Cam Silencing Gear Removal Mod - Page 2 - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
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post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-31-2005, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Start2Fab
The fact that no average rider could tell the difference or make use of the minimal gains from this mod could be said about hundreds of mods to any bike, yet when you apply a few of them together, you realize a combined benefit that the average person can feel and use.

The old drag racers' saying went, "take off 10 pounds in 10 places and pick up a tenth in the quarter."
no one here said you have to feel a difference to make a mod worthwhile
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post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 12:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hullspeed
no one here said you have to feel a difference to make a mod worthwhile
Several people here have already said they didn't feel it was worth their time. Say that about enough mods individually and you end up down enough power and keeping enough weight to make a difference.
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post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 02:35 AM
 
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My rc has had them removed for close to 3 yrs now, it hasnt produced any ill effects to this date.....It's 15 0z of rotating mass out of the engine and off the bike, with the weight of the rc any little bit helps.......
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post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 06:50 AM
 
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I say skip breakfast and take a massive before your ride, bigger gain


Tom
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post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 07:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tg413
My rc has had them removed for close to 3 yrs now, it hasnt produced any ill effects to this date.....It's 15 0z of rotating mass out of the engine and off the bike, with the weight of the rc any little bit helps.......
you don't mind the constant noise? How is it at speed?
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post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 02:13 PM
 
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The sound it makes is in my opinion pretty sweet once you are in gear and moving. Unlike a Ducati dry clutch, the RC51 never stops making the noise through the entire rev range. I notice that no matter what rpm you are at, it never gets louder. So, in my experience with the mod on my race bike, I notice the sound a lot at idle and up to about 40mph. After that the exhaust note and wind passing by the helmet starts to take over the higher pitched cam gear noises.
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post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 04:15 PM
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Anyone actually weighed these parts? For the almost a pound number to work, the pawls would have to weigh about 3 oz each, which I have trouble believing.
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post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
 
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one other question, which I don't recall ever being addressed:

Note that I have very weak mechanical knowledge, the following will sound extremely stupid to the wise, I claim no responsibility.

Assume silencing gears are removed, are the gears that are left able to handle the load by themselves over the long run?

That is to say, wouldn't Honda Engineers have taken the silencing gears into account, and counted on them to share the load with the other remaining gears? You'll afterall have less surface area working against, well I don't know what but the other gears?



oh, one other question, with the mod you don't lose the 'gear whine' noise do you? (I suppose not)
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post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hullspeed
one other question, which I don't recall ever being addressed:

Note that I have very weak mechanical knowledge, the following will sound extremely stupid to the wise, I claim no responsibility.

Assume silencing gears are removed, are the gears that are left able to handle the load by themselves over the long run?

That is to say, wouldn't Honda Engineers have taken the silencing gears into account, and counted on them to share the load with the other remaining gears? You'll afterall have less surface area working against, well I don't know what but the other gears?
The silencing gears don't share a load. They are there to keep the main gears at the forwardmost path of travel. They may have a slight load, but it is negligable.
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post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 07:29 PM
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Yes they can handle the load. Those gears are in place because the teeth of the cam gears are cut in such a way that as the two surfaces mate they will sing. This is normal for a gear driven system. So engineers decided it was noisey and wanted to reduce the sound. They added these gears with a spring to make constant contact with the drive gears as they mesh. Thus eliminating the noise created from the two flat gear surfaces. So these actually take the slack out of the system. But note these alone aren't what turns the cam. Thats why you can take them out and not have a valve timming issue.

Hope that helped.
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post #31 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 09:20 PM
 
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I know it seems absurd that these excess gears and parts weigh 15 ounces but take it from someone who was once a disbeliever of the weight reduction and actually did the mod that there are some heavy little pieces of steel holding those gears on to the actual camshaft gear. The spring, which is more like a large and thick circlip, is actually very heavy. And there are four of them in there to remove. I saved the parts from each cam in a bag in case I ever wanted to reverse this mod. Those bags are nearly a pound each.

The gears bear no load at all. They just take up some of the natural slack that is caused by two gears mating. Even with the extra gears there, the load bearing gears still have some slack, so removing the spring loaded gears won't create an excessive wear issue.

The RC51 is not unique to the cam gear silencing design. Many cars and trucks use this design. While managing a auto service shop I was able to witness a Dodge Intrepid V6 being torn down. That particular engine used gears to time the overhead cams and next to those gears was the same spring loaded gear design that the RC51 has. Imagine the racket that car would make if someone decided to remove all those silencing gears? The spring loaded gears are there to satisfy the noise pollution demands and that is about it.
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post #32 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
 
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yup! well that's me getting the silencing gears removed next time I get the valves adjusted
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post #33 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 09:47 PM
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Technically, they are not actually gears. They are "pawls" which are engaged by spring loading. They just look like gears.
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post #34 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 11:18 PM
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im doin the ****in mod and thats that... Its not like people arent already lookin at me funny. Now i just have something for ther ears.
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post #35 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-02-2006, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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I wonder if it would be possible for someone, anyone to post up a sound clip of this mod.
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post #36 of 64 (permalink) Old 01-03-2006, 03:35 AM
 
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The sound hasnt bothered me, i think it bothers everyone else but me lol...The bike has started and ran just the same as it did before and not a hiccup..Now think with them removed and taking a nice chit after breakfast even bigger gain
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post #37 of 64 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 10:55 PM
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BUMP.... LDH, SP2, bueagator, etc.... any thoughts or opinions or anymore feedback on this???/

z
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post #38 of 64 (permalink) Old 09-08-2006, 11:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyzee
BUMP.... LDH, SP2, bueagator, etc.... any thoughts or opinions or anymore feedback on this???/

z
ETC. includes me I guess. I have done this mod and all my thoughts and opinions on it have been shared in the previous posts of mine in this thread. I get the sense you are thinking about doing this mod and want to make sure it won't hurt the bike. It won't. I performed this mod about two years ago when I got my track RC and have sice put a lot of HARD miles on it. I spent last winter tearing into the engine cases for some transmission work and was curious myself about the wear the mod might have caused. There was no wear on the cam gears and the timing gears they mate with.

My :twocents about the mod still stands at this: that it is a easy and fun mod worth doing if you have to go in there for a valve clearance check or something like that. Do know that reversing this mod might require some skill with some proper tools to put the parts that come off the cam gears back on. Do know that the racket it will create will be subject to one's own opinion, as in some think it is loud and just plain noise and others sort of like it. I can't hear myself think at idle around mine but I also like the way it gets rid of the refined sound the RC makes and makes my track RC seem that more track dedicated. Which brings me to my opinion that this is a good mod for a track dedicated RC and maybe not such a good one for an RC that pulls dual duty or mostly street miles.
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post #39 of 64 (permalink) Old 09-09-2006, 03:44 PM
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7 gears totally you should remove, close to 1000 gr weight saving .





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post #40 of 64 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 10:51 PM
 
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As an old guy, I have lived thru the days of low tolerance manufacturing. Oil leaks, failures, inconsistent power. I could go on & on!

Now I am spoiled!

One of the marvelous aspects of the modern, watercooled mc engines is their precise tolerances. More power, smaller package, greater reliability.

I do not understand why anyone would want to introduce gear backlash in the cam train. Cams out of time, impact on the gear teeth, why would you want to do this?

My rant is over!

Thanks guys
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