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post #2021 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Baasinator View Post
My thumb tells me it's been getting colder for the last year or two... what do your fancy instruments say? Would that have anything to do with the switch from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change"?
"Sigh."

The last ten (10) years have been the warmest overall in the history of accurately recorded temperatures, which began in 1860.

"Last 10 Years Hottest Decade On Record- UK Met. Office



Climate Change is not something for the future. It's already happening. From the UK Met Office.

The UK Met. Office released data today showing that 2000-2009 was the warmest decade since instrumental records began in the 1850ís. The data also highlights the silliness of those claiming that stolen emails show a cover-up.
The data was run with Climate Research Unit (CRU) data and with data from NASA and NOAA.
There was very little difference.


Surface thermometers are not the only way to measure the Earth's warming.

If anyone tells you the planet is not warming, or the warming has stopped, they are not giving you science. Not only do all three independent temperature reconstructions match well. They also match with Borehole temperature reconstructions and proxies from ice cores and soil cores. Then there is the rapid loss of ice worldwide. From tropical mountain tops to Arctic Sea ice to the Antarctic Peninsula.

The animal and plant life also shows it. Watch this lecture
Then there are those claiming itís natural. Iím surprised that many people donít realize that scientists have been asking just that question for a long time now. The ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica have taught paleoclimate experts a lot over the last decade.


We know that changes in the Earthís orbit and changes in the Sunís brightness can cause the planet to warm and cool. Models can even simulate the past with very good results. Scientists can calculate the orbital changes and there are fairly good records of the sunís energy output.
We even know that the Earth warms and cools about one tenth of a degree Celsius over the 11 year sunspot cycle. (Itís actually a 22 year cycle but that is for a future post.)
If it were not for greenhouse gases, the overwhelming opinion of climate scientists is that the Earth as a whole, would be getting a little cooler. The Sun has been very quiet over the past few years, yet the last ten have been the warmest in 160 years.
The truth is a lot different than the junk science on the web isnít it!"

Danís Wild Wild Science Journal Ľ Blog Archive Ľ Last 10 Years Hottest Decade On Record- UK Met. Office

Which part of reality are you having difficulty with again ?

You think it's getting cold because you WANT to think this, and because the sinister propaganda you listen too wants to reinforce this mentality because it's in their interests, NOT yours, to have you happy-clapping along with them.
This is also why ONE temperature reading from Baasinator's private weather station recording his porch temperature is NOT an accurate record of the entire global temperature. That is also why accurate records began around the 1850's, as the US war department began getting precise and quantifiable data gathered from a variety of sources.

Trends in regional average surface temperatures - Maps and Graphics at UNEP/GRID-Arendal

Is this sinking in ?

"The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the second warmest September on record, according to NOAAís National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. Based on records going back to 1880, the monthly National Climatic Data Center analysis is part of the suite of climate services NOAA provides. NCDC scientists also reported that the average land surface temperature for September was the second warmest on record, behind 2005. Additionally, the global ocean surface temperature was tied for the fifth warmest on record for September.
Global Temperature Highlights
  • The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was 1.12 degrees F above the 20th century average of 59.0 degrees F. Separately the global land surface temperature was 1.75 degrees F above the 20th century average of 53.6 degrees F.

  • Warmer-than-average temperatures engulfed most of the worldís land areas during the month. The greatest warmth occurred across Canada and the northern and western contiguous United States. Warmer-than-normal conditions also prevailed across Europe, most of Asia and Australia.

  • The worldwide ocean temperature tied with 2004 as the fifth warmest September on record, 0.90 degree F above the 20th century average of 61.1 degrees F. The near-Antarctic southern ocean and the Gulf of Alaska featured notable cooler-than-average temperatures.
Other Highlights
  • Arctic sea ice covered an average 2.1 million square miles in September - the third lowest for any September since records began in 1979. The coverage was 23.8 percent below the 1979-2000 average, and the 13th consecutive September with below-average Arctic sea ice extent.

  • Antarctic sea ice extent in September was 2.2 percent above the 1979-2000 average. This was the third largest September extent on record, behind 2006 and 2007.

  • Typhoon Ketsana became 2009ís second-deadliest tropical cyclone so far, claiming nearly 500 lives across the Philippines, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. The storm struck the Philippines on September 26, leaving 80 percent of Manila submerged."
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20091015_sepglobalstats.html

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2022 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Baasinator View Post
I think you've brought up the "if I'm wrong... if you're wrong" idea a few times already. Hey, why don't you follow that same logic and find some religion, because that's where your silly argument is most often used.

Why do you think Al Gore is still lying and exagerrating to try and make his point? He's already made hundreds of millions of dollars and been annointed by you guys as some sort of god. But seriously, he could not be more full of shit, and you just eat it up! Weird, weird, weird...
Climategate: Gore falsifies the record | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!

Another one sucking at the tit of Rupert Moloch and the evil Ministry of Strewth !

Bolt is a certifiable moron, a drooling Ozzie version of the slack-jawed Rush Limbo, the Vicks'd up Glenn Berk and the other Denier apologist weasels who bark and yap at their sly Mass Muddier Monolith masters bidding.

The Blair/Bolt Watch Project

No but just go away already with this mindless propaganda spooge.
Bring some REAL facts to the table, or some serious scientists, but these fascist-licking shills, no way.

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2023 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 08:31 AM
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Please Mr. "I'm not a conservative". Andrew Bolt ?

The planet is worth worshiping, men are transient fops juxtaposed to mother nature and father time. Gore is a cog in the gears of change to mitigate our growth and off gassing as a metastasizing and viral species. He's smarter, and infinitely more credible than 99% of right wingers and good for green ideology and sustainability. Green ideology is good for health AND business, whether you like it or it makes you cry bitch and moan. Stop double timing the crying routine when you observe someone making green money again... because you also cry if someone stops you from making money. Never hear you bitch about the wastage and failures of multi trillion dollar fiascoes spent by arrogant, ignorant deniers. War profiteering gets a by but global sustainability is a scam... go man go.

Human civilizations are viral because selfish idiots insit upon grabbing short term, high profits over sustainability, possessions and distractions over nature and honour etc.

We are all guilty but some are truly evil and pathologically indifferent to our children or themselves. They block, stall and deny. They think the human swelling can go on and on without adaptation or change of course, thats from our medieval mindset ding dong friends. Imagine that... a finite space and a growing mass, gee, does it take a rocket scientist to theorize as to what will happen? Are you now afraid of evil theorists?

Think of the rotten, unconscionable bastards who would plan to sell you addictive, drugged up smokes, under the lying knowledge that they're killers, and they'll sell you the pharmacueticals you'll need after chemo. well, I give you big oil big chemistry and big war.

But you morons cant get enough..heheh amazing.
Excellent post.

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2024 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 08:38 AM
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OK. Get back to me when you prove this particular theory...


Bullshit. It's cold. And that's the beauty of this issue. It's either warming or it isn't, right? And it quite obviously isn't...
Gravity is also a "theory".

It's NOT warming, maybe, on your porch, but it is everywhere else.
I've got the windows open on a gorgeous Spring day, here today. Yay. Only...it's NOT Spring. The birds are flying in circles, going "WTF ??" and the trees and plants are starting to blossom THREE MONTHS too early.

You MAY think this is neat, but it's NOT.

However, there are advantages, but we have to understand what's really going on, and stop the damage which is ACKNOWLEDGED fact by every serious scientist on the planet, and concentrate on the paradigm shift that we're about to enter so that EVERYONE benefits, and not JUST a small group of "I don't care, I'm all right, Jack, keep your hands of MY stack" shits in their ivory towers.

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2025 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 09:15 AM
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There were 141 signatures by ppl who work within the climate industry worldwide who have signed this letter. The rest can be seen here>

Welcome to the Copenhagen Climate Challenge Web Site


Finally, the end of this scam should be around the corner.
And all of them are shills or confused. And all of them manipulated, hey, just like you.

Most of them have no specialty in the subjects, are retired and perhaps "confused", half are economists, and all are "PWNED".

Look, there are people like Tim Ball, James O'Brein and Dan Carruthers, Watt's and all the other happy-clapping, Right-wing tribe of Inhofe, all stomping and blabbering like paid Dervishes fresh from Denierville in Morontopia.

Inhofes List of 400 Scientists Global Warming Deniers, Debunked - Climate Change Deniers - thedailygreen.com

Pick a name, any name from your list, XFOB, and see what comes up when you pop it into this search engine.

ExxonSecrets | Greenpeace USA

Or this one;

Global warming skeptics - SourceWatch


Interesting op piece's on the Denialist's and their happy-clappers.

Climate Change Denial

Anti-science conservatives are stuck in denial; for climate science activists, the reverse is true | Grist

"It may seem impossible to imagine that a technologically advanced society could choose, in essence, to destroy itself, but that is what we are now in the process of doing."

--Elizabeth Kolbert

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2026 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Hopeless debate / argument....
Maybe the nastiest, most vitriolic one going on earth today.
Now we "debunk" the 400 "deniers" in favor of Mann, Jones, Pachauri et al.

Hopeless.
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post #2027 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 02:06 PM
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Join the Republican Party
"Where wings take dream"...


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post #2028 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 02:08 PM
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Hopeless debate / argument....
Maybe the nastiest, most vitriolic one going on earth today.
Now we "debunk" the 400 "deniers" in favor of Mann, Jones, Pachauri et al.

Hopeless.
I don't think it's even a debate, Nero. On one side, virtually every single scientist, climate expert and anyone with a clue, on the other a bunch of oil company shills (and even the oil companies are swinging over to the "well, it is happening, we have played a large part in causing it, let's see what we can salvage..." side) and some Right-wing demagogues with their happy-clapping tools following blindly behind them.

Not ONE serious argument with scientific basis has been brought up by the Deniers, except "we don't know enough, so let's do nothing but spend more money on investigation, despite the clear and present evidence that we're heading for a tipping point..."

Obfuscation, obstruction, downright lying, cheating and the usual Right-wing "Swiftboating" tactics, from the same sly bunch of social rapists that give you war, famine, disease and death......

No, I think the debate is well and truly over.
Some things just won't sit around and do nothing until we Humans have put our dogma on ice (whatever's left.. ) and it's time for action.
A lot of the gas and products we've pumped out over the last 150 years will take years to purge or return to post-industrial levels, and we may never return to some sort of balance, but at least we'll have tried, rather than sitting on the fence, or letting in blissful ignorance a small clan loot the planet then shuffle off this mortal coil leaving the masses to starve, drown, suffocate and die.

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2029 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nero View Post
Hopeless debate / argument....
Maybe the nastiest, most vitriolic one going on earth today.
Now we "debunk" the 400 "deniers" in favor of Mann, Jones, Pachauri et al.

Hopeless.
You obviously haven't frequented anywhere where the "Birthers" hold sway, then, have you.

"Stormfront" looks like a teddy-bears picnic by comparison, and this looks like a polite, informed discussion.

Oh, wait, it is........

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2030 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 03:36 PM
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Listen to the amount of wrongs in this little clip... Wrong about troops well supplied, wrong about clear strategy, wrong about coalition support and wrong that Bin Laden is not a threat.
"I dont think about him to be honest".. wow He's smiling arrogantly the entire time. The champion of ding-a-lingism.

OK, OK we all know what happened dont we? Are some of us here still blaming everything on Clinton for the Bin Laden fiasco? I sincerely hope you all have come to your senses and realized that Bush and Co. were total failures in almost every, single effort. You caught the part about Bush accusing Osama of committing young men to their deaths while he hides... sound familiar?
Ok, Ok again... What does this have to do with global warming? The same ignorant arrogance is still at work in the overwhelmed mind of the modern day loony conservative. We do not need this bullshit anymore. Fake intel, fake science. We do not need further disasters brought on, or exacerbated by, retarded, moronic right wingers... enough is enough. Do we really need another 800 stories like birthers and swiftboaters bring us?

Whats the difference between Bush's failures to act and the failure to act on climate? Neither Osama or Obama can fix up MMGW when critical mass is passed. Obama has a shot at fixing up Bush's mess even with the people who caused it lying, crying and denying at every turn..

Nero, you voted for Bush twice and his doctrine for the third time, then, a few years later, you casually slip in a comment like "Bush was an idiot, everyone knows that". Well, I guess your politicking and voting record doesnt ever have to come under scrutiny huh? Your choices would eliminate you on survivor or almost any game show. In nature you'd be discarded as a creature who simple couldn't adapt. You'd be broke in any casino, you'd be failed out of higher education institutions, you'd be laughed out of the scientific community..so.. when?

When are you going to rethink things? Never? I suppose so, by the sound of your crazy mantras and stupid websites. Enough is never enough because you think you can just laugh off all your poor choices or counter accuse your way out of historical facts. Thats what the 'welfare' you hate so much means. You can still play the game even when you suck at it and are caught cheating.

Welfare gives people who make poor choices, and/or suffer bad luck or fate, another chance to recover and survive. We used to shun them, stun them and make the bum for their daily bread. The right wing people of America are it's biggest welfare project ever. Since the days of sensitive, caring humanity we have helped the disabled and the disadvantaged... we didnt stop when this tumor of bad faith, science and politic started with right wing ding-a-lingism. They are different in this way.. they are not grateful for this forgiveness and understanding, they connive and distort to get power back to have another go at bankruptcy and disasters and total disregard for the collective..

Oil well, leave it to a rather large, ignorant fan base to cheer on retarded behaviour... sigh. We cant afford more arrogance and ignorance like we see in this clip.. it's got to end...now. The climate will deal blows far greater than cave dwelling billionaires ever could. We need to be a million times smarter than the dumb ass neocons.

If you havent seen enough, just look at how hard security is to maintain with freedom loving peoples who hire idiots to 'secure' them. You seem so content to run with people who get it wrong constantly and I suspect it's because you've never paid for your mistakes...
Why not bow out of the climate debate if you cant get real? You probably will sneak another seemingly innocuous comment in like- liberals ruined the air and water or some trashy lie like that.

We're here now morons, in the twenty first century. We dont wonder if germs cause disease, we used to, but DONT anymore. We evolved from primates too. Still saying nay to that? Lister and Semmelweiss struggled against the same arrogant deniers when they realized that germs could be very bad indeed... deadly as a matter of fact. The deniers should have just enjoyed their smug denials in germ rich, segregated hospitals...they'd be gone!
Darwin could be explaining to them, at this moment, why they died off like neanderthals...

We're asking people to start rethinking the climate, the planet, the atmosphere, the water etc. Stop with your Bushisms, they bring catastrophes whenever they're fronted... that is a fact and it is time to learn from them and ADVANCE your thinking.
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post #2031 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 07:08 PM
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I seriously doubt if dolts like Ahole51 and Gog would abandon their theory if WW avg temperatures dropped every year for the next 50 !
Way too fvckin' stvpid.
If temps dropped for 50 years of course I would admit the error. But they are rising and have been doing so for decades. You've seen several graphs that tell you what you need to know. Why do you continue to ignore the facts?

Have you heard of the god gene? It's a theory about why some people believe in god and some don't. I don't know if you're naive enough to believe in a bearded man in the sky who watches us all and lets us kill each other but I certainly suspect that you have what I call the flat earth gene. You just can't come to grips with reality unless it is visible...or unless it has been pounded into your brain since the day you were born (as in faith). Anyway, when you ignore data you expose yourself to ridicule. You ARE the new lunatic fringe . Ironic and unexpected, isn't it?

Did you order your Dummies book yet?

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
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post #2032 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 07:24 PM
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Did you order your Dummies book yet?
Have you been outside lately? It's cold.

Hey, what's the story behind your sig?

Obviously you're not a golfer.
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post #2033 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 09:18 PM
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I can't help but think of a few classic quotes by Mencken whenever the AGW debate comes up:

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
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post #2034 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mashuri View Post
I can't help but think of a few classic quotes by Mencken whenever the AGW debate comes up:

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule."

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
Where Mencken went wrong is that he didn't think of this.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and right."

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a real urge to save Humanity."

"
Most of the aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

That makes much more sense.

...Just when I thought it was safe to go back in the water......
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post #2035 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Le Kiwi View Post
Where Mencken went wrong is that he didn't think of this.

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and right."

"The urge to save humanity is almost always a real urge to save Humanity."

"
Most of the aim of politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary."

That makes much more sense.
You are every dictator's wet dream.
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post #2036 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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You are every dictator's wet dream.
Clink, clink !
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post #2037 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 11:30 PM
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Definitely time for a double. Thanks froggy, you made my day.
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post #2038 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 11:47 PM
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... le Kiwi,

They could stack a pile of failures to the moon and from there... look down at everyone else.
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post #2039 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-11-2009, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mashuri View Post
I can't help but think of a few classic quotes by Mencken whenever the AGW debate comes up:

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
All of them..lol

So when you hear 95% of earth's scientists warn you about rising temperatures on the planet, you soothe any concerns or worries by referring to the 100% imaginary hobgoblins quote? Nice..
What color is the sky in your world?
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post #2040 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-11-2009, 04:16 AM
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So why did the Neanderthals disappear from the earth? They did not lose a war to our direct forerunners. The forrests in Eurasia receeded without a single being cut and because of their body type they could not hunt and survive without cover. Thos trees went away because of natural climate change, the same type of change that has always and will always change with or without man. They did however survive for thousands more years. This is good news for us, as it will not take nearly as long for our need for fossil fuels to "naturally" subside as supply goes away. Then we will rely on greener resources. It does not matter what you fanatics want, we are not changing our ways until there is a cheaper alternative, so screw you communist bastards
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