2 stroke or 4 stroke? 250, 450 or bigger? - Speedzilla Motorcycle Message Forums
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-10-2008, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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2 stroke or 4 stroke? 250, 450 or bigger?

Hey guys,

I am about to enter the dirty side of the world.

I rode a mateīs Suzuki RM250 2 stroke, 60hp. Surprisingly it was really fun to ride, not as hard as I thought.

Then again, a mate of mine told me to get a bigger 450 4 stroke. He said easier to ride and all that. My budget is quite small with 1500 Euros, but my goal is to have a fun dirt motocross ride and get a set of Supermoto wheels for kart race track action with my friends. No racing intended this time.

What do you think, any recommendations?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-10-2008, 07:25 PM
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A 250 2-stroke will probably be cheaper to buy and certainly much cheaper to maintain.




1985 Honda VF1000R, 1990 Ducati 851, 2008 YZ450F
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-11-2008, 12:34 AM
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Any late model 250cc two-stroke will be a great dirt bike. Cheap, light, and easy to maintain.

60hp for a RM250 is a bit optimistic.

"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves a ton of explanation." Saki
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-11-2008, 10:34 PM
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60HP right.



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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-12-2008, 06:40 PM
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4 strokes are much better suited for supermoto. Call them even for most dirt riding.
2 strokes require more maintenance, but the maintenance is cheaper and simpler.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-12-2008, 07:58 PM
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With all due respect for my friend Banda, 2-strokes are not necessarily harder to maintain nor have I found they need much more maintenance. Especially is this true of the VERY "high-strung" modern 4-stroke mx bikes.
I've owned plenty of both and I prefer tearing the top end of a 2-stroke apart to the 4-strokes. Once one becomes proficient at it it's a snap to re-ring a "smoker". As far as riding one, that depends more on where and what kind of riding you'll be doing. I like woods riding (tight woods) and prefer yamahas. I think they're just the easiest to work on.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-12-2008, 08:40 PM
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If you don't have any previous MX experience and want to ride MX tracks don't get a 450! It is way easier to learn to ride MX and ride fast on a 250F. I had a YZ426 and the first time I rode my nephews KTM 250SXF I was immediately faster around the track on it because it was lighter and the power was much more manageable, the Brembo brakes were phucking stellar on it too.

The 450's make so much power it is easy to get out of control, I just feel that the MX riding would be much more fun for a newer rider on a 125/250F.

I was going to supermoto my 426 but I just ended up riding MX instead, looking back I should have probably bought a smaller bike because of the lighter weight and more manageable power.

My personal preference for 2 or 4 stroke bikes are the Yamaha's, of all the bikes my nephew has raced (KTM, Honda, Yamaha) he has had the best durability out of the Yamaha's. But for the most part they are all pretty reliable these days, otherwise I would choose to ride Suzuki second. I just don't care for the Honda's or the Kawasaki's.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-14-2008, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

lovely input, thanks a lot!

I think I will go 2 stroke and try it out. Depends on if I can get something suiting my budget though. Something that does speak for 2 stroke is, that I donīt(!) have any knowledge about them. And itīs interesting on the one hand and pissing me off on the other one. So I better learn how they work and what has to be done to maintain one.

If anyone has further input, like which gear is good and mandatory, hit the keys.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben710 View Post
Hey guys,

lovely input, thanks a lot!

I think I will go 2 stroke and try it out. Depends on if I can get something suiting my budget though. Something that does speak for 2 stroke is, that I donīt(!) have any knowledge about them. And itīs interesting on the one hand and pissing me off on the other one. So I better learn how they work and what has to be done to maintain one.

If anyone has further input, like which gear is good and mandatory, hit the keys.
Helmet, goggles, boots. Absolutely mandatory. Don't go near the bike without them.

Gloves should be considered required as well, but you could get by. You won't be happy without them though.

The pants, jersey, kidney belt, chest protector, etc are nice to have and that protection also gives you confidence. I've had some great times just playing around in jeans and T-shirt (with helmet, gloves, goggles, boots).

A 2-stroke is very simple. If you are familiar with 4-strokes, the 2-stroke will be easy to understand in comparison.




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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-15-2008, 06:28 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks mate,

actually I was more after a "what brand does decent gear" than a "what do I need to wear".

Maybe you want to share your thoughts on that.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-22-2008, 08:34 PM
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I dont have the leg to kick a 450, VERY hard to start. A 250 2 stroke is a monster in power!
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-23-2008, 09:26 AM
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Get a new FI 4-stroke and hold on tight.

60hp was an aggressive estimation but 40 or 60 are both hard to use so you'll never know the difference.

Just ride whatever James Stewart is riding cuz it's obviously the fastest bike made.



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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-25-2008, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ladies and gentlemen, my recent aquisition.

Honda CR 250 MY1993.
Condition: D-







after a good wash:





Has been sitting in a garage for 7 years, not being used. Poor bike.
I gave her a good clean, through which she prolly lost 7kg.
I bled the rear brake and witnessed black brake fluid. Holy SHIT! It really was black, like... black as in pitch black! Never seen that before. Argh.

The bike didnīt run when I bought her. Went to a retail store and bought two new spark plugs (one spare, donīt worry ). She fired up after some swearing. I think I will call her Smokie. Damn. The fuel needs to be replaced, itīs 7 years old as well. Had a flat front tyre when I brought her home. But all that is fixed now. The front brake is a joke. Maybe I will buy new brake pads. Now I need a trailer. My MX boots (Oxtar) came in yesterday. I need a proper helmet now, too. Ordered a workshop manual (Haynes) from the states. Should come in handy.

She needs some more TLC. But I think sheīs in good hands now.

Does anyone know how to make it start better? I would love to use the kickstarter 1-2 times and not for 2 minutes
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 07-12-2009, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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After using it offroad for the past months, itīs recently been sitting on its stand since the weather picked up and the Ducati was ready to roll. I clocked a couple of miles on the Superbike, but somehow the wrenching fever has gotten me again. Therefore I decided it would be cool to try out Supermoto riding!

Since I donīt have a large amount of cash, I decided not to buy another bike. It would have been cool, yeah, yeah, but I couldnīt figure out how to maintain the proper working condition of my 955 SPR, the CR250 and another, probably 4 stroke Supermotard. And then thereīs my mountainbike, which wants a small share of my pocket money as well

So I went out and sourced a set of Supermoto wheels off a MZ Mastiff in 3,5" and 4,5". The best was the price, 200 Euros including rear sprocket and both brake discs. They should be here next week. Another 40 bucks bought me a not-so-nice-looking but well working R6 front brake caliper. It will be a nice addition to my Brembo PSC 16 master cylinder, that came off my 955 SPR when I replaced it with a radial unit.

The only thing I am a bit puzzled about right now is the suspension setup. It definitely needs to be stiffer than for motocross riding, but I donīt know if new springs are needed or if I can get away with adding more oil to the forks? If anyone has input, please share the experience.

No pictures as of now, maybe Iīll bring some along later.

Oh btw - itīs not a 1993, itīs a 1990 CR 250R. Now has a Suzuki front wheel (RM250) with new Honds size bearings and a brake caliper adapter. The old hub broke when we tried to remove the seized wheel bearing...
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-09-2010, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Little update,

I have been fooling around with my CR 250 a bit more since the weather turned to shyte lately. I gave it a spin on Christmas on snow and ice. That was quite special and I had a good laugh.

Since I have never really understood carburetors, I started to look at the CRīs one a but more in detail. Itīs got a 55 slow jet and a 175 main jet. My mate mentioned 175 might be a bit lean and suggested a 178 or 180 main jet. Iīll order a set of jets and start to fool around with the whole thing.




The CRīs idle was crap so I busted out my Haynes manual. After some fiddling with all the cables and screws I got this sorted out:



It idles nicely now

Another thing I thought about was getting an FMF header pipe since mine is pretty beat up (dings allover), but I doubt I can find one for a MY 1990 CR 250. I looked at Motorcycle Superstore (came up on Google) but they only had them for 92- onward. Donīt know if thatīs going to fit.

Yesterday I thought it would be a cool idea to join my first motocross rookie race in 2010. Blood, tears, broken bones? I have no clue, but the idea sounds like fun.






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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2010, 02:25 PM
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I could have misread but at the top you say its a 93 CR and towards the bottom you say its a 90 CR ??? The 3 is pretty far from the 0 on the keyboard so that must be a pretty big typo. If you look at FMF's website they make exhaust for the CR all the way back to 1986 so keep shopping around you'll find what your looking for.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2010, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Hey mate,

thanks for your reply!

It wasnīt a typo. It was sold to me as a 93 and I found out it was a 1990 by checking the engine number via a dealer.

Do you have any experience with the FMF exhaust systems on these model year CRs? I know they make the Gnarly and the Fatty pipes. But I havenīt read any proper thing about these from a first hand experience user.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2010, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
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Hey mate,

thanks for your reply!

It wasnīt a typo. It was sold to me as a 93 and I found out it was a 1990 by checking the engine number via a dealer.

Do you have any experience with the FMF exhaust systems on these model year CRs? I know they make the Gnarly and the Fatty pipes. But I havenīt read any proper thing about these from a first hand experience user.
If memory serves me Gnarly is a low end pipe and Fatty is more of a top end pipe. I use Pro Circuit.

I would get a reed gage next (Boysen or Delta). I have picked them up off ebay for under $50.

When I first saw the picture I was wondering if it was a 90. 91 went to a white tank and 89 had conventional forks. It looks allot better with shrouds.

I have a 92 and 93. I love my bikes. Everyone keeps telling me to upgrade but I can’t use all that I have now so why. I have always wanted to convert one for street. Not sure the motor would hold up.

Fast bike slow rider
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-12-2010, 10:13 PM
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I to have used only Pro Circuit on any of the two strokes I have owned. I had a 98 KX250 and the thing was just to dang much so I got me an 02 YZ250F 4stroke and its much better. I've been looking at the FMF for my bike but the things are really expensive so I'm stuck with the stock pipe for now.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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If memory serves me Gnarly is a low end pipe and Fatty is more of a top end pipe. I use Pro Circuit.

I would get a reed gage next (Boysen or Delta). I have picked them up off ebay for under $50.

When I first saw the picture I was wondering if it was a 90. 91 went to a white tank and 89 had conventional forks. It looks allot better with shrouds.

I have a 92 and 93. I love my bikes. Everyone keeps telling me to upgrade but I can’t use all that I have now so why. I have always wanted to convert one for street. Not sure the motor would hold up.
Hi Waldo!

Thanks for replying mate, glad to see I am not the only 2 stroke rider in here and writing all that stuff eventually does interest someone besides me

I just googled the reed gage, I guess you meant rad valve? At least thatīs what came up together with the name Boysen. Seems like itīll give you more power, but to be honest, the smoker has plenty of that. When the revs go out I sometimes feel I got to chain myself to the bike on WOT so I wonīt fall off

Iīd want to change the exhaust because my stock exhaust is very beaten up. Lots of dings and it has been welded numerous times, still itīs somewhat leaking occasionally. Unburnt gas I think.

Show us a pic of your 92 and the 93! Always glad to see other peopleīs bikes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jgos929 View Post
I to have used only Pro Circuit on any of the two strokes I have owned. I had a 98 KX250 and the thing was just to dang much so I got me an 02 YZ250F 4stroke and its much better. I've been looking at the FMF for my bike but the things are really expensive so I'm stuck with the stock pipe for now.
Hey jgos929,
thanks for the input mate. I will look into the Pro Circuit exhausts, hoping they will have something for a 1990 CR 250 in stock. I think the 4 strokes might be more manageable. But I like to be frightened by the screaming 2 stroke riot. Plus the 2 stroke seems to be cheaper to maintain as it seems to me. I already have a Ducati. No need for more bikes that are expensive to maintain
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