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post #121 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-17-2015, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Baldy View Post
1. Rossi - have always liked him and admired his intelligence, quick thinking, race craft and ability to pull results out of the bag. Love how he's learned and changed his style and still has the drive and determination and will, to be champion. Clearly, the GOAT, for me. But I think he's handling of the MM retaliation, has been his weakest moment. I can understand those who don't like him, saying he sounds whiny on this stuff - despite the apparent validity of the reason(s) for his comments against MM.
Of course you go off the rails right away. It's only apparent to YOU! I've never seen anyone so far off base. OB has lost it!

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post #122 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-20-2015, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
I'd like to know how many fastest laps rossi has set on any given weekend in the last... hmmm... 5 years?

anyone want to chime in? fastest lap of the weekend would be a nice indicator of outright pace

From J. Ryder twitter feed Nov 12, not fastest laps but...


"Interesting stat - Laps led this year: Jorge 274, Marc 86, Vale 50, Dani 27, Dovi 10, Bradley 1."

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #123 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 04:15 PM
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I'd like to know how many fastest laps rossi has set on any given weekend in the last... hmmm... 5 years?

anyone want to chime in? fastest lap of the weekend would be a nice indicator of outright pace
It is an indicator of outright speed, but only in the very restrictive confines of what it is measuring - a single, solo, lap in the best conditions, with no other traffic around, and with no tire or track or weather problems, for a very short 2 mile distance. That's it!

It does not "indicate" whether a racer is going to win a race, as so many OTHER factors play an equally important role in that determination, including:
- ability to deal with traffic, other riders
- ability to pass effectively and quickly
- ability to defend a position
- ability to maintain tires and traction
- relative speed of the bike against the other bikes
- ability to deal with changing track and weather conditions
etc, etc, etc.

ALL of these things (and more) are what ultimately determines a racers relative speed against the other racers.

And, what a few folks here tend to forget, is that it is in these other things that Rossi tends to shine. He is NOT as fast as Jorge (or Marc) in overall, solo, good condition, lap times. Probably never has been.
But, he is a MASTER at many of these other, EQUALLY IMPORTANT, factors which determine a racer's ability to win races. He is, without doubt, the best racer in the world in terms of pulling off seemingly impossible passes (and is acknowledged as such by Marc and many other racers), and is a master at defending his position, and is a brilliant wet weather rider, and in managing his tires, and in managing changing conditions or bike issues.

Overall, in terms of what it takes to win a championship, he has shown and proven that he is right up there at the very top, with Jorge and Marc, despite NOT being as fast in solo, single-lap times as these other two. I don't think anyone would argue that Jorge is probably the worlds fastest racer on that measure, or that Rossi is slower than both of them, in that single measurement, or that Marc tends to have a little bit of Jorge and a lot of Rossi in his own make-up, which makes all three of them so close in terms of overall speed in a race.

The season's results show this to be true. (If we looked at fastest single lap times, then Jorge would have demolished the championship, Marc would have been second and Rossi third, and it was nothing like this, with Rossi leading the championship after nearly every race throughout the season.
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post #124 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 04:33 PM
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the reason I commented on his fastest laps vs the others has nothing to do with your argument baldy.

I asked the question because so many are arguing that Rossi had the speed to run down Pedro at sepang or lorenzo at pi and Lorenzo at valencia which simply isn't true if you look at his outright pace vs the others


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post #125 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wibbly View Post
the reason I commented on his fastest laps vs the others has nothing to do with your argument baldy.

I asked the question because so many are arguing that Rossi had the speed to run down Pedro at sepang or lorenzo at pi and Lorenzo at valencia which simply isn't true if you look at his outright pace vs the others
How would we know that?

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post #126 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-21-2015, 10:00 PM
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because when the other guys are on, Rossi can't hang with them. he couldn't all year. hence the large number of 2nd and 3rd place finishes.


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post #127 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-22-2015, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Baldy View Post
It is an indicator of outright speed, but only in the very restrictive confines of what it is measuring - a single, solo, lap in the best conditions, with no other traffic around, and with no tire or track or weather problems, for a very short 2 mile distance. That's it!

It does not "indicate" whether a racer is going to win a race, as so many OTHER factors play an equally important role in that determination, including:
- ability to deal with traffic, other riders
- ability to pass effectively and quickly
- ability to defend a position
- ability to maintain tires and traction
- relative speed of the bike against the other bikes
- ability to deal with changing track and weather conditions
etc, etc, etc.

ALL of these things (and more) are what ultimately determines a racers relative speed against the other racers.

And, what a few folks here tend to forget, is that it is in these other things that Rossi tends to shine. He is NOT as fast as Jorge (or Marc) in overall, solo, good condition, lap times. Probably never has been.
But, he is a MASTER at many of these other, EQUALLY IMPORTANT, factors which determine a racer's ability to win races. He is, without doubt, the best racer in the world in terms of pulling off seemingly impossible passes (and is acknowledged as such by Marc and many other racers), and is a master at defending his position, and is a brilliant wet weather rider, and in managing his tires, and in managing changing conditions or bike issues.

Overall, in terms of what it takes to win a championship, he has shown and proven that he is right up there at the very top, with Jorge and Marc, despite NOT being as fast in solo, single-lap times as these other two. I don't think anyone would argue that Jorge is probably the worlds fastest racer on that measure, or that Rossi is slower than both of them, in that single measurement, or that Marc tends to have a little bit of Jorge and a lot of Rossi in his own make-up, which makes all three of them so close in terms of overall speed in a race.

The season's results show this to be true. (If we looked at fastest single lap times, then Jorge would have demolished the championship, Marc would have been second and Rossi third, and it was nothing like this, with Rossi leading the championship after nearly every race throughout the season.
Couldn't of said it any better , shines on race day when it counts , has a hard time qualifying
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post #128 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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Doohan speaks

'No lines crossed in Marquez, Rossi clash'



MotoGP News - MotoGP: Doohan 'No lines crossed in Marquez, Rossi clash'

“No lines were crossed. Racing is racing and it was the same back in my era where you push and bang people around you,” ...


“It is not ballet dancing and it is fierce competition because there is a lot on the line, both of those guys are world champions and both of those guys are pushing for Grand Prix wins and neither of them want to forfeit a win. It made for great television, great reading and great entertainment and that is what MotoGP is.”

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #129 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 09:24 PM
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'No lines crossed in Marquez, Rossi clash'



MotoGP News - MotoGP: Doohan 'No lines crossed in Marquez, Rossi clash'

“No lines were crossed. Racing is racing and it was the same back in my era where you push and bang people around you,” ...


“It is not ballet dancing and it is fierce competition because there is a lot on the line, both of those guys are world champions and both of those guys are pushing for Grand Prix wins and neither of them want to forfeit a win. It made for great television, great reading and great entertainment and that is what MotoGP is.”
Interesting that Mick is on Rossi's side here. Should not have been penalized and should have started where he qualified. Good for him...to not get sucked into the sheep show.
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post #130 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting that Mick is on Rossi's side here. Should not have been penalized and should have started where he qualified. Good for him...to not get sucked into the sheep show.


Said. Doohan. Never. Nice attempt at spin though.



Man, it's going to be a long, long off season for you OB.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #131 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-24-2015, 03:13 AM
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Said. Doohan. Never. Nice attempt at spin though.



Man, it's going to be a long, long off season for you OB.
WHATTTT????

You're kidding, right?

If you get that Doohan was saying that the on track clash was racing as usual, then what are you thinking he meant?????? Weird.


Regarding the off season being long.....yeah, Michigan winters are way too long, but with you bunch of wankers to help lighten the mood, I'm going to continue to have a BLAST!!! Loved every minute of it so far hahaha!!!!

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post #132 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-26-2016, 01:42 AM
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Gardner and Phil Read pretty clear on their opinion that MM was the cause of the crash/issue and that VR was inappropriately penalized - just like half the racing world has been saying.

MotoGP News - MotoGP: Read, Gardner discuss Rossi, Marquez clash

Just thought I'd throw that out there for my friend BSESS and others....and the Michigan winter has been slow on the forums.

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post #133 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-26-2016, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #134 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-27-2016, 01:19 AM
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I'm a Rossi fan...

As most people my age, we grew up with out social media, so when someone ran there mouth, you filled it for them or simply beat them next time out on the field or track. Well as much respect as I have for the Dr and what he's done, I have to say that his s mouth show after Phillip Island brought the house down on him. MM won the race for him and then his best buddy passed him on the last lap.

Rossi, sorry but you brought it all down. Yes there was BS in the races after, but only after Rossi challenged the other aliens to a draw down.

He asked for it and in my day, he gets t what he asked for.

Still hope next year is just sit clean hard racing. I'm not on a side but am stating a OPINION!!

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Kevin/34: I pull that chin strap tight - "We're on a racetrack. We're out here riding motorcycles. You put your helmet on, you pull that chin strap tight, there should be nothing but a smile on your face. Because what the hell else would you rather be doing?"
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post #135 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-27-2016, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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As most people my age, we grew up with out social media, so when someone ran there mouth, you filled it for them or simply beat them next time out on the field or track. Well as much respect as I have for the Dr and what he's done, I have to say that his s mouth show after Phillip Island brought the house down on him. MM won the race for him and then his best buddy passed him on the last lap.

Rossi, sorry but you brought it all down. Yes there was BS in the races after, but only after Rossi challenged the other aliens to a draw down.

He asked for it and in my day, he gets t what he asked for.

Still hope next year is just sit clean hard racing. I'm not on a side but am stating a OPINION!!
Same or similar social media free generation (X) same opinion.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #136 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-30-2016, 01:32 AM
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Why? It's had the desired response from you, not so? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


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post #137 of 141 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 03:35 AM
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From #34....

Soup :: Schwantz: "The Only Thing Valentino Did Wrong ..." :: 02-08-2016

Know God, Know Peace
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Kevin/34: I pull that chin strap tight - "We're on a racetrack. We're out here riding motorcycles. You put your helmet on, you pull that chin strap tight, there should be nothing but a smile on your face. Because what the hell else would you rather be doing?"
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post #138 of 141 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 07:45 AM
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Am looking forward to talking with Kevin again at COTA this year. He spends a lot of time in the VIP lounge and makes himself available to the fans....a very cool guy.
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post #139 of 141 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Agree completely with Kevin on this because TBH I and others had said this during the whole debacle - where was management in this? Jarvis and Yamaha were silent.

I still contend this would not have happened had Burgess been around.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop
The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #140 of 141 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 06:14 AM
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Am looking forward to talking with Kevin again at COTA this year. He spends a lot of time in the VIP lounge and makes himself available to the fans....a very cool guy.
He's lucky he's allowed on the grounds at all. He should be very gracious.

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