlantic Wire 4/18/2013)
5/24.
Quote:
New bird flu may be capable of human to human spread - study
Quote:
By Lavinia Mo 5/24/2013
HONG KONG (Reuters) - The new H7N9 bird flu virus can be transmitted between mammals not only via direct contact but also in airborne droplets, and may be capable of spreading from person to person, Chinese and American researchers have found.


In 2003, the SARS started in Hong Kong then extended into Shanghai. It might mean the virus was spread by the US intelligence. In 2013, the course reverses. It may mean the technique has been passed to the Chinese secret police by the Feds.
My wife has relatives living in Hong Kong and I have relatives live in Shanghai. The location of disease indicated the Feds intended to silence most people who know my story.
  • Prepare for a big disaster.
Quote:
New virus called ‘threat to the entire world’
Quote:

..By Claudine Zap 5/29/2013
The first death in France from a new SARS-like coronavirus brings the worldwide total for the disease to 27 deaths and 49 infections, CNN reports.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/virus-called-threat-entire-world-152046513.html


In the Feds’ plot, the Boston bombing would eventually developed into “war on Iran” which will be protested by other countries. To deal with possible resistance, they replaced former Pope Benedict with a puppet of their own. The above news indicates that the Feds would also punish the disobedient countries with SARS-like disease if others dare to protest.

Quote:
Bird flu costs China industry $6.5 bn: state media


Business is business. China will be paid for its collaboration. It will be settled in this meeting:

Quote:
Obama to meet with China's Xi in California June 7-8
Quote:

WASHINGTON | Mon May 20, 2013

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping will hold their first meeting since Xi became president in March when they sit down for a June 7-8 summit in Rancho Mirage, California, the White House announced on Monday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/20/us-usa-china-obama-idUSBRE94J0UQ20130520
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 08-19-2013, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for hijacking my thread katsung with all your tinfoil hat crap.

I do see the govs turning into police states where the rule of law means zip.
All in the name of natl security and I agree with several of you (furious, ie) that we seem to be giving up more than we get back and should fear that fact more than the nutjob terrorists.

V is for Vendetta is not far away...

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