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post #2001 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by twin-nut View Post
So when 95%+++ believed the earth was flat, would you have rather been in the minority or the majority?
I might tell you I thought it was flat because if you told church people what I was thinking, they'd be coming for me... gunning for me and my family... and my friends. You see, they had the same moronic philosophies that the modern right wingers have. The lying and spying crowd. They still think like they are god's gifts to the universe. They still believe in witches and warlocks, evil devils and misc. extended tripe. They have disobeyed the spirit of democratic governance and brought their inferior crap into politics... pox on em.

It gets old hearing about religion and party politics when it comes to supposed scientific theories. When science and politics mix on issues like this, nothing good comes of it. When we start running out of oil we will rely more heavily on alternatives.
Seems like an innocuous enough paragraph. Upon closer look, it reveals how woefully inept your understanding of nature, climate, energy and trade is. May as well wait to rely on something huh?

Get over it because that is the real world. Coppenhagen is doomed to failure right now because Russia wants to keep 100's of billions in carbon credits they have stockpiled beacuse their economy tanked in the 90's causing them to use less energy in industry and want to take credit for lowering carbon output due to their lousy economy. India and China and Brazil only want to lessen the steepness of the increase in production as their economies grow.
The conservative American leaders of a better grade, but distant past, would have led the way in this position. Not yell and screech foolish, backward and awkward accusations and innuendo in the name of anti this and that. Not listen to hucksters and shysters for gospel and direction. They're gone...

The right is bankrupt.
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post #2002 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 06:46 PM
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Nero, sorry but you are a talking like a moron.

If you claim there is no way to know, please shut up and let the smart people figure it out.
Damn sage advice there, Gog. If someone missed the science class day when the teacher told about greenhouse gases then maybe they are not qualified to weigh in on GW.

I wonder how many of the deniers are also birthers, or anti-choicers, or Sciavo nannies, or WMD saviors. To think that some of them make it to high office is a scary thought.

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #2003 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:06 PM
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Lies upon lies. That's what AGW is. It's all a huge con with one thing at the bottom of it, MONEY !
Are you serious? And the petrochem companies don't donate? Car companies? Shipping? Any immoral company wants business as usual because what matters to them is profit...over everything else. Unless you can show that the so-called green lobby pays more to policy makers than industry then I'll just consider yours to be the lies upon lies. Haven't you learned anything about business or real life?

If there is any appreciable warming of the Earth going on (and I do not believe there currently is)
No comment. The idiot digs his own grave.

Why not convert coal and gas fired elec plants in this country to nuclear ?
Because it costs obscene amounts of money, uranium is a finite resource, storage is not a solution, reprocessing creates plutonium, and decommissioning breaks the bank.
Why not let the consumer decide what type of vehicle they want to drive ?
Don't they? I see plenty of sub-15 mpg cars around.
Why not fund research on these avenues ??? Because it doesnt achieve what the radical environmental community really wants. Socialism.
Paranoia.

That's the bottom line.
The bottom line is that you're a child in a man's body. Go back to school and take that science class.:twocents

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #2004 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:06 PM
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It's that old 'desire over capability' dilemma. The right so desire to run things but are incapable of doing it without a war, creating man made disasters, or flubbing the response to natural ones, or losing and squandering the collective's net worth, endangering our future or a general ransacking of law and order.

Mars couldn't be ready soon enough..

They'd be well suited but seeing red if we dropped them off for an extended tour of Martian central for mundane mud patrol.
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post #2005 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:12 PM
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Predicting something as complex as climate with all of it's many ( and poorly understood ) variables 100 years into the future. Stupid at best.
Dumbshit, accumulating levels of greenhouse gases are in the atmoshpere and they don't go away over night. What's so hard to understand about that?You know what? They actually have machines that can measure gas concentrations. Greenhouse gas affect is an absolute fact. Ice core samples with trapped gas can be tested to show historical levels. The fossil record shows vegetative cycles and is datable. It all should fit like a glove. But no, you are O.J. Simpson. Do you realize how stupid you appear?

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #2006 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:24 PM
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Dumbshit, accumulating levels of greenhouse gases are in the atmoshpere and they don't go away over night. What's so hard to understand about that?You know what? They actually have machines that can measure gas concentrations. Greenhouse gas affect is an absolute fact. Ice core samples with trapped gas can be tested to show historical levels. The fossil record shows vegetative cycles and is datable. It all should fit like a glove. But no, you are O.J. Simpson. Do you realize how stupid you appear?
Are you being serious? Your so-called greenhouse gases do exist, as they always have. But your Greenhouse Effect Theory is just that -- a theory. After a couple more years of decreasing temperatures, hopefully you guys will look to worship elsewhere. This church is burning.

Obviously you're not a golfer.
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post #2007 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:31 PM
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Are you being serious? Your so-called greenhouse gases do exist, as they always have. But your Greenhouse Effect Theory is just that -- a theory. After a couple more years of decreasing temperatures, hopefully you guys will look to worship elsewhere. This church is burning.
If we're wrong it's party time!
If you're wrong we're in another quagmire so big that it will dwarf anything we've even known as the human race....
gee, I wonder if I'd listen to a dismissive, high fail rate ding-a-ling or a venerable scientist....
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post #2008 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:37 PM
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If we're wrong it's party time!
If you're wrong we're in another quagmire so big that it will dwarf anything we've even known as the human race....
gee, I wonder if I'd listen to a dismissive, high fail rate ding-a-ling or a venerable scientist....
I think you've brought up the "if I'm wrong... if you're wrong" idea a few times already. Hey, why don't you follow that same logic and find some religion, because that's where your silly argument is most often used.

Why do you think Al Gore is still lying and exagerrating to try and make his point? He's already made hundreds of millions of dollars and been annointed by you guys as some sort of god. But seriously, he could not be more full of shit, and you just eat it up! Weird, weird, weird...
Climategate: Gore falsifies the record | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog


Obviously you're not a golfer.
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post #2009 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 07:43 PM
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Are you being serious? Your so-called greenhouse gases do exist, as they always have. But your Greenhouse Effect Theory is just that -- a theory. After a couple more years of decreasing temperatures, hopefully you guys will look to worship elsewhere. This church is burning.
Have you STILL not heard that all theories are tested and that many are proven. Better look up "theory" as it relates to science. You're behind the curve.



And FYI, temps are up.

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #2010 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Baasinator View Post
I think you've brought up the "if I'm wrong... if you're wrong" idea a few times already. Hey, why don't you follow that same logic and find some religion, because that's where your silly argument is most often used.

Why do you think Al Gore is still lying and exagerrating to try and make his point? He's already made hundreds of millions of dollars and been annointed by you guys as some sort of god. But seriously, he could not be more full of shit, and you just eat it up! Weird, weird, weird...
Climategate: Gore falsifies the record | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog
Please Mr. "I'm not a conservative". Andrew Bolt ?

The planet is worth worshiping, men are transient fops juxtaposed to mother nature and father time. Gore is a cog in the gears of change to mitigate our growth and off gassing as a metastasizing and viral species. He's smarter, and infinitely more credible than 99% of right wingers and good for green ideology and sustainability. Green ideology is good for health AND business, whether you like it or it makes you cry bitch and moan. Stop double timing the crying routine when you observe someone making green money again... because you also cry if someone stops you from making money. Never hear you bitch about the wastage and failures of multi trillion dollar fiascoes spent by arrogant, ignorant deniers. War profiteering gets a by but global sustainability is a scam... go man go.

Human civilizations are viral because selfish idiots insit upon grabbing short term, high profits over sustainability, possessions and distractions over nature and honour etc.

We are all guilty but some are truly evil and pathologically indifferent to our children or themselves. They block, stall and deny. They think the human swelling can go on and on without adaptation or change of course, thats from our medieval mindset ding dong friends. Imagine that... a finite space and a growing mass, gee, does it take a rocket scientist to theorize as to what will happen? Are you now afraid of evil theorists?

Think of the rotten, unconscionable bastards who would plan to sell you addictive, drugged up smokes, under the lying knowledge that they're killers, and they'll sell you the pharmacueticals you'll need after chemo. well, I give you big oil big chemistry and big war.

But you morons cant get enough..heheh amazing.
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post #2011 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 09:40 PM
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For the price of an expensive pizza:

Global Warming For Dummies:Book Information - For Dummies

Maybe you too can help save the planet .
In case anyone missed it, it's for dummies.

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #2012 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Baasinator View Post
Are you being serious? Your so-called greenhouse gases do exist, as they always have. But your Greenhouse Effect Theory is just that -- a theory. After a couple more years of decreasing temperatures, hopefully you guys will look to worship elsewhere. This church is burning.
I seriously doubt if dolts like Ahole51 and Gog would abandon their theory if WW avg temperatures dropped every year for the next 50 !
Way too fvckin' stvpid.
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post #2013 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gog View Post
If we're wrong it's party time!
If you're wrong we're in another quagmire so big that it will dwarf anything we've even known as the human race....
gee, I wonder if I'd listen to a dismissive, high fail rate ding-a-ling or a venerable scientist....
Party time ? Are you fvckin' serious ? You and your ilk will have totally cratered the world's economies for decades. That's the really scary stuff.
Not the CO2 coming out of your and Ahole's mouth. Ahole's mouth, theres a vision.
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post #2014 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:41 PM
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Have you STILL not heard that all theories are tested and that many are proven. Better look up "theory" as it relates to science. You're behind the curve.
OK. Get back to me when you prove this particular theory...

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Originally Posted by Area 51 View Post
And FYI, temps are up.
Bullshit. It's cold. And that's the beauty of this issue. It's either warming or it isn't, right? And it quite obviously isn't...

Obviously you're not a golfer.
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post #2015 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:50 PM
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Tonite, Dec 4th, 2 weeks after the story first broke on the blogoshpere, NBC ran it's first mention of the climategate scandal. Welcome to the party, MSM !

It was preceded by news that Obamao has changed his itinerary for Copenhagen to a much abbreviated showing
It was followed immediately by snowy scenes from Houston.
Mann made GW is just about finished.
ABC got on board tonight...

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post #2016 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 11:09 PM
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You and your ilk will have totally cratered the world's economies for decades. That's the really scary stuff.
L O L !!!
What a dufus. You've changed history Nero? Or simply forgotten it? What stink you talk. The climate is not the only denial you're in.
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post #2017 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 11:49 PM
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You obviously don't follow Reality much, XFBO. But that's cool.
Oh yeah, we expect "User pays" type action, call it "Polluter pays", if you will. And we expect it from everyone, you, the Chinese, us, everyone.
No free lunch. We also expect the "poor nations" to make efforts on stopping logging, cutting back on over-population and picking their collective asses up out of the ditch.

France-Diplomatie

It's even in "Eeengleesh", so you can understand it.
As is this;

Sarkozy pledges action on global warmingUnveils measures to fight pollution

By James Mackenzie, Reuters | October 26, 2007
Sarkozy unveils measures for France to fight global warming - The Boston Globe
Yeah, baby !
LMAO.......that was written 2+ yrs ago, you boob. What's he done to date?

If he had half a brain he'd demand more evidence unlike the sheeple pack you run with.


Read it and baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa boys......I'm sure there will be more to follow by PROFESSIONALS in the industry unlike you MMGW worshipers, hey do yall have a symbol yet for your church?



Open Letter to Secretary-General of United Nations
His Excellency Ban Ki Moon
Secretary-General, United Nations
New York, NY
United States of America

8 December 2009

Dear Secretary-General,

Climate change science is in a period of ‘negative discovery’ - the more we learn about this exceptionally complex and rapidly evolving field the more we realize how little we know. Truly, the science is NOT settled.

Therefore, there is no sound reason to impose expensive and restrictive public policy decisions on the peoples of the Earth without first providing convincing evidence that human activities are causing dangerous climate change beyond that resulting from natural causes. Before any precipitate action is taken, we must have solid observational data demonstrating that recent changes in climate differ substantially from changes observed in the past and are well in excess of normal variations caused by solar cycles, ocean currents, changes in the Earth's orbital parameters and other natural phenomena.

We the undersigned, being qualified in climate-related scientific disciplines, challenge the UNFCCC and supporters of the United Nations Climate Change Conference to produce convincing OBSERVATIONAL EVIDENCE for their claims of dangerous human-caused global warming and other changes in climate. Projections of possible future scenarios from unproven computer models of climate are not acceptable substitutes for real world data obtained through unbiased and rigorous scientific investigation.

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post #2018 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 11:50 PM
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Part 2


Specifically, we challenge supporters of the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused climate change to demonstrate that:
  1. Variations in global climate in the last hundred years are significantly outside the natural range experienced in previous centuries;
  2. Humanity’s emissions of carbon dioxide and other ‘greenhouse gases’ (GHG) are having a dangerous impact on global climate;
  3. Computer-based models can meaningfully replicate the impact of all of the natural factors that may significantly influence climate;
  4. Sea levels are rising dangerously at a rate that has accelerated with increasing human GHG emissions, thereby threatening small islands and coastal communities;
  5. The incidence of malaria is increasing due to recent climate changes;
  6. Human society and natural ecosystems cannot adapt to foreseeable climate change as they have done in the past;
  7. Worldwide glacier retreat, and sea ice melting in Polar Regions , is unusual and related to increases in human GHG emissions;
  8. Polar bears and other Arctic and Antarctic wildlife are unable to adapt to anticipated local climate change effects, independent of the causes of those changes;
  9. Hurricanes, other tropical cyclones and associated extreme weather events are increasing in severity and frequency;
  10. Data recorded by ground-based stations are a reliable indicator of surface temperature trends.
It is not the responsibility of ‘climate realist’ scientists to prove that dangerous human-caused climate change is not happening. Rather, it is those who propose that it is, and promote the allocation of massive investments to solve the supposed ‘problem’, who have the obligation to convincingly demonstrate that recent climate change is not of mostly natural origin and, if we do nothing, catastrophic change will ensue. To date, this they have utterly failed to do so.



Signed by:
  1. Habibullo I. Abdussamatov, Dr. Sci., mathematician and astrophysicist, Head of the Russian-Ukrainian Astrometria project on the board of the Russian segment of the ISS, Head of Space Research Laboratory at the Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences, St. Petersburg, Russia
  2. Göran Ahlgren, docent organisk kemi, general secretary of the Stockholm Initiative, Professor of Organic Chemistry, Stockholm, Sweden
  3. Syun-Ichi Akasofu, PhD, Professor of Physics, Emeritus and Founding Director, International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, Alaska, U.S.A.
  4. J.R. Alexander, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Civil Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa; Member, UN Scientific and Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000, Pretoria, South Africa.
  5. Jock Allison, PhD, ONZM, formerly Ministry of Agriculture Regional Research Director, Dunedin, New Zealand
  6. Bjarne Andresen, PhD, dr. scient, physicist, published and presents on the impossibility of a "global temperature", Professor, The Niels Bohr Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark
  7. Timothy F. Ball, PhD, environmental consultant and former climatology professor, University of Winnipeg, Member, Science Advisory Board, ICSC, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
  8. Douglas W. Barr, BS (Meteorology, University of Chicago), BS and MS (Civil Engineering, University of Minnesota), Barr Engineering Co. (environmental issues and water resources), Minnesota, U.S.A.
  9. Romuald Bartnik, PhD (Organic Chemistry), Professor Emeritus, Former chairman of the Department of Organic and Applied Chemistry, climate work in cooperation with Department of Hydrology and Geological Museum, University of Lodz, Lodz, Poland
  10. Colin Barton, B.Sc., PhD, Earth Science, Principal research scientist (retd), Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
  11. Joe Bastardi, BSc, (Meteorology, Pennsylvania State), meteorologist, State College, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.
  12. Ernst-Georg Beck, Dipl. Biol. (University of Freiburg), Biologist, Freiburg, Germany
  13. David Bellamy, OBE, English botanist, author, broadcaster, environmental campaigner, Hon. Professor of Botany (Geography), University of Nottingham, Hon. Prof. Faculty of Engineering and Physical Systems, Central Queensland University, Hon. Prof. of Adult and Continuing Education, University of Durham, United Nations Environment Program Global 500 Award Winner, Dutch Order of The Golden Ark, Bishop Auckland County, Durham, U.K.
  14. M. I. Bhat, Professor & Head, Department of Geology & Geophysics, University of Kashmir, Srinagar, Jammu & Kashmir, India
  15. Ian R. Bock, BSc, PhD, DSc, Biological sciences (retired), Ringkobing, Denmark
  16. Sonja A. Boehmer-Christiansen, PhD, Reader Emeritus, Dept. of Geography, Hull University, Editor - Energy&Environment, Multi-Science (www.multi-science.co.uk), Hull, United Kingdom
  17. Atholl Sutherland Brown, PhD (Geology, Princeton University), Regional Geology, Tectonics and Mineral Deposits, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
  18. Stephen C. Brown, PhD (Environmental Science, State University of New York), District Agriculture Agent, Assistant Professor, University of Alaska Fairbanks, Ground Penetrating Radar Glacier research, Palmer, Alaska, U.S.A.
  19. James Buckee, D.Phil. (Oxon), focus on stellar atmospheres, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
  20. Dan Carruthers, M.Sc., Arctic Animal Behavioural Ecologist, wildlife biology consultant specializing in animal ecology in Arctic and Subarctic regions, Alberta, Canada
  21. Robert M. Carter, PhD, Professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook University, Townsville, Australia
  22. Dr. Arthur V. Chadwick, PhD, Geologist, dendrochronology (analyzing tree rings to determine past climate) lecturing, Southwestern Adventist University, Keene, Texas, U.S.A.
  23. George V. Chilingar, PhD, Member, Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow President, Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, U.S.A. Section, Emeritus Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.
  24. Ian D. Clark, PhD, Professor (isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology), Dept. of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
  25. Charles A. Clough, BS (Mathematics, Massachusetts Institute of Technology), MS (Atmospheric Science, Texas Tech University), former (to 2006) Chief of the US Army Atmospheric Effects Team at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland; now residing in Bel Air, Maryland, U.S.A.
  26. Paul Copper, BSc, MSc, PhD, DIC, FRSC, Professor Emeritus, Department of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
  27. Piers Corbyn, MSc (Physics (Imperial College London)), ARCS, FRAS, FRMetS, astrophysicist (Queen Mary College, London), consultant, founder WeatherAction long range forecasters, London, United Kingdom
  28. Allan Cortese, meteorological researcher and spotter for the National Weather Service, retired computer professional, Billerica, Massachusetts, U.S.A.
  29. Richard S. Courtney, PhD, energy and environmental consultant, IPCC expert reviewer, Falmouth, Cornwall, United Kingdom
  30. Susan Crockford, PhD (Zoology/Evolutionary Biology/Archaeozoology), Adjunct Professor (Anthropology/Faculty of Graduate Studies), University of Victoria, Victoria, British Colombia, Canada
  31. Claude Culross, PhD (Organic Chemistry), retired, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, U.S.A.
  32. Joseph D’Aleo, BS, MS (Meteorology, University of Wisconsin), Doctoral Studies (NYU), Executive Director - ICECAP (International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project), Fellow of the AMS, College Professor Climatology/Meteorology, First Director of Meteorology The Weather Channel, Hudson, New Hampshire, U.S.A.
  33. Chris R. de Freitas, PhD, Climate Scientist, School of Environment, The University of Auckland, New Zealand
  34. Willem de Lange, MSc (Hons), DPhil (Computer and Earth Sciences), Senior Lecturer in Earth and Ocean Sciences, Waikato University, Hamilton, New Zealand
  35. James DeMeo, PhD (University of Kansas 1986, Earth/Climate Science), now in Private Research, Ashland, Oregon, U.S.A.
  36. David Deming, PhD (Geophysics), Associate Professor, College of Arts and Sciences, University of Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma, U.S.A.

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post #2019 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 11:56 PM
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There were 141 signatures in total by ppl who work within the climate industry worldwide who have signed this letter. The rest can be seen here>

Welcome to the Copenhagen Climate Challenge Web Site


Finally, the end of this scam should be around the corner.

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Last edited by XFBO; 12-10-2009 at 12:40 PM.
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post #2020 of 3778 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 03:44 AM
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I wonder what the response will be.

"Well those are the 5% who don't believe the world is flat."
What do a bunch of "scientists" really know. They must be working under grants from big industry. A letter a couple years ago with similar concerns on the conclusion of climate research was signed by over 10000 researchers. The point being, true scientists need proof, not data that mearly correlated with the hypothesis they are trying to prove.

Ice core samples from one of the previous ice ages showed CO2 levels as high or higher than today's levels right before a period of profound cooling.

The nondeniers conclusions on the limited research does not stand up to the rigors of real scientific methhod.
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