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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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UK Government Seeks To Kill Off Bikes

A UK Government select commitee today called for compulsory speed restrictors to be fitted to motorcycles. The UK (top) speed limit is 70 MPH

The Government is proposing "black boxes" be fitted to all vehicles so that they may be tracked by satelite at all times and charged for using the roads. Drivers movement will me monitored at all times as well as their speed. Despite the largest ever online petition opposing the move the government said they will do it anyway. Legislation is also in place to prevent under 25's from riding bikes over 50BHP/500cc.

The increasingly authoritarian New Labour (under T.B.Liar) intends to impose compulsory ID cards on UK citizens (and now US visitors to the UK) and is building a national DNA database for its citizens. 20% of the worlds CCTV cameras are in the UK despite having only 1% of the worlds population. The average Londoner is photograpehed 300 times a day....

Time to leave Dodge?
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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 09:58 AM
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Love the tiered-license idea, hate the speed regulation idea.

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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Love the tiered-license idea, hate the speed regulation idea.
I can't understand your viewpoint here. I've been riding since I was 12 years old. My first road bike was a moped when I was 16. At age 17 an RD250 and by age 19 a Z900. I had six life affirming years of riding 900cc plus bikes by age 25. WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO DENY THIS TO ME & OTHERS???????
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 10:58 AM
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freedom is coming to an end... and there's nothing you can do about it.




come to canada, we don't give a shit what you do!


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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 11:05 AM
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Come to canada. We don't give a shit what you do!
The new Canadian license plate slogan...........

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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 11:16 AM
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The funiest thing I heard for a while was the UK Politians (sorry, Scumbags) are trying to get every track/dirt bike that isn't registered.... registered...

That's crazy... it's only the bikes though, race cars are fine....

They want to stop kids riding round on mini motos and generally being a PITA....

AHAHAHAHAHHAHA the UK stinks sometimes......well all the time really.

I guess it's another way of getting out of the riders of track/race bikes...

So, you will be seeing either the UK race circuits off the WSB/MotoGP calendar unless they are MOT'd and road legal....!!!!

Idiots.... absoulte idiots.....

I thought Bush was bad but **** me.... Blair is a and all who follow him....

In fact..Politians are all corrupt

Bloody hell... that's me in a bad mood all day........!

Rant over..

Cheers

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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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freedom is coming to an end... and there's nothing you can do about it.




come to canada, we don't give a shit what you do!
...funny you should say that! I intend not to still be living here in two years time. We will emigrate to

1/Italy
2/New Zealand
3/Vancouver

depending on how we like them when we go see!

Reasons? ever more restrictions on freedom, the imposition of the "surveillance state" here in the UK. Even if my kids could afford an eductaion in ten years time they won't be able to afford a home. My lad is 10 years old, I don't want him drafted into the army by a future government to fight the perpetual wars that New Labour have now started. I don't want my kids to be fingerprinted and screened at age 11 by the government for "future criminal tendencies" as they put it. I don't want a political party to take my bikes off me like they took peoples guns off them a few years ago. THis is a nasty, nasty little country now
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 11:19 AM
 
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Hey Mark... tiered licensing just means you would have to pass the test to gain the higher license. With your experiance... that would not be a problem. The UK thing is not the typical teired system. Besides... generally current licensed rider would be grandfathered into the system.



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Originally Posted by markone View Post
I can't understand your viewpoint here. I've been riding since I was 12 years old. My first road bike was a moped when I was 16. At age 17 an RD250 and by age 19 a Z900. I had six life affirming years of riding 900cc plus bikes by age 25. WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO DENY THIS TO ME & OTHERS???????
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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markone View Post
I can't understand your viewpoint here. I've been riding since I was 12 years old. My first road bike was a moped when I was 16. At age 17 an RD250 and by age 19 a Z900. I had six life affirming years of riding 900cc plus bikes by age 25. WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO DENY THIS TO ME & OTHERS???????
Dude......phuckin relax....

You're the exemption of the motorcycling crowd, and Jami isn't denying ANYONE of ANYTHING. He simply said he agreed with tiered licensing. Good for you for learning to ride a 900cc bike, but if you look at your own post....YOU WORKED YOUR WAY UP TO IT.

Same principle as tiered licensing.....

In a sense, I agree too, but it's not the only solution or the perfect answer. It's only one solution.

If young males, ages 18-25 weren't all full of piss and vinegar that go out and wreck new motorcycles, and older males ages 35-45 weren't idiots that go out and buy a bike and all the gear on the weekends and become an "instant biker" with no riding experience at all, then maybe legeslation wouldn't have anything to complain about when these 2 groups go out and kill themselves or others.

Take a good look at this forum in a few weeks..... Like any other motorcycle forum, you'll see the squids coming here, asking why the RC51 won't wheelie, and the numerous posts titled: "I crashed my RC51 today....."

It just gives legeslators a reason to target motorcycles, no matter what country you're in....... Ironically, the government could care less about things that don't make it to their "Big brother" radar.

Government agancies keep records of every injury that comes through the hospital's doors, and hospitals are legally mandated to report them. How it happened, and all related information. Police have to write reports and send them to their state DOT. Other agencies as well.....INCLUDING YOUR INSURANCE COMPANIES, all sending big brother information every time a biker screws up, or EVEN when it wasn't the biker's fault. GOvernment doesn't care. It was a negative motorcycling incident....

Get enough of the same type incident, and the government steps in BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE NEED to make laws to protect you.

Stay off the radar, and the government leaves you alone..... it's that simple.

Remember that next time you see some idiot doing a burnout or a wheelie on a public street.... or flying past traffic at 100+ miles an hour, or stunting down the highway.....

One of my favorites.....Tail of the Dragon. It's a public road, and the target of every local-yokal LEO to bust guys on motorcycles. Great road to ride, but due to a few idiots, it's attracting negative attention at times, to the motorcycling community. Another good thing getting ruined.......

_____________________________________________

Oh.....It's on, Biotch.............

Last edited by Rigor; 03-29-2007 at 11:37 AM.
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Rigor View Post
Dude......phuckin relax....

You're the exemption of the motorcycling crowd, and Jami isn't denying ANYONE of ANYTHING. He simply said he agreed with tiered licensing. Good for you for learning to ride a 900cc bike, but if you look at your own post....YOU WORKED YOUR WAY UP TO IT.

Same principle as tiered licensing.....

In a sense, I agree too, but it's not the only solution or the perfect answer. It's only one solution.

If young males, ages 18-25 weren't all full of piss and vinegar that go out and wreck new motorcycles, and older males ages 35-45 weren't idiots that go out and buy a bike and all the gear on the weekends and become an "instant biker" with no riding experience at all, then maybe legeslation wouldn't have anything to complain about when these 2 groups go out and kill themselves or others.

Take a good look at this forum in a few weeks..... Like any other motorcycle forum, you'll see the squids coming here, asking why the RC51 won't wheelie, and the numerous posts titled: "I crashed my RC51 today....."

It just gives legeslators a reason to target motorcycles, no matter what country you're in....... Ironically, the government could care less about things that don't make it to their "Big brother" radar.

Government agancies keep records of every injury that comes through the hospital's doors, and hospitals are legally mandated to report them. How it happened, and all related information. Police have to write reports and send them to their state DOT. Other agencies as well.....INCLUDING YOUR INSURANCE COMPANIES, all sending big brother information every time a biker screws up, or EVEN when it wasn't the biker's fault. GOvernment doesn't care. It was a negative motorcycling incident....

Get enough of the same type incident, and the government steps in BECAUSE THEY FEEL THE NEED to make laws to protect you.

Stay off the radar, and the government leaves you alone..... it's that simple.

Remember that next time you see some idiot doing a burnout or a wheelie on a public street.... or flying past traffic at 100+ miles an hour, or stunting down the highway.....

One of my favorites.....Tail of the Dragon. It's a public road, and the target of every local-yokal LEO to bust guys on motorcycles. Great road to ride, but due to a few idiots, it's attracting negative attention at times, to the motorcycling community. Another good thing getting ruined.......

None of that relates to me as the legislation is not retrospective. I’m speaking up for those coming of age. If I was not allowed to ride anything but government mandated bikes before I was a grown man of 25 years old I simply would not have got into bikes or bought the five bikes I did. This goes for hundreds of thousands like me. The consequence for the bike industry is that the EU(SSR) has severely diminished the bike market with this legislation. This has implications for the US market too as the industry can’t survive on only the US market or maybe you will all end up with cruisers only.

As for speed, nearly all bike accidents occur at 30 MPH or less according to government data. Do you want compulsory leg protectors fitted to bikes? Or airbags too? All of these are being considered by legislators. Darwinian natural selection will weed out the bad riders.

Even the most modest car can crack 100 MPH and no legislation is being applied to cars in this way. This is yet another attack on a minority pastime that is an easy target for legislation by people whose only interest in life is to pass more and more laws on us. Perhaps horse riding with a worse accident record than bikes would be targeted if horses were as easily registered and regulated as bikes are it too would be banned. Or mountain climbing for those who are overweight or too old to walk far (as designated by a government bureaucrat) or simply too stupid (according to government documented IQ’s) not to go fell walking when bad weather is forecast? Individual responsibility is just that; it should NOT be derrogated to the state.

This is only about an attack on individual freedoms, nothing else. I’m old enough to remember helmet laws (I wore one anyway) being imposed which we were told was just for our own good.. Look where it’s ended up…

Your arguments are specious.


PS The SP2 has is attractive to me 'cos of its' purity of design. Contrast it with the GSXR 1000 K7, its' design has been compromised by (in this case emmisions) legislation!

Last edited by markone; 03-29-2007 at 12:37 PM.
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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by markone View Post
As for speed, nearly all bike accidents occur at 30 MPH or less according to government data.

Even the most modest car can crack 100 MPH and no legislation is being applied to cars in this way.
Out of curiosity....Please show me where nearly all accidents happen at 30 mph or less. As a state licensed accident investigator, I can tell you that a very small percentage of the motorcycle accidents I've personally investigated (fatals) were nowhere near those low speeds.... Please show me this government data...

And some new cars in the US have already been equipt with speed limiters and electronic rev-limiters. Not even close to the degree that the UK is talking about, but it's already fitted in the computer systems, and a computer and a few keystrokes will change the current 100-120 limits to 70mph, if mandated......

I agree, in that government intervention would harm the sport. It won't kill it, but it'll definitely harm it. Don't be surprized if you see those airbags for bikes, or "Air Vests" in the future as well......... They're already designed.

_____________________________________________

Oh.....It's on, Biotch.............

Last edited by Rigor; 03-29-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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Out of curiosity....Please show me where nearly all accidents happen at 30 mph or less. As a state licensed accident investigator, I can tell you that a very small percentage of the motorcycle accidents I've personally investigated (fatals) were nowhere near those low speeds.... Please show me this government data... and not some blurb off a lawyer's website looking for clients.
There is as much data on this as you could wish for but here is one such source:-

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advi...ments_2006.pdf

another:-

http://www.devon.gov.uk/2004_motorcy..._study_pdf.pdf

you will note that the common theme amongst investigators is that "speed" and "speed related" are two different things. Going to fast for the circumstances is the real killer, not speed per se!
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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 12:48 PM
 
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We all know whats really going on in this once great land and the reasons why Markone, the trouble is everyone is too shit scared to say anything in case we offend anyone!!! It's already too late!
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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 12:53 PM
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I missed the whole part where you're from the UK, mark......

Your articles have vast information, but still none that clearly supports the "Nearly all accidents happen below 30 mph" theory, but it brings something else to light. It does relate accidents directly to speed limit, machine size, rider experience and road construction, indicating an average, lower accident speed.

My point being: In the UK, and/or all of Europe, where more Mopeds and smaller CC'd machines are used on a daily basis, the accident "average speed" will be lower, just due to the use of the vehicle, the capability of the vehicle and the common-place of the vehicle in society. Lower road speeds and road conditions and construction is another issue....

In the US, we have less smaller cc'd bikes, under the 400cc ranges on the roadways then the UK. With roadways that average 45-65 miles an hour, a 400+cc bike is the norm, just to keep up with traffic.

The difference in YOUR traffic accident stats and mine (NTSB-Federal organization: National Traffic Safety Board) could be the general road speeds and the size of the motorcycles.

I realized that something might be of difference, after reading the articles you posted..... Your points are valid, and your accident information may be as well. That seems to be the major difference, here, and not that you're "wrong" in any way......... We're comparing the stats of 2 different countries/societies.

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

_____________________________________________

Oh.....It's on, Biotch.............

Last edited by Rigor; 03-29-2007 at 01:08 PM.
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 01:01 PM
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the UK has one of the largest sportbike markets in the world

The USA should have a tiered system, things are out of control. i can't believe 16 year old kids can walk into a dealership and buy a 1000cc bike with 160hp and nobody cares? or rather, nobody does anything.

you dare mention some squid/zoom splat is over their head or now wearing enough gear or endangering poeple with their stunts you are critisized most forums even have stunt areas where most of the stuff posted is how to and we are breaking the laws, come on.

here we biatch about whether $700 arai helmets are safer than $100 HJC or scorion helmets while half of the owners don't even wear the rest of the proper protective gear

face it, the world is run by sin and the largest one is greed





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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 01:48 PM
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Read # 15 - markone is right about the 30 mph stuff even in the US - and don't go to Canada - they care more than the US - don't forget the years of the speed camera's and photo radar in several parts of the country!

Rob

Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures
More: Motorcycle Safety Page | Technical Articles Page
The "Hurt" Study
Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures, Volume 1: Technical Report, Hurt, H.H., Ouellet, J.V. and Thom, D.R., Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90007, Contract No. DOT HS-5-01160, January 1981 (Final Report)

The Hurt study, published in 1981, was a ground-breaking report on the causes and effects of motorcycle accidents. Although more than 15 years old at this time, the study still offers riders insight into the statistics regarding motorcycle accidents and tips on safer riding. With funds from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, researcher Harry Hurt (from which the study gets its common name) of the University of Southern California, investigated almost every aspect of 900 motorcycle accidents in the Los Angeles area. Additionally, Hurt and his staff analyzed 3,600 motorcycle traffic accident reports in the same geographic area.
This is the same study that is frequently quoted in the MSF rider safety courses.
A complete non-summarized version of this document is available from the National Technical Information Service (NTIS) by ordering document number PB81-206443/LL. The cost is $84.00 each per document plus $5.00 handling per order. For more information, call the NTIS Sales Desk at 1-800-553-NTIS or 1-703-605-6000.

Summary of Findings Throughout the accident and exposure data there are special observations which relate to accident and injury causation and characteristics of the motorcycle accidents studied. These findings are summarized as follows:
  1. Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.
  2. Approximately one-fourth of these motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents involving the motorcycle colliding with the roadway or some fixed object in the environment.
  3. Vehicle failure accounted for less than 3% of these motorcycle accidents, and most of those were single vehicle accidents where control was lost due to a puncture flat.
  4. In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slideout and fall due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.
  5. Roadway defects (pavement ridges, potholes, etc.) were the accident cause in 2% of the accidents; animal involvement was 1% of the accidents.
  6. In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.
  7. The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision.
  8. Deliberate hostile action by a motorist against a motorcycle rider is a rare accident cause. The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.
  9. Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.
  10. Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents.
  11. Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen in a very short time close to the trip origin.
  12. The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.
  13. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets.
  14. Fuel system leaks and spills were present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire.
  15. The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.
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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
 
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We all know whats really going on in this once great land and the reasons why Markone, the trouble is everyone is too shit scared to say anything in case we offend anyone!!! It's already too late!

Can't but agree with you there. Off topic I know but the fifteen British Navy sailors captured by the "Iranian Navy" this week is a case in point. It seems they surrendered to the Iranians because they were under general orders not to resist if confronted in case it upset the Iranians in some way. In the news clip I saw last night at least one of the Royal Marines still had his rifle whilst under capture in the Iranian speed boat.

If a major Royal Navy ship can’t detect and deter five Iranian gunboats closing on their search team’s position eight miles away in the open sea (In Iraqi waters) or more likely WON’T deter them for fear of upsetting our Iranian brethren (orders from above? i.e. T.B. Liar) we have no business having a navy out there.

Meanwhile we suckers back home have untold laws imposed on us “for our own good”.

I know you're from Southampton so no offence
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 02:59 PM
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Read # 15 - markone is right about the 30 mph stuff even in the US -

15.) The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.
Roadkill, my brother.......

The Harry Hurt-Report is an independant study, done through the University of Southern California, not a government study, (although Federally funded) compiled through local accidents, and not even state wide.

It's compiled through the investigations of ONLY 900 accidents in the LA area, and 3600 others in the basic geographic area. It does NOT reflect the national average, or even a state average, to make the claim that nearly all accidents occur within less then 30 mphs.... It's a regional study at best.

And if you read your own post, you'd see It was also compiled and produced in 1981...............

Quite a difference in motorcycle and helmet/gear technology in the last 26 years, wouldn't you say? I don't even think there was street riding gear back in 1981....other then open faced helmets and the early introduction of the full faced helmet......


http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html

_____________________________________________

Oh.....It's on, Biotch.............

Last edited by Rigor; 03-29-2007 at 03:14 PM.
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 03:19 PM
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Instead of worrying about motorcycle maybe the Brit politicians should worry more about making dental care or orthodontics mandatory
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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-29-2007, 03:54 PM
 
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20 RC51 00 - I vote you leader of the House (Lords)!!
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