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post #21 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-30-2015, 03:36 AM
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Wrong on #9 because Rossi is so far wide of the actual racing line (and slowed so substantially) as to not allow MM to stay on track without trying to turn in. Immediately after MM goes down, Rossi THEN begins to with about a foot of track remaining. Having the inside line, a rider is allowed plenty of leeway to alter his own line. In this particular case however, Rossi not only deliberately forced MM far beyond anything remotely close to a line usable at normal race speeds, he deliberately continued to brake/slow down so as to prevent MM from having anywhere else to go if not off the track or into Rossi. That's that simple fact and the reason why Vale was penalized, first by RD and then upheld by the FIM. If anyone in MotoGP could have gotten away with such a plainly reckless act of riding behavior it certainly would have been Rossi but the facts outweighed even Rossi's legend and commercial importance to the sport.
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post #22 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-30-2015, 07:10 AM
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Wrong on #9 because Rossi is so far wide of the actual racing line (and slowed so substantially) as to not allow MM to stay on track without trying to turn in. Immediately after MM goes down, Rossi THEN begins to with about a foot of track remaining. Having the inside line, a rider is allowed plenty of leeway to alter his own line. In this particular case however, Rossi not only deliberately forced MM far beyond anything remotely close to a line usable at normal race speeds, he deliberately continued to brake/slow down so as to prevent MM from having anywhere else to go if not off the track or into Rossi. That's that simple fact and the reason why Vale was penalized, first by RD and then upheld by the FIM. If anyone in MotoGP could have gotten away with such a plainly reckless act of riding behavior it certainly would have been Rossi but the facts outweighed even Rossi's legend and commercial importance to the sport.
I'm curious why you think that MM could not have avoided Rossi. Rossi was in front, and running wide, purposely. If MM had his wits about him instead of the red fog in his eyes, he could have slowed (as Rossi planned and expected him to do) and not to decide to turn into Rossi as he did. The real point, though, is that MM decided to fight the close quarters battle with Rossi right from the word go....and AGAIN..lost the plot.

Or....actually achieved precisely what he was wanting all along. You take your pick. The end result is that this idiocy has hurt Rossi much more than MM, who was out of it much earlier in the season.
The little spoiler prick.

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post #23 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 08:42 PM
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Just read that some Italian journalists attacked MM when they returned home from a ride.

I hope they are arrested and charged....that is beyond ridiculous.

Much as we have fun here talking about the incident and disagreeing with each other, physical violence outside the track on a personal level like this needs to be dealt with...and harshly. Craziness.

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post #24 of 141 (permalink) Old 10-31-2015, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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1. I don't believe MM and JL have an agreement.

2. Both of them CLEARLY would prefer to not have Rossi win the Championship.

3. JL because he wants to win it.

4. MM because he feels Rossi caused him to crash multiple times this season and LOSE any chance he has of the championship. His own manager says this is the case.

5. JL SHOULD have only "done his job" - unfortunately, he did NOT. He broke into the RD meeting that had nothing to do with him to complain about Rossi and demand that RD punish Rossi, when the events on the track had NOTHING to do with him. He acted like a little prick.

6. It was quite CLEAR to EVERYONE with a brain what MM was doing in this last race.

7. It was not as clear in Australia until Rossi brought it up. And, Iannone AGREED with Rossi that MM was purposely slowing them down.

8. MM let JL go by in this last race like a back marker lets a lapping rider through, without even a HINT of a challenge. THAT was as CLEAR as daylight to anyone with a brain.

9. Yes, Rossi pushed MM wide. He had the racing line. He was in front. According to the rules, he has choice of line as long as he is not riding dangerously. There was ZERO danger in his line. MM drove straight back into him, as was bound to happen with the way the little prick was riding.

10. One can only assume that RD did not punish MM again, because he fell off and received no points anyway. I firmly believe the little twat should be taught a lesson and should have collect much more sanction than simply losing points because he crashed into Rossi and fell. He has ridden like this, crashed into and tried to dominate other racers repeatedly throughout his career.

Marc (sic!) my words...he is going to end up badly hurting himself or someone else if he continues to ride like a moron. RD should take the necessary action.

I predict that Bot will win the next race and MM will again let JL through if Rossi is in 6th or better position. Watch for it....
FWIW I enjoy the discussions. You're ''talking me down'' into actually watching this debacle finish next weekend with less pessimism in mind going in.

1. Agreed

2. Yup, for sure now.

3. Yup.

4. Has Emilio Alzamora confirmed that? Rossi seems to be the only witness to this conversation. MM IMO could have cared less. No one seemed to ''see anything'' until rossi saw it, including MM.

5. Disagree. Of course the results of that hearing impacted him. JLo had a stiffer penalty for this in a previous event and was looking for parity, parity we all know doesn't exist in MGP as long as rossi is there. For this lack of parity I don't blame rossi, I blame the governing bodies who allowed this situation to happen. To a lesser extent I blame Yamaha. JLo would have done his job if Yamaha had done theirs. TBF Yamaha had the unenviable situation of two riders competing for a title with one facing penalty and one not being properly represented; supporting one will be injurious to the other. Overall, pointing out the hypocrisy of MGP when it comes to certain riders is never an issue imo.

6. Julian Ryder and Steve Parrish would disagree. As would lap times. rossi arguing he would have been there with Dani is inane, he was no where near Dani all weekend.

7. Iannone, is that an Italian name? Come on, this has clearly caused riders to choose sides and would Iannone really get any peace saying rossi was wrong. Didn't you hear about what happened in Spain to MM's family? Imagine Iannone's in Italy. Iannone was on rossi's side without having to view the tape. Besides,this is political. Iannone is not going to blow future opportunities in Italy or with rossi over this.

8. Again Ryder et al would disagree. Laptimes disagree as well.

9. Disagree. Another poster gives some good pts on this.

10. RD nor Yamaha saw fit to punish MM or lodge a protest for PI or Sepang. Neither is known to be kind to MM or forgiving. Jarvis would have done something, lodged a complaint if he saw evidence of malfeasance.

I think MM should ride smarter, yes, but I also think rossi needs to be careful. This whole debacle was decidedly un-rossi like. Ryder comments on how drawn and haggard rossi looked in the last few races. This season has taken a toll. Hopefully he isn't pushed too far beyond his limits keeping up.

A good read.

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/moto/how-...77/story.shtml

Only thing I will add is that your assessment doesn't include, by omission or comission, an assessment of rossi's actions in this debacle.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #25 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 05:05 AM
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One thing that never changes is Rossi fans since the beginning of his 500/Moto GP career have always tried hard to assassinate the character of his main rivals. Biaggi, Gibernau, Stoner, Lorenzo, Marquez and even Hayden have been ridiculed on forums like this one.

I predicted that there would be fireworks between Rossi and Marquez before the race at Sepang on another website, Rossi and Marquez share the same personality traits and Rossi using a press conference to accuse Marquez of sandbagging was intentional to get this kind of response from Marc.By doing this Rossi has a scapegoat for losing the championship in his and his fans eyes. He may as well have just stood up and poked Marc in the chest, he provoked Marquez and got what he wanted, an excuse for losing.

At this point Rossi is extremely jealous of the pure speed of Marquez and knows there is a real possibility that Marquez can wipe Rossi's name off the record books in every category.

Rossi see's his chances of ever winning a championship disappearing and if it doesn't happen this year I don't see any realistic chance ever again with Marquez, Lorenzo and Pedrosa on the track and healthy.

What is interesting is the number of race wins for Rossi and Lorenzo since Lorenzo came into the class, Stoner also has won way more than Rossi in that time too.


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post #26 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 12:57 PM
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4. Has Emilio Alzamora confirmed that? Rossi seems to be the only witness to this conversation. MM IMO could have cared less. No one seemed to ''see anything'' until rossi saw it, including MM.

.....

7. Iannone, is that an Italian name? Come on, this has clearly caused riders to choose sides and would Iannone really get any peace saying rossi was wrong. Didn't you hear about what happened in Spain to MM's family? Imagine Iannone's in Italy. Iannone was on rossi's side without having to view the tape. Besides,this is political. Iannone is not going to blow future opportunities in Italy or with rossi over this.
Alzamora cannot come out and state what he told Rossi publicly, He would be so quickly out of a job for supporting a Yamaha rider over his Honda student that he wouldn't know what hit him.

Iannone - Italian, sure. Just as MM and Lorenzo and Repsol and Pedrosa are Spanish.

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post #27 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 04:19 PM
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If Rossi (rightfully) believes this is his last chance to win a championship you wonder if he will continue next year. Sure he has the all-time win record of Ago to chase, but without big bike title #8, he won't catch Ago in that important stat.

It took a lot of coincidences for him to be in this position to win. Marquez crashed several times. Dani had arm surgery within the season. Lorenzo had some bad luck (TWO helmet malfunctions?) and a crash or two as well as a shoulder injury. Any of those things didn't happen to these three, and it would be them claiming the title next weekend. This could have been Dani's year had he elected to have surgery in the off-season...

So back to Rossi, I put it 50/50 he retires if he doesn't win the championship.




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post #28 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 04:34 PM
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g.

At this point Rossi is extremely jealous of the pure speed of Marquez and knows there is a real possibility that Marquez can wipe Rossi's name off the record books in every category.

.
Not sure how a young, bright, fast champion capable of doing this can also toss away a season for no reason with crashes

Yes MM is a great rider but podiums win championships, tough to do when you are riding over your head or getting up out of the sand trap

I am not sure Rossi is jealous of the speed which really is about the bike right? The ducati was blowing down the straights past the Honda and Yamaha but i doubt Rossi is jealous about that either, who knows though.

Nobody at the end of their GOAT career wants to roll over and give up, or watch some snot nosed punk act the way MM does nor take any shite looking for a 10th title.





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post #29 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Alzamora cannot come out and state what he told Rossi publicly, He would be so quickly out of a job for supporting a Yamaha rider over his Honda student that he wouldn't know what hit him.

Iannone - Italian, sure. Just as MM and Lorenzo and Repsol and Pedrosa are Spanish.
It's very hard to disprove an untrue statement. Even if Alza comes out immediately after and denies it no one will believe him.

My subtle, perhaps too subtle, point was, only rossi heard this, just as only rossi saw the PI interference where Yamaha and everyone still hasn't seen it and neither Yamaha or RD have done a thing about it since. No protest from Yamaha which can be filed after the fact, nothing from RD.

The press have commented on how haggard and disorganized rossi appears lately. The championship is taking its toll. Perhaps seeing threats where there aren't any.

What rossi has accused MM of is impossible to invalidate. MM cannot invalidate an alliance with JLo, or interference on the track because once it is suggested, everybody sees it. Suddenly. Despite the lap times and issues he has had all season with the Honda that have been well documented. Suddenly that goes out the window because there's a more juicy storyline and where the truth lies is somewhere in between.

I'm missing your point putting Dani and JLo in the same light as Iannone. Dani took no sides in this to my knowledge. He said it was bad for the sport. JLo is racing for a championship and had a valid pt considering he recieved a harsher penalty for the same infraction. How is their ethnicity a factor in their actions? Whereas Iannone, his career is tenuous comparatively and he can use all the assistance (rossi) he can get. Being Italian and saying rossi was wrong wouldn't aid him would it.

You still haven't addressed rossi culpability in this BTW.

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post #30 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-01-2015, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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If Rossi (rightfully) believes this is his last chance to win a championship you wonder if he will continue next year. Sure he has the all-time win record of Ago to chase, but without big bike title #8, he won't catch Ago in that important stat.

It took a lot of coincidences for him to be in this position to win. Marquez crashed several times. Dani had arm surgery within the season. Lorenzo had some bad luck (TWO helmet malfunctions?) and a crash or two as well as a shoulder injury. Any of those things didn't happen to these three, and it would be them claiming the title next weekend. This could have been Dani's year had he elected to have surgery in the off-season...

So back to Rossi, I put it 50/50 he retires if he doesn't win the championship.
I think he is more motivated to come back now than ever. Whatever is going on, real or imagined, rossi believes it and certainly feels slighted and disrespected. Win or lose he wants to remove the blemish of these past few weeks as much as possible from his record and give people something else to remember him by, even if he wins the title. Plus he will want to defend the title.

I expect something akin to Schwantz - a mid season drop in form due to old injuries and/or a dominate run by the 3 Spaniards putting him well out of contention, and newcomers will see a mid-season or early season retirement announcement / farewell tour la Jeter in the next few seasons. It may be next yr or the yr after IMO. I cannot envision an end of season announcement.

Besides Dorna et al is going to definitely keep pushing him / paying him to return. Another couple of top shelf riders on the grid and then they can let him go. If Simo and Stoner were still there we would possibly have seen retirement, possibly this yr or last, as that would have been another set of talents in the top 5 to contend with / MGP to promote.

I follow all sports and the one thing you hate to see is overstaying your welcome at the top. But as much as rossi owns MGP, MGP owns him.

His pace is still at a high level, but the work, the physical prep, the mental concentration, required is much much greater. Sooner or later he will crack and we are seeing some of that stress now. Can he carry it for another 2 seasons and be in contention is highly debatable. I just hope he does it safely and retires on his terms not la Schwantz or worse Rainey or Simo.

I just think of Senna and think every racer should listen to the call when it comes.

Dang, sorry to be such a downer.
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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #31 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 12:22 AM
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Good points regarding his retirement. Note that Rossi and others have stated 2016 to be a start from scratch year for all given new tires and electronics. I bet he thinks an even playing field will give him a decent shot at the title next year too. This year is a good example of luck breaking his way along with his consistency.

I think a lot will depend on how bitter of a taste this leaves in his mouth. As much as a fan favorite he has been, I think he has made some bold moves in the past that didn't make any sense to his fans... leaving Honda, then leaving Yamaha for Ducati, and then coming back to Yamaha as #2 rider instead of retiring. I think the common theme for him has been, he has always had FUN.

If this season ends in a bitter way and he stops having fun, I can see him calling it quits, win or lose this year.
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post #32 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Different angle to consider.


Honda press release discusses, among other things, the fact that after MM crashed and rossi had an open track, his lap times were no faster then during the battle with MM.


Like I said, look at the lap times.

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Quote:
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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #33 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 04:32 PM
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Different angle to consider.


Honda press release discusses, among other things, the fact that after MM crashed and rossi had an open track, his lap times were no faster then during the battle with MM.


Like I said, look at the lap times.
Agreed, but you could argue the damage was done and he was too far to have a real shot at catching up with Lorenzo and had a pretty safe 3rd. You can also imagine Rossi knowing he screwed up BIG time and would most likely have a penalty... would you be able to ride flat out with all that on your mind. At this point it is all speculation from everyone on the outside. We will never know the TRUE facts... those will stay within MM and Rossi's head.

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post #34 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 05:30 PM Thread Starter
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Agreed, but you could argue the damage was done and he was too far to have a real shot at catching up with Lorenzo and had a pretty safe 3rd. You can also imagine Rossi knowing he screwed up BIG time and would most likely have a penalty... would you be able to ride flat out with all that on your mind. At this point it is all speculation from everyone on the outside. We will never know the TRUE facts... those will stay within MM and Rossi's head.

Yup I was think the same things, as well as an argument around tire degradation, would come into play.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #35 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 06:01 PM
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I find it interesting that the Data logs says MM front brake was applied at the same time as the video shoes Val's leg going down. At least that is what Honda is saying.

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post #36 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 06:19 PM
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Agreed, but you could argue the damage was done and he was too far to have a real shot at catching up with Lorenzo and had a pretty safe 3rd. You can also imagine Rossi knowing he screwed up BIG time and would most likely have a penalty... would you be able to ride flat out with all that on your mind. At this point it is all speculation from everyone on the outside. We will never know the TRUE facts... those will stay within MM and Rossi's head.
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post #37 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 06:21 PM
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I heard Thursday's press conference has been cancelled.
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post #38 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 07:10 PM
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They're having a special meeting with each rider and 1 team manager, it's a closed door session and not televised. I guess they want to settle everyone down.
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post #39 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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They're having a special meeting with each rider and 1 team manager, it's a closed door session and not televised. I guess they want to settle everyone down.

Yeah good luck with that.

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The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
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post #40 of 141 (permalink) Old 11-02-2015, 10:38 PM
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big E is gonna tell them all to move over and let Rossi win...

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