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post #61 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:07 PM
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also akrapovic,the old arata and other japanese titanium headers(not polished) did have a coating applied,but again I have forgotten the details and will find out on Monday

One thing I know is that WD40 CRC etc is not good as acleaner,as it's petroleum and will stain(if you have a new titanium exhaust and use some wd40 on it see how dull it looks after the oil has burned onto it...


the japanese makers recommend quick drying brake cleaner.paper towels and elbow grease
canisters and other polished titanium parts are of course easy to keep looking good,but the headers etc with the coating need a bit more care

again i will find out Monday from people who actually know what's what with this(reason for the coatings,general care etc)
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post #62 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:14 PM
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Exhaust art at it's finest. Truly skilled craftsmen. Simon, thanks for sharing.
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post #63 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:19 PM
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recently electrostatic coating is popular,but it's probably a little expensive
again I have visited the main factory in japan that does this(In saitama)
IT was very surreal,for example hundreds of G-shock watches stacked on the roof of this grotty old factory on newspaper in the sun after they had the chemical treatment to
not what you really expect for a casio product!not on any table etc,just on the flat roof of this 60 year old factory

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post #64 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:22 PM
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better get clarification from newera how those are tinted before you go and start posting pictures from the actual production line! cause i don't think those torches put off heat, they look like "special coating" applicators to me



on a side note, sometimes they use carbon nitride to color stuff and aluminum nitride for protective coatings (depends on the purpose), but neither look anything like heat coloring. the nitrides look more like an anodized material.

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post #65 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:26 PM
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Exhaust art at it's finest. Truly skilled craftsmen. Simon, thanks for sharing.
My pleasure!real shame the industry is not what it due to a multitude of hurdles.

I can't imagine what ladybirds supplier could be making if things were different-probably some amazing exhaust systems...
check out this one off he made for a friend of ladybirds president(Triumph daytona 955)
also I think the OZ racing wheel was a one off as well....

was crafted using a dyno to get the best power etc(unlike most japanese exhaust makers...who don't)

this is what genius is imo





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post #66 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 03:54 PM
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better get clarification from newera how those are tinted before you go and start posting pictures from the actual production line! cause i don't think those torches put off heat, they look like "special coating" applicators to me



on a side note, sometimes they use carbon nitride to color stuff and aluminum nitride for protective coatings (depends on the purpose), but neither look anything like heat coloring. the nitrides look more like an anodized material.
thanks for the info!
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post #67 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 05:11 PM
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better get clarification from newera how those are tinted before you go and start posting pictures from the actual production line! cause i don't think those torches put off heat, they look like "special coating" applicators to me



on a side note, sometimes they use carbon nitride to color stuff and aluminum nitride for protective coatings (depends on the purpose), but neither look anything like heat coloring. the nitrides look more like an anodized material.

the guy holding the torch was classic, must be staged





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post #68 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-26-2011, 07:19 PM
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Simon ALWAYS has the nicest stuff!
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post #69 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 03:29 AM
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Simon ALWAYS has the nicest stuff!
Agreed! That Daytona is pure sex with that exhaust and I dig the wheels, but I may be biased


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post #70 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 05:21 AM
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Thanks Simon,

Amazing pics!
Good to see that what I've been saying all along is the truth: Namely, the effects are factory created, not from mere engine heat and there are coating processes (Akra) as well as electrolysis used to get blueing on titanium exhausts. Also that cleaning with suitable solvents as opposed to abrasives.

Looking forward to seeing more pics and info & from professionals who know what they're talking about.


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post #71 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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C'mon, serious? You can even see the blueing in the very last picture...
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post #72 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 07:19 AM
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Refer to my post above where I talked about oxidation through use of a torch as opposed to much lower exhaust gas temps.
The very last pic above looks to me a lot like an exhaust that's brand new & just finished being fitted (Look at the 3rd picture up & you'll see there's no sign of exhaust gases having being expelled from the silencer insert - it's still completely clean inside).
Simon might confirm...

In fact, pics look a lot like a Triumph that's had a fair few other tasty new bits fitted at the same time.
Yum! - Can't beat the Japanese for total attention to (otaku) detail.

Interesting to see that welding after the tubing's already been turned blue (from high heat of a torch) leaves a gold banding. Very cool. Hadn't seen that before!
Another interesting fact is Titanium doesn't conduct heat as much as say stainless when Tig welding.
I've watched a Japanese AE86 tuner making a Ti exhaust section wearing nothing but cotton gloves & wondered - till he explained this.
Tempted to take a torch to my silencers next time I re-pack them and see if I can make parts blue, but I'd probably make a mess of it, so best not!
Sadly the raw material cost of Titanium's more than doubled in the last 5 years, making Titanium performance parts very expensive.


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Last edited by Newera; 11-27-2011 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Adding last paragraph.
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post #73 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 12:57 PM
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Thanks Simon,

Amazing pics!
Good to see that what I've been saying all along is the truth: Namely, the effects are factory created, not from mere engine heat and there are coating processes (Akra) as well as electrolysis used to get blueing on titanium exhausts. Also that cleaning with suitable solvents as opposed to abrasives.

Looking forward to seeing more pics and info & from professionals who know what they're talking about.
I still haven't figured out if it is due to narcissism and your refusal to acknowledge you were wrong, or if it stems from pure idiocy... either way, thanks for making the rest of us look good!

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post #74 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 01:26 PM
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I still haven't figured out if it is due to narcissism and your refusal to acknowledge you were wrong, or if it stems from pure idiocy... either way, thanks for making the rest of us look good!
Get off those meds... you're clearly dillusional.


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post #75 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 02:28 PM
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are you trying to make a jab or are you just stupid? help me out cause you're confusing.

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post #76 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 02:40 PM
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are you trying to make a jab or are you just stupid? help me out cause you're confusing.
Do yourself a favour: READ what I've written on this thread and digest it. TRY!!!

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You can't polish a turd.


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post #77 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 02:59 PM
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Do yourself a favour: READ what I wrote and digest it. TRY!!!

Bling and chicken strips belong on Harleys.
You can't polish a turd.
yeah, just like you can't fix stupid.

just to give you the specifics, Akro themselves test most exhausts at up to 900 CELSIUS (i'll put that in caps since you can't differentiate in temp scales)

the TO under a charge for commercial grade titanium starts at barely over 600 CELSIUS and that can be as low as 5 ****ing minutes at 600 CELSIUS

there are very few manufacturers that actually use that level of titanium because it is so hard to work with, so they have to use a titanium alloy to roll and bend it, as pure titanium has a terrible shear point, more than double that of most of the other metals used to construct the ti alloy. so you are trying to tell everyone here it is impossible to oxidize/tint a metal with heat when you don't even know what the **** the metal is made out of in the first place.

you should unplug your computer, throw it out the window and never come back online again you ****ing idiot.

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post #78 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 03:15 PM
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yeah, just like you can't fix stupid.

just to give you the specifics, Akro themselves test most exhausts at up to 900 CELSIUS (i'll put that in caps since you can't differentiate in temp scales)

the TO under a charge for commercial grade titanium starts at barely over 600 CELSIUS and that can be as low as 5 ****ing minutes at 600 CELSIUS

there are very few manufacturers that actually use that level of titanium because it is so hard to work with, so they have to use a titanium alloy to roll and bend it, as pure titanium has a terrible shear point, more than double that of most of the other metals used to construct the ti alloy. so you are trying to tell everyone here it is impossible to oxidize/tint a metal with heat when you don't even know what the **** the metal is made out of in the first place.

you should unplug your computer, throw it out the window and never come back online again you ****ing idiot.
so now this guy says it CAN be done with a torch but it has to be done first but the torch still has no effect. while adding powder and or other makes it color faster and brighter the FACT remains the heat is what changes the ti blue not a coating

just when i had given up on me being the biggest stubborn dill hole this guys comes along and steals my thunder





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post #79 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 03:26 PM
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Look at Simon's text & pictures. He mentions coating, heat treatment and electrolysis as methods of colouring. He also mentions not using abrasives for cleaning, but suitable solvents.
Is he wrong too? - He seems to be confirming much of what I said from the beginning and hasn't said any of the effects shown on his photos are a result of just riding the bikes.

Then look at his pictures. Ask yourself - why would manufacturers go to the trouble of colouring exhausts as they do, if indeed they'd turn those beautiful colours all by themselves through just riding the bikes anyways?
Why would they say use suitable solvent, paper towel and elbow grease rather than an abrasive?

If you read my responses, on page 2 you'll find I did say heat from a Torch would cause blueing. I never denied that as you try to make out? I then pointed out there is another method of blueing titanium. I didn't say it was the only way.

Colouring of titanium is a chemical reaction to combine the metal with oxygen through the use of strong heat or oxidation through acids and electrolysis. Either method causes a deposit of oxidised titanium on the surface.
By combination with another element, you have a coating of oxidation. I'd assume basic chemistry and physics was something you learnt at school - Remember any of it?

Fact is, the blueing in Simon's pictures is all factory produced, not from riding the bikes. Is it really that hard for you to understand?

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Last edited by Newera; 11-27-2011 at 03:39 PM.
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post #80 of 92 (permalink) Old 11-27-2011, 03:29 PM
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Look at Simon's text & pictures. He mentions coating, heat treatment and electrolysis as methods of colouring. He also mentions not using abrasives for cleaning, but suitable solvents.
Is he wrong too? - He seems to be confirming much of what I said from the beginning and hasn't said any of the effects shown on his photos are a result of just riding the bikes.

Then look at his pictures. Ask yourself - why would manufacturers go to the trouble of colouring exhausts as they do, if indeed they'd turn those beautiful colours all by themselves anyways?

If you read my responses, on page 2 you'll find I did say heat from a Torch would cause blueing. I never denied that as you try to make out? I then pointed out there is another method of blueing titanium. I didn't say it was the only way.

Fact is, the blueing in Simon's pictures is all factory produced, not from riding the bikes. Is it really that hard for you to understand?

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The blue and yellow colours of titanium are a coating treatment , they're not as a result of exhaust heat as most people think.
This means if you scratch or polish the coating off, it's permanent.
i guess i'll stop responding though, cause you're all over the place, just looking for a splinter to prove you own the tree. useless.

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