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post #61 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp2pilot
Hard work was something that I did with the best attitude and actually enjoyed getting it done. I am sure I could classify the physical aspects of my profesion as some of the most dangerous and taxing in the civilion world. In just plain numbers we lift and carry materials that can and does kill us when it goes wrong.(more often then you would ever accept in most vocations) A a glazier I was trained to work in extreme exposure to both height and compression. I did High steel in San Francisco and set monolithic plate that weighed in the thousands of pounds. During this part of my life I was a card carrying journeyman making damn good money and was constantly pursued by competitors of the company I worked for. This is a rare thing in todays era of employees and employers being at odds with one another.

My point is I am quite aware of the fiscal enrichment the union has brought to the high skilled blue collar workers in this country.

I also flew up the ranks as the majority of my work mates were more interested in not being outshined by their peers by beating down any co-worker that outperformed them. They would drop their tools mid task at the second the lunch brake arrived. Never do a second of work that was not being payed for. And I do mean Second. like it would cause cancer to work 5 minutes over to complete something they had been working on for 3 hours, only to shut down put away their tools and trot out to their cars only to return and set up the next day to get the 5 minutes of work done and then move on the next phase of the site.

It takes 5 years of very high intensity instruction both class room and on the job training for a glazier to get his Journeyman card, then another 5 to 10 years to achieve a lead man position on a commercial stacking crew then another 5 years to be in contention for a foremans position. Average large level Commercial glass companies will have a 20 plus year highly expieranced technician with strong managment/orginizational skills in the foremans role.

I reached the foremans position in 12 years. Believe me there was nothing but animosity and outright backstabbing among the men that I leapfrogged passed as I have always worked for the company, not for the paycheck. If I put the job ahead of my life I was labeled a workaholic. If I stressed quality and pride in the jobs we did I was considered a kiss ass or a brown noser by the rest of the crews. The thing is I was working for the Job, not the company. I was performing to my highest level because that is how I was brought up.

As an owner of my own glass shop I pray nightly for an employee to come to work for me that would work like I did. I would pay him double the union rate and be glad to have him.
that sounds like an offer rob?got med benifits to boot? whats the job req?what type of work? im game for living in a climate that i can ride in year round!
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post #62 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:22 PM
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Here is a really simple way to look at this. Again, this is about giving a shit about your fellow citizens- rising tide lifts ALL boats.

First they came for the air traffic controllers
and I did not speak out
because I was not an air traffic controller.
Then they came for the textile workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a textile worker.
Then they came for the transit workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a transit worker.
Then they came for the rest of the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not in a union.
Then they came for everyone's social security
and I did not speak out
because I could invest my own money.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.


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post #63 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye-p
Here is a really simple way to look at this. Again, this is about giving a shit about your fellow citizens- rising tide lifts ALL boats.

First they came for the air traffic controllers
and I did not speak out
because I was not an air traffic controller.
Then they came for the textile workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a textile worker.
Then they came for the transit workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a transit worker.
Then they came for the rest of the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not in a union.
Then they came for everyone's social security
and I did not speak out
because I could invest my own money.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
its sad to say but thats the way people are today! so true,so true!!!!!
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post #64 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eye-p
Here is a really simple way to look at this. Again, this is about giving a shit about your fellow citizens- rising tide lifts ALL boats.

First they came for the air traffic controllers
and I did not speak out
because I was not an air traffic controller.
Then they came for the textile workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a textile worker.
Then they came for the transit workers
and I did not speak out
because I was not a transit worker.
Then they came for the rest of the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not in a union.
Then they came for everyone's social security
and I did not speak out
because I could invest my own money.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
ok I read it and I have no Idea what the hell point was trying to be made???


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post #65 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:39 PM
 
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Robert you crack me up. I was thinking the same thing. We live in a dog-eat-dog enviroment. Those who adapt will overcome those who don't are fish bait.
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post #66 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanZcap
Key word some, not every marine is married or lives off base! Very few enlisted marines are making $60,000, if they were you'd see a lot more people joining up...
Exactly HanZCap.

E-6 making $60K after taxes....my god. I'd like to see that. http://www.dod.mil/dfas/money/milpay...pay_Tables.pdf

Looks like an E-6 makes $2900 at most. Okay so figure in 1583 BAH with dependants https://secureapp2.hqda.pentagon.mil...bah/bahsrch.pl
BAS is about $350 a month. Add that all up....AFTER taxes a E-6 makes just under $4000 a month. Yes the military pays taxes. I did...I put in for my GIBill. You have to remember one thing about military pay...it's for 24/7/365. No military member works 40hours a week. So if you really want to break that down, the military doesn't get paid well. BUT that's NOT why I joined. I joined to serve my country and protect everyone.

By the way, did you get the jacket finally Michael?

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post #67 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 08:31 PM
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This is gonna piss a few individuals off, but here goes......
There are two types of people and the posts truly reflect this.

A) People who realize by and large that THEY must take control of thier own destiny (to the degree that any of us REALLY can) and work constantly to make their own breaks, develop a skill set that is going to enable them to dictate the terms of their work environment and financial independence. And in doing so often end up helping others do the same, VERY fulfilling.

AND

B) Those who for whatever reason are willing to believe that "the system" is responsible for their job security, health care, housing etc. And they think that if they (hopefully) work hard that everything is going to be just fine, 'cause it did for Dad and Grandpa.......Wake up ladies, it's a ****in jungle out there! The world/country/system doesn't owe you jack shit. Some people are fortunate and do find jobs/careers that fill their needs if they keep their nose clean and show up for work, BUT THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES!!!!! Stop pissing and moaning and thinking "if we all band together we will fight the big bad capitalists justice will prevail...." Aint gonna happen, too many people adopt the "victim" mentality and try to blame everyone else for THEIR LIFE (sue a tobacco company 'cause after 30 years of smoking you got cancer, sue the mean old bartender when after 15 beers you drive into a tree on the way home....) WHAT THE **** EVER HAPPENED TO THE CONCEPT OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!?!? It's not easy, it's a little scary but not nearly as scary (to me) as leaving my destiny up to someone else. While we're all at it, seeing as we're coming up on the end of another year, how 'bout stepping back and REALLY looking at what we have.......Is your glass half empty or half full? I know all of you know this on some level, but truly the best "things" in life arent "things" May all of you and your loved ones enjoy peace, health and happiness next year.

-Rocky-

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Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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post #68 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 08:33 PM
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STRIKE is OVER as for now it seems.
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post #69 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 08:40 PM
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Well let's put this to bed then and start talking about SATO's and Ohlins again.

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post #70 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 08:41 PM
 
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Yeah the jacket arrived last night. It wasn't until yesterday that I realized who you were. The wife decided that I needed a jacket to be able to ride on semi warm days and she didn't want to spend big money on one till my b'day. When I saw it was still for sale she said to get it. Funny how things work out. I will actually open the box up tonight. Had to much going on last night once I got home to take it out and try it on.
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post #71 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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And to think, I was just saying it was a cold ride.........

BTW, I am not a transit worker but I do support them. The Transit workers are hired by the MTA not the city. The MTA is seperate from the city. The Taylor law was set up years ago because of a garbage strike, which is a city job, and then brought over to the Transit by greedy Politicians that get kickbacks from the MTA so they can keep their total annual profits a secret. If they cut benefits for 1 union agency what will stop the other city agencies benefits from going bye bye. Its all about standing up for what you have now and not giving into the corporate greed. I am a CWA union worker and work damn hard in places most people will never see. We have a risk of lung cancer, cars raming us, explosions (just a month ago too) and all for the company to try and take benefits away from us every contract. The MTA declared a billion dollar surplus not 2 months ago, and now say they cant afford to pay for pensions. HELLO ENRON!!!!!!!
The MTA was sayed to be racking in millions of dollars a day yet you can never get a true figure. Go Figure....
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post #72 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-22-2005, 09:31 PM
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Union Helps???

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMt
Gee, did I hit a nerve? I didnt (and wouldn't) call all union workers "lazy, stupid drones" (or whatever it was you said) What I am saying is that transit drivers asking for among other things for retirement benifits to kick in at 55 is ludicrous! There was a time and place when the unions were needed, but like it or not, these days, aside from lining the union bosses pockets with your dues, they usually do their members more harm than good. Go ahead and blame it on the evil Republicans (its ALL RICH WHITE MEN'S FAULT!) all you want pal, but the handwriting is on the wall. I dont fault ANYONE who does an honest days work, whatever your job is, BUT THE PARADIGM IS CHANGING!!!! If you work at a job that can be "outsourced" to Asscrackastan or China, IT WILL BE! (sooner rather than later) It's all about that evil PROFIT MARGIN! So if you think you kids will be able to support themselves (and their families) working an assembly type job you are either clueless or in denial. Even "high tech" type jobs (ie: computer programmers) are being outsourced to countries where they will work for a fraction of what Americans demand. Hate it all you want, but it's a fact and if you dont improvise, adapt and EVOLVE you will become EXTINCT!
-Rocky-

P.S. Was that the same evil President Regan that according to common wisdom facilitated the fall of the Berlin wall, and the downfall of the Soviet Union? (Oh yeah, I forgot, he must be an evil man, after all he was REPUBLICAN....)
I am a CWA (Communication Workers of America) and when SBC took over PAC BELL they were not suppose to outsource jobs the we Americans can do. Well they, SBC, somehow managed to send thoudsands of job over to India. Which jobs you ask, well when you call for DSL service, tech. support, or customer services, you'll notice the Indian accent. Not saying chit about Texas, but SBC is a Texas based corp.

Pac Bell had to go on strike last year, not to get more, but to keep what we have. Our wages are not keeping up with the cost of living and every year we are falling back. I get 2-2.5% rise a year while the cost of living in the bay area is going up minimun of 4-8%. Do the math.
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post #73 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-23-2005, 12:24 AM
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And your point is? Not to be a dick, but you are telling me youself "the hanwriting is on the wall" So what are ya gonna do about it? You are not going to change the system, you can rant and rave all you want, but the game is the same. Adapt my friend, either get re-trained in a field you like that will offer more security and better pay, or better yet, start your OWN buisness (I can hear it now, "yeah easy for HIM to say...") Nothing great ever comes easy, you WILL struggle, you may fail, so, get up and try again. Ever notice how the home run champs usually also lead in strike outs? To hit a homer ya gotta swing for the ****in' fence baby! The more control you can take over your own career, the more successful you will be. If I had to calculate what I made FOR YEARS "by the hour" I'd cry. It means working 16-18 hour days, sweating details, developing contacts and resources. Sound like a lotta work HELL YES, is it worth it, you tell me. Do you want to lay awake at night wondering if your job will be outsourced or your union will call a strike, or do you want to lay awake at night wondering if your gonna make payroll for you employees in 2 days. The risk is great, the reward is greater, you are never a loser if you never quit. The opportunities are endless, shit start a one person carpet cleaning business on the side, ANYTHING, just dont sit around and bitch. Your co-workers will try and talk you out of it, remember misery loves company. This is the greatest ****ing nation the world has ever seen, you have opportunities 95% of the world would give an arm for, don't waste it. SWING FOR THE FENCE!

-Rocky-

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Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
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post #74 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-23-2005, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thats why I sell drugs!!!! Its all about supply and demand j/k
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post #75 of 75 (permalink) Old 12-23-2005, 06:38 PM
 
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The Truth hurts

hello,

I am a "union" worker and I have a college education. Sadly, In the times we are living in, union workers are a minority in this country. With GM, Ford, M-Benz, laying off approx. 100,000 workers in the next five years, it only erodes the power of middle-class workers of this country. The UAW union fought long and hard to gain benefits and living wages for their workers. But now, the retirement costs and health benefits payouts are killing the Big 3 automakers. Most of the blame lies with Congress. Their position that the bottom line is the most important thing only furthur damages the future for our children and our retirement options. It is sad that we have the most expensive health care system in the world and yet 40 million people have no heatlh care insurance. If Congress does not recognize the danger we are in(middle-class) then we are doomed.

To all, have a happy and safe holidays

Octavio
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