Another RC51 hesitation problem - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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Another RC51 hesitation problem

I just bought my first RC51. It's a 2002, with PCIIIr, Sato high-mounts, and in serious need of a speedo healer. It sounds great, and runs great...usually. I bought the bike in Stockton, CA and rode STRAIGHT THROUGH to Salt Lake City, UT this past weekend (10 hours seat time). It gets cold in the desert at around 3 in the morning...
The problem is that the bike gets an occasional hesitation while at speed. On the ride home, it seemed to do fine on smooth roads, then when I hit bumpy parts, it would stutter and miss bad. So, after reading some posts last night, I disconnected the PCIIIr completely. I took it for a ride this afternoon, and it was fine, for about the first 15 minutes. Then it started stumbling again, intermittently, and this time, it was even on smooth roads.
I should add that when this stuttering and hesitation happens, the little red FI light on the instrument cluster comes on or flashes.
This is very frustrating. I don't want to have to take it to the dealer, because from what I've read, they usually won't have any ideas.
Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Frank

Last edited by osmosisfrank; 05-02-2007 at 02:03 AM.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 02:39 AM
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-02-2007, 11:16 PM
 
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+1 check the ground on the frame as well.....


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Originally Posted by TXRC51fatboy View Post
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-03-2007, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I'm gonna check all connections again. Right now, the PCIIIr is grounded to the negative battery post. I did check the terminal connections, and both were tight. I DIDN'T check the other end of the cables, or the cables themselves for condition. I'll be out of town for work until Friday night, at which point it will be a long night working on the 51. I'm dying to ride it without any problems! Thanks for your replies, and I'll keep you informed of what I find.

Regards,
Frank
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2007, 11:22 PM
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I'd check some connections. I had the same problem at the track last week, and it turned out that the positive cable connection at the battery had broken off, and occasionally it would just cut out.

'04 RC51 Trackbike
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-05-2007, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so I pulled the fairings and propped the tank, checked the connections at the battery, block, and starter, and also on the solenoid. Everything is tight and looks to be in good repair. I started it and let it idle to temp, revved it a few times, even put it in first gear and let it run a bit. No problems. I threw a volt meter on the two battery terminals while it was running. 14.88 volts. Would the charge still be this good if I had a dead cell in the battery?
The guy I bought the bike from said that when he had the service done recently, they replaced the fuel filter, so I was kinda ruling that out...plus, I'm not too sure where it is on this bike. My old R1 was easy to spot it.
When I have the problem, it almost feels like you're starting to run out of gas, or getting a touch of vapor-lock. Does that sound familiar to anyone?
I hope I can get this sorted out, because I sure would like to ride it without people looking at me like I'm an idiot for running out of gas when I'm not!!!
Thanks again for any suggestions,
Frank
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2007, 12:20 AM
 
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Was the fuel line pinched when you lifted the tank? Or , for that matter, any of the vent lines...?
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2007, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosisfrank View Post
Okay, so I pulled the fairings and propped the tank, checked the connections at the battery, block, and starter, and also on the solenoid. Everything is tight and looks to be in good repair. I started it and let it idle to temp, revved it a few times, even put it in first gear and let it run a bit. No problems. I threw a volt meter on the two battery terminals while it was running. 14.88 volts. Would the charge still be this good if I had a dead cell in the battery?
The guy I bought the bike from said that when he had the service done recently, they replaced the fuel filter, so I was kinda ruling that out...plus, I'm not too sure where it is on this bike. My old R1 was easy to spot it.
When I have the problem, it almost feels like you're starting to run out of gas, or getting a touch of vapor-lock. Does that sound familiar to anyone?
I hope I can get this sorted out, because I sure would like to ride it without people looking at me like I'm an idiot for running out of gas when I'm not!!!
Thanks again for any suggestions,
Frank

Congrads on your new RC51, Sorry 2 hear U R having problems.
Okay, I would like to tell U 2 remove the connections at the battery, starter, and neg. 2 the engine case, clean and reinstall, do NOT think just because U have made sure it was tight, then that's it

Here's the other biggie, it has happened just resently to atleast 2 members here I believe!
U have to be very careful with how U put on/down the "Fuel Cell" the Fuel line has a habit of getting pinched, which will give it the EXACT same feeling of running out of fuel!

I Hope This Helps......?

Here IS a HUGE Tip 4 U, there is 1 thing that can help U and is worth it's weight in gold, MY :twocents Get yourself a "Service Manual"

Let us know what U find 2 B the problem, Okay?


Maverick

PS. OH yeah, your fuel filter is inside the fuel cell.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-06-2007, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Disconnected and reconnected all the power terminals, removed airbox and chased the fuel lines (everything looks good), and reconnected the PCIIIr. I did notice that when the connector on the top of the airbox is disconnected and you start the bike, the FI light comes on, but it stays on. Not seeing the problem I had on the highway.
I'm hooking up a laptop to the PCIIIr and checking the map in it. I'll save it to my computer (if you can do that) and install a new map from the RC51.org website for Sato Banzai's. I'll take it out tomorrow and reply back on what I find. It had better #%*&@ work this time!!!

Frank
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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So, I got the RC51 out today. Same problem happened. After about 10 minutes or so of riding, it starts stammering intermittently. It only does it when I am either in a lean, or hitting some bumps, or a combination of both. And, if I am slowing down with closed throttle and hit a bump, it will happen, usually accompanied with some popping.
The fuel hose isn"t kinked, it looks good and is situated good.
The bike has been down, on the left side, but nothing bad. Does anyone think it might be the tipover sensor?
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:17 AM
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Yesss! That same thing happened to me, make sure it is mounted securely, maybe the joker who sold you the bike put on the aftermarket undertail and f#cked up the direction the tipover sensor is mounted, or fastened it loosely. Also, check any of the wires in the back of the bike for rubbing on the frame, each other, ect.... Good luck man...
LT
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Sweet! I'll check it out. I have seen the undertail that he put on the bike on eBay. It uses the stock lights, but tips them downward, and it's made of stainless steel sheet metal. I'm not too attached to it, so I'll be looking for a Hotbodies or something like that.
NOW...since I haven't had a chance yet to follow Maverick's (Jeff's) advice and pick up a service manual, I have to ask: WHERE is the sensor, and what does it look like? Any pics or drawings of how it should be oriented?
I did see a relay or something like that kind of laying loose next to the tail lights. Is that it?

THANKS!!!
Frank
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Okay, so here's the latest development. I learned that you can jumper the little green two-wire plug under the seat next to the battery, and you get the "error codes". Mine are 8, 9, and 19. not sure if zero is included or not, but zero would be the lean angle sensor.
CODES:

0 - bank angle sensor, ECM, PGM-FI fuse
1 - MAP sensor
2 - MAP sensor vacuum hoses, or sensor itself
7 - ECT sensor poorly connected or open circuit
8 - TP sensor, TP sensor wiring
9 - IAT sensor connection, or open wire
10 - Baro sensor, or connection, or wiring
11 - Vehicle speed sensor, or connection or wiring
12 - #1 injector connection, or faulty injector
13 - #2 injectior connection or faulty injector
14 - #1 connection or open/shorted circuit
15 - #2 connection or open/shorted circuit
18 - Cam pulse sensor, connection or loose sensor
19 - Ignition pulse sensor, connection or loose sensor
20 - faulty E-PROM in ECM.

So, that being said, can anyone tell me what an IAT sensor is? And where is the ignition pulse sensor? Isn't that the connection that my PCIIIr is hooked into? I would assume that it wouldn't run at all if it was bad.

Thanks again for any feedback,
Frank
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 05:43 AM
 
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Had the same issue with my bike last year. Fine on flat roads, but would cut out with the bumpy ones and the FI light would come on. Come to find out i had a wire that was rubbing on the sub frame that connected to the fuel pump relay that is mounted in the rear of the bike. Fixed the wire and it went away.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosisfrank View Post
Okay, so here's the latest development. I learned that you can jumper the little green two-wire plug under the seat next to the battery, and you get the "error codes". Mine are 8, 9, and 19. not sure if zero is included or not, but zero would be the lean angle sensor.
CODES:

0 - bank angle sensor, ECM, PGM-FI fuse
1 - MAP sensor
2 - MAP sensor vacuum hoses, or sensor itself
7 - ECT sensor poorly connected or open circuit
8 - TP sensor, TP sensor wiring
9 - IAT sensor connection, or open wire
10 - Baro sensor, or connection, or wiring
11 - Vehicle speed sensor, or connection or wiring
12 - #1 injector connection, or faulty injector
13 - #2 injectior connection or faulty injector
14 - #1 connection or open/shorted circuit
15 - #2 connection or open/shorted circuit
18 - Cam pulse sensor, connection or loose sensor
19 - Ignition pulse sensor, connection or loose sensor
20 - faulty E-PROM in ECM.

So, that being said, can anyone tell me what an IAT sensor is? And where is the ignition pulse sensor? Isn't that the connection that my PCIIIr is hooked into? I would assume that it wouldn't run at all if it was bad.

Thanks again for any feedback,
Frank

Hey Frank,

The IAT sensor is the one behind the upper fairing, that mounts right abouve the "Ram Air Inlet" .... I think??
If I would have seen this post yesterday, I would have looked it up in my Service Manual, I'll check it out when I get home, BUT I know someone here will chime in and say if I am right or wrong about the location

I think accouple of these guys are on to it with a wire fraided and grounding out somewhere!???

The I/P/S again "I Think" is in behind the "Clutch Cover" or the "Atl.-Cover" and again, I'll check it out when I get home 4 U, but I'm willing to bet someone will tell you where this stuff is for sure Before 10-12hrs. goes by before I get home!

You are hooking the sensor back up that's on top of your AirBox too right??

Your code pulling this up is also showing; ECM, PGM-FI fuse too......hummmm.
0 - bank angle sensor, ECM, PGM-FI fuse

I still think it's grounding out somewhere,
OH YEAH! It still could be something going BAD inside of the Battery too!

Hang tuff Frank You'll get it.....



Maverick
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 01:39 PM
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The tip sensor is actually (stock) located right behind the rear shock resevoir. It is a rounded at the bottom, flat on top little black box that mounts on the downward flap in front of the rear tire. Make sure it is tightly mounted. ALSO, if you have a sheet metal undertail like you said, make sure none of the undertail wires runs between it and the frame. Could be trouble....
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-07-2007, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone, I'll keep at it tonight. I plan on hitting all wiring harnesses and checking for rubs/frays, and I will play with the lean angle sensor, maybe see if I can disconnect it or jumper it, and see what happens. It's strange that the problems only occur when the bike warms up, after 10 or 15 minutes...that's what had me thinking it was the MAP sensor...$700.00!!!!!!! I HOPE that's not the problem!!!!!
I'll keep you all updated...
Frank
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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ALAS, THE SMOKING GUN...
I'm pleased (and somewhat embarrassed) to announce that I've found it. Whoever first said it's electrical...well, here's to ya. There's a red wire that comes off of the positive battery cable and to a fuse which hangs on the back of the battery cover. This red wire, with a red mesh seath, runs right next to the subframe, and in my case, slightly through it. While checking the wire harness for points where it might rub against the frame, I found the sheath worn through. And there was a little green spot on a flattened out section. So, a continuity test later, I was taping and zip tying the spot over. Couldn't get shrink tubing over the terminal/fuse end.
Took it for a ride, same road as the last two times, and no problems.
So, THANKS to everyone for the help!!!

Regards,
Frank
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmosisfrank View Post
ALAS, THE SMOKING GUN...
I'm pleased (and somewhat embarrassed) to announce that I've found it. Whoever first said it's electrical...well, here's to ya. There's a red wire that comes off of the positive battery cable and to a fuse which hangs on the back of the battery cover. This red wire, with a red mesh seath, runs right next to the subframe, and in my case, slightly through it. While checking the wire harness for points where it might rub against the frame, I found the sheath worn through. And there was a little green spot on a flattened out section. So, a continuity test later, I was taping and zip tying the spot over. Couldn't get shrink tubing over the terminal/fuse end.
Took it for a ride, same road as the last two times, and no problems.
So, THANKS to everyone for the help!!!

Regards,
Frank

Hey Frank, this is for you....

And the first to say it was electrical,..Hmmmm.....That would be, all of us!... Hahahaha

Enjoy and be safe mang.,


Maverick overNout
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 05-12-2007, 06:46 AM
 
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New to the site. Just wanted to stop in and say a huge thank you for this thread.

Was having problems with a customers RC51 doing the same thing. Pulled the tail section off and started looking and sure enough found wires that were worn through.

Bike is back together and the customer is happy.

Really appreichate this forum and the people on it, and REALLY appreichate it when people post up what they found to be the FIX. All too often people start threads with a problem, but never post the fix once it's found. Thats the most important part for those reading it...lol

Again, thanks.
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