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post #81 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 06:55 PM
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what scares me the most is the implications of rossi's accusations and how willingly the rossi-nation bought into them. this will be VERY damaging to the sport because once these accusations are made, viewers will watch every race differently. everyone thought philip island was the race of the year until rossi made his claims. nobody said a word until rossi did, and once he said it, instantly millions of people agreed with him and started the fight that will likely never end.


from here on out we can expect MILLIONS of rossi fans to cry foul any time anyone beats him. it's a damn shame and it'll be bad for the sport.
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post #82 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 06:58 PM
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I wish Rossi had been able to start the race at Valencia from the 1st or 2nd row (or wherever he would have qualified) because short of ramming Marquez, the results would have been the same. He didn't have the pace to run with either Jorge or the two Repsol Hondas as CLEARLY evidenced by the timesheets. Rossi only managed 2 laps in the 1:31 second range (this in the early stages while dicing with traffic) while Jorge ran 22 blazing laps in the 1:31s so even after Valentino got through the field and had nothing but clear track in front of him, Jorge and the Hondas were leaving him in the dust (and still would have had he started from the 1st or 2nd row) by some 6-8 seconds.

Love him or hate him, Lorenzo won more races, led more laps, set more fastest laps and was clearly the faster of the two Yamaha Factory riders.

And as far as Rossi blaming Marquez for losing the Title to Jorge, below is an interesting commentary that I believe puts forth a sound minded perspective on the entire affair:

Opinion: Marquez didn?t cost Rossi the MotoGP title ? Rossi did


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post #83 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 08:53 PM
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I wish Rossi had been able to start the race at Valencia from the 1st or 2nd row (or wherever he would have qualified) because short of ramming Marquez, the results would have been the same. [/url]
You nor I can say this with any degree of certainty. Rossi ran 31s all through practice. Please stop stating your opinions as facts. You're not going to convince people who already have their minds made up.

When you have a rabbit in front of you or a slightly faster rider in front of you it's actually easier to run the laps. If Rossi had started on the 1st two rows, I'm not saying he would've won, it's probably a given that he would NOT have, but the potential for a different result would've certainly been there. Any genius knows that when you're 7 seconds down with 10 laps to go the race is not going to come back to you unless the leaders have an issue or you can outrun them by 5 tenths or more per second. Which he simply was unable to do. So why risk it? He had no choice but to settle in 4th and hope for misfortune. Especially considering all the front tire issues everyone had throughout the weekend. Rossi no doubt beat up those tires really good slicing through all the slow pokes. (on a side note, this makes Pedrosa's ride all the more impressive!)

Lorenzo was certainly the fastest of the two. Nobody is disputing that. Not even Rossi. Nobody can take anything away from Jorge either. All everyone is saying is that this series wreaked of BS. ....and that's a valid opinion. Just like you are entitled to yours. This whole mess isn't Jorge's fault either. It's a real mess.

Rossi fans as well as neutral viewers are taking Rossi's perspective over yours and that's fair given the fact that Rossi actually raced. lol and Jorge ADMITTED that Marquez rode mellow against him. Those are facts.

Agree to disagree or simply just agree. It doesn't really matter at this point.

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post #84 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 09:01 PM
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what scares me the most is the implications of rossi's accusations and how willingly the rossi-nation bought into them. this will be VERY damaging to the sport because once these accusations are made, viewers will watch every race differently.
I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it'll result in more diversity and not be the Spain show.

Out of 24 riders, how many are Spanish?

About 11

Lorenzo
Marquez
Pedrosa
P Espargaro
A Espargaro
M Vinales
Y Hernandez
H Barbera
A Bautista
T Elias
A De Angelis

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post #85 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:14 PM
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You nor I can say this with any degree of certainty. Rossi ran 31s all through practice. Please stop stating your opinions as facts. You're not going to convince people who already have their minds made up.

When you have a rabbit in front of you or a slightly faster rider in front of you it's actually easier to run the laps. If Rossi had started on the 1st two rows, I'm not saying he would've won, it's probably a given that he would NOT have, but the potential for a different result would've certainly been there. Any genius knows that when you're 7 seconds down with 10 laps to go the race is not going to come back to you unless the leaders have an issue or you can outrun them by 5 tenths or more per second. Which he simply was unable to do. So why risk it? He had no choice but to settle in 4th and hope for misfortune. Especially considering all the front tire issues everyone had throughout the weekend. Rossi no doubt beat up those tires really good slicing through all the slow pokes. (on a side note, this makes Pedrosa's ride all the more impressive!)

Lorenzo was certainly the fastest of the two. Nobody is disputing that. Not even Rossi. Nobody can take anything away from Jorge either. All everyone is saying is that this series wreaked of BS. ....and that's a valid opinion. Just like you are entitled to yours. This whole mess isn't Jorge's fault either. It's a real mess.

Rossi fans as well as neutral viewers are taking Rossi's perspective over yours and that's fair given the fact that Rossi actually raced. lol and Jorge ADMITTED that Marquez rode mellow against him. Those are facts.

Agree to disagree or simply just agree. It doesn't really matter at this point.
We can certainly agree to disagree. Practice times with different track temps are irrelevant, however. Lorenzo ran 22 laps from the front with no rabbit or benefit of drafting in the 1:31s. Rossi, could't manage any when he had 13-15 laps of clear track in front of him. That's FACT. He had nothing to lose or risk by going as fast as he possibly could and yet he was unable to match the lap times of the top three. Other than taking Marquez of Jorge out had he the benefit of a 1st or 2nd row start, there was no way he was going to finish ahead of Lorenzo, Marquez or Pedrosa this Sunday. The actual race lap times are the facts and they don't lie.

There is also a massive number of neutral viewers who support the view that wholly disagree with Rossi's perspective. That too is a fact.


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post #86 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:25 PM
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I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it'll result in more diversity and not be the Spain show.

Out of 24 riders, how many are Spanish?

About 11

Lorenzo
Marquez
Pedrosa
P Espargaro
A Espargaro
M Vinales
Y Hernandez
H Barbera
A Bautista
T Elias
A De Angelis

and why do you suppose that is? because the best riders are bred in spain? probably


should we boycott the nhl because there are too many canadians? or is it because canada lives and breathes hockey, the way spain lives and breathes motorcycle racing.


where the rider is from is irrelevant, all those guys want to win


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post #87 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:45 PM
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We can certainly agree to disagree. Practice times with different track temps are irrelevant, however. Lorenzo ran 22 laps from the front with no rabbit or benefit of drafting in the 1:31s. Rossi, could't manage any when he had 13-15 laps of clear track in front of him. That's FACT. He had nothing to lose or risk by going as fast as he possibly could and yet he was unable to match the lap times of the top three. Other than taking Marquez of Jorge out had he the benefit of a 1st or 2nd row start, there was no way he was going to finish ahead of Lorenzo, Marquez or Pedrosa this Sunday. The actual race lap times are the facts and they don't lie.

There is also a massive number of neutral viewers who support the view that wholly disagree with Rossi's perspective. That too is a fact.

Sorry, you lost me when you said that practice is irrelevant. ......and you keep stating your opinions as fact.
Quote:
Other than taking Marquez of Jorge out had he the benefit of a 1st or 2nd row start, there was no way he was going to finish ahead of Lorenzo, Marquez or Pedrosa this Sunday.
I'm trying to work with you here but you're not making it easy.

Quote:
Rossi, couldn't manage any when he had 13-15 laps of clear track in front of him. That's FACT.
So my question to you is, how do you know that he decided to manage his position in 4th once he realized how far ahead the other 3 were? Rossi had no problem running 31s all weekend. Do you even have a Moto GP subscription? If not, please stop posting because it's not so black and white like you're trying to make it seem.


Practice times are irrelevant. hahaha You were messing with me right?
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post #88 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:49 PM
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Anyone who states that Rossi did not have the speed to run with the top three, is either not thinking things through clearly, or is so biased as to suffer from a temporary logic block, or is making a very, very, tenuous assumption, and assuming it as fact!

1. Rossi had to fight his way through 20 of the top racers in the world to get to P4 by lap #13 of the 30 lap race.

2. Rossi was over 13 seconds adrift of Lorenzo at that point, and over 12.6s behind MM, who was right behind JL, in order to secure the championship.

3. That calculates at 0.74s/lap he would have had to be faster than JL/MM to catch them, and 0.79s/lap he would have to be faster than JL/MM to leave himself 1 lap to figure out a pass on MM to win the championship.

4. This with tires which have already been stressed to the max in passing 20 other racers as he did.

I'd suggest that Rossi knew all this, and deducted that there was no possible way he was going to be 0.8s faster than the front two, without either crashing or stressing his tires so much as to possible cause an even bigger disaster, and have Dovi repass him, who was right behind him.

I'd suggest that the BEST that Rossi could have hoped for (as we all assumed long before the race started) was that either Danni or MM would pass JL for the win, giving Rossi some chance at winning the championship.

We know how that went.....with Lorenzo admitting that they were a Spanish team to retain the title in Spain.

If I was Rossi, I'd probably be even less restrained than he was, in this entire situation.

Just remember, RD privately dressed down MM after Sepang, for his unsportsmanlike racing with Rossi while not being in contention of the championship himself. That is now a known fact. RD considered MM's behavior sufficient to "dress him down" about it, in a private session with MM.

I think we can all surely agree that if MM had not "raced" Rossi as enthusiastically (euphemism) as he had, at Sepang, none of this would have happened. Rossi would not have run MM wide, MM would not have crashed into Rossi, Rossi would have started near the front in Valencia with 3 extra points, and the championship would have DEFINITELY been in contention for Rossi.

I agree, there is a lot of bias on both sides here. The way we see things is interesting, and we can't believe how someone else sees things so differently, from a single set of facts. Amazing stuff. :-)

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post #89 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:49 PM
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and why do you suppose that is? because the best riders are bred in spain? probably


should we boycott the nhl because there are too many canadians? or is it because canada lives and breathes hockey, the way spain lives and breathes motorcycle racing.


where the rider is from is irrelevant, all those guys want to win
No.

Dorna is a Spanish company and the bias is clearly towards Spaniards to land rides in GP. There's a lot of other talent out there that simply won't ever get the break because the priority right now is towards Spanish riders. It was different in the 90s but there has definitely been a cultural shift as of late.

Who watches Hockey anyway?!

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post #90 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:50 PM
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turbo


in a dry race on a track that's notoriously hard to pass on, rossi isn't going to beat lorenzo. jorge was absolutely on it, period.

MM managed to match lorenzo's speed for the whole race, so its fair to say he's not catching MM either


and that is the championship.


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post #91 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:52 PM
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No.

Dorna is a Spanish company and the bias is clearly towards Spaniards to land rides in GP. There's a lot of other talent out there that simply won't ever get the break because the priority right now is towards Spanish riders. It was different in the 90s but there has definitely been a cultural shift as of late.

Who watches Hockey anyway?!


look at that list of riders. the top 6 are VERY VERY good, and absolutely deserve to be there. the bottom 5 are still solid.

i'd argue that there are quite a few non-spanish riders who don't deserve their place in MGP at the moment. not vice versa


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post #92 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-10-2015, 11:59 PM
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we can't believe how someone else sees things so differently, from a single set of facts. Amazing stuff. :-)
What scares me more is that some of these people are Doctors that cut people open.

Others are Lawyers and Financial Advisors who while attending a track day will be the retard that asks what the meatball flag is for again after they already ran down all the flags or will nearly kill you on track because they don't obey the pit out rules.

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post #93 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:01 AM
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turbo


in a dry race on a track that's notoriously hard to pass on, rossi isn't going to beat lorenzo. jorge was absolutely on it, period..
I agree. ...and I never stated otherwise. So what point are you trying to make? That Jorge is the rightful champ? I'm cool with that too.

That doesn't mean that BS didn't happen out there on the track though. ....and that is what is in question.

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post #94 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:06 AM
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turbo


in a dry race on a track that's notoriously hard to pass on, rossi isn't going to beat lorenzo. jorge was absolutely on it, period.

MM managed to match lorenzo's speed for the whole race, so its fair to say he's not catching MM either


and that is the championship.
That's a VERY tenuous assumption. Rossi did not need to beat JL here, to win the championship.
If only your final statements were true....that Lorenzo could have won the championship without help, fair and straight, from Rossi. THAT I could live with very comfortably...and said so, numerous times, early this season. But that's not how it happened.

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post #95 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:06 AM
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look at that list of riders. the top 6 are VERY VERY good, and absolutely deserve to be there. the bottom 5 are still solid.

i'd argue that there are quite a few non-spanish riders who don't deserve their place in MGP at the moment. not vice versa
And.....
Marquez should've never gotten the factory ride in his rookie year, and Pedrosa has 10 years without producing a championship.

They're good but they've gotten big breaks.

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post #96 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:18 AM
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Marc shouldn't have gotten a factory ride? he won his rookie season and defended it. how could he be less deserving?

what about Jorge? he went straight to factory and has multiple championships.


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post #97 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:25 AM
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Marc shouldn't have gotten a factory ride? he won his rookie season and defended it. how could he be less deserving?

what about Jorge? he went straight to factory and has multiple championships.
Dude Come'on. Moto GP has a rookie rule where they don't get factory rides. They have to start on a satellite team. You know this.

They broke/amended the rule for Marquez. He won, sure. But the whole deal was BS.

If that's the case, Ben Spies should've gotten the factory ride in his rookie year and he didn't.

It's politics man.... and a bias towards Spain.

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post #98 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:29 AM
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post #99 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 12:40 AM
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what about lorenzo's factory ride? or are we just going to ignore that because it doesn't help your point


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post #100 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-11-2015, 02:54 AM
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