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post #41 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Baasinator View Post
I call bullshit. You've never seen a free market.

There is no perfect candidate. So you have to decide what our most important issues are, and then see who has the best positions on the important stuff. I think America is doomed because of excessive spending and out-of-control debt. Combined with The Fed's behavior, I'm concerned about what happens to our Republic when the dollar collapses. I'm more concerned about that than I am about Iran's Nukes or any upcoming terrorist attacks. So Ron Paul is my man. Even if he's elected, he can't actually pull ALL of our troops back home at once on his own, but it is nice to have somebody steering the debate toward the important issues. We can't afford to police the world and we can't afford to be a welfare state (well, we might be able to do either one alone, but no both). Something has to change, and the change has to be drastic.

Herb Stein's Law: "If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." We can't keep spending money we don't have forever. It will stop one way or another...
Technicaly, that's true. A COMPLETELY free market can never exist. Nit picker.

We do have the money. It's in the portfolios of rich people (combined with certain reductions in spending and fraud of course). The top rate has gone from over 90% to 35% AND capital gains has been reduced too - the "job creators" have pocketed their largesse.
Our problem is not just a problem of spending. But some of us see it that way. Fine, but let's just admit how we've gotten to where we are. No one philosophy is without blame. Some people in Congress don't see it that way. That's why their rating is in single digits. They cast blame and don't accept any. Hard to do when Clinton left Bush a surplus, no matter how legitimate it was or wasn't.

My wife is waiting for me so we can go for a walk so I don't want to look up links but doesn't Ron Paul want to cut government spending by about a third?
Isn't that what is largely to blame for starting the great depression?
Reducing government spending harms the economy, admit it or not. Paul is a mistake in several different ways.

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post #42 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-04-2012, 01:31 PM
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So...are 22% of Iowa caucus voters just misguided, or do they realize that Mormom Romney will never be electable because of the Christian right? That Perry is a buffoon, Gingrich is wildly unlikable although capable of the job, and Santorum benefitted from free press for a week so the news outlets would have a "race" to report on?

This is an interesting essay from a site I visit almost daily.
charles hugh smith-The Ministry of Propaganda Declares Ron Paul "Unelectable"

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The Ministry of Propaganda Declares Ron Paul "Unelectable" (January 3, 2012)


The Ministry of Propaganda has chosen to suppress the only dangerous-to-the-Power Elites candidate by declaring him "unelectable."
Quote:

The Status Quo's Ministry of Propaganda has a single political task for 2012: eliminate the sole threat to the Status Quo (Ron Paul) from the running, leaving voters with a "choice" of clueless stooges for the Power Elite.
That roster includes President Obama and the daytime-TV/soap-opera field of Republicrat contenders.
The Ministry of Propaganda has settled on a ludicrous strategy to eliminate Ron Paul: declare Paul "unelectable."
As with all propaganda, the basic idea is that if it is repeated often enough on officially sanctioned stages, it will eventually be accepted as "true."
Our Christmas-New Year's week of family visits took us to homes where the television is on all the time, and as a result I was exposed to the Ministry of Propaganda's preferred media, TV "news." Regardless of the channel or program, the message was the same: "The presidential race will between Obama and either Romney or Gingrich."
Despite the polls that find Paul and Romney with equal levels of support in Iowa, Romney has been declared the front-runner and Paul written off as "unelectable."
In other words, the voters don't even need to check in; the Ministry of Propaganda's army of toadies, lackeys and media apparatchiks have their marching orders: repeat that Ron Paul is unelectable at every opportunity, either explicitly or implicitly via leaving him off the list of "frontrunners."
The Ministry of Propaganda's campaign is easily revealed by two simple thought experiments. How would the corporate media characterize Newt Gingrich's "electability" if he was running neck-and-neck with Romney? Answer: the media toadies would be falling over each other to declare Gingrich "electable."
Now repeat the experiment with Rick Santorum or Michelle Bachmann. The answer is the same: since these candidates are on the list of Power-Elites approved stooges, a showing equal to Ron Paul's would instantly win them veritable tsunamis of media coverage, all focused on their eminent "electability."
Here is the second thought experiment: does anyone seriously think any of the Republicrat candidates are even remotely qualified to deal with the crises brewing on the horizon? What exactly makes them "electable"?
Let's consider them one at a time, scrubbed of spin, PR and propaganda:
Mitt Romney: the perfect player for a remake of "The Stepford Wives" entitled "The Stepford Politicos." Romney is the personification of the telegenic, wealthy empty suit, devoid of any ideas beyond retreads of Status Quo tweaks that leave the Power Elite--of which he is a member--safely in charge.
Romney's "electability" rests on the hopes that the hard drives from his time as governor stay safely erased and that zombified voters conclude that having a family and membership in a church are sufficient qualifications for President.
His handlers have carefully studied the political satire The Candidate and have not yet formulated an answer to the question, "What do we do now?" should the wealthy pawn of the Power Elite improbably win the presidency.
Michelle Bachmann: Imagine her wearing a witch's hat, it isn't hard to do; Bachmann is the ideal Wicked Witch of the West, but without the charisma. She does have a host of frightful winged monkeys, though--her handlers.
Newt Gingrich: Gingrich has a number of redeeming characteristics, starting with his famously unsavory "baggage" that reveals an appealingly flawed core. He is also the only Republicrat candidate that wouldn't bore you to despair within a few minutes, i.e. he actually strays from the canned scripts approved by the Ministry of Propaganda. Third, on occasion he actually reveals glimmers of awareness that the next 10 years will not be like the previous decade, and that America is at a critical crossroads.
Unfortunately, his canned ideology-as-"solution" ideas expired a decade ago and he has no coherent vision of a future that isn't just a slightly modified version of the Power-Elite dominated one that is now hurtling toward instability.
He has shown a remarkable ability, however, to hide his horns and forked tail.
Rick Perry: Another telegenic empty suit who hoped that having a family and membership in a church qualified him for the presidency.
Rick Santorum: Rick's ruthlessness has its charm, starting with his long and painful campaign to establish a simulacrum of intellectual "seriousness." Like all the other stooges, his version of "the vision thing" is a tepid edit of the Status Quo. Like all the stooges other than the refreshingly flawed Gingrich, he hopes membership in a church qualifies him for the presidency.
What all the candidates but Ron Paul dare not acknowledge because it isn't on the approved Ministry of Propaganda script is that the Status Quo is heading off a cliff at the direct behest of the nation's Power Elite. The only candidate that has "the vision thing" and that clearly enunciates exactly how the Power Elite's policies have led the nation off a cliff of insolvency and Imperial hubris is Ron Paul.
For this sin against the Status Quo and its Power Elite, Paul has been excommunicated, and the (pardon my language) smarmy army of corporate media whores cannot declare him "unelectable" often enough.That is proof that he is highly electable, for otherwise the Ministry of Propaganda wouldn't be running a campaign of such transparent desperation.



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post #43 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-04-2012, 03:39 PM
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I just read that in the last caucus only 5% of Iowans voted. That, combined with the fact that Iowa is pretty far to one extreme in political thought means that the Iowa caucus is way over-rated and probably not even worth covering. The only reason it gets so much press is because it's first. It's no big deal.

I don't think Gingrich is "capable of the job". I think he has a screw loose.
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post #44 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-04-2012, 05:55 PM
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I just read that in the last caucus only 5% of Iowans voted. That, combined with the fact that Iowa is pretty far to one extreme in political thought means that the Iowa caucus is way over-rated and probably not even worth covering. The only reason it gets so much press is because it's first. It's no big deal.

I don't think Gingrich is "capable of the job". I think he has a screw loose.
More capable than Perry or Bachman for sure. Romney is going to be the nominee barring any unforseen revelations.

And Obama will be President until January 2017.

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post #45 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-04-2012, 11:24 PM
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I hope they nominate pRick Sanctimonirum. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot!
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post #46 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 04:01 AM
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More capable than Perry or Bachman for sure. Romney is going to be the nominee barring any unforseen revelations.

And Obama will be President until January 2017.
Although I'm still interested in seeing RP do well, I wouldn't bank of Romney losing IF he picks up the right VP. Don't forget Christie and he are blowing a lot smoke up each others asses and lotsa people are loving on the chubby bastid.

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post #47 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 04:40 PM
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I like Christie (what little I've seen). Romney's not a GOP fruit. They'd have a chance.
But jobless claims are dropping and numbers say the economy is starting to pick up.
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post #48 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 06:04 PM
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If Ron Paul was younger and a little more Presidential, he would connect a lot better with the younger generation, just like Obama did in 2008. I like most of his ideas, and he is truly a STEP away from all the other politicians.... I don't see anything changing if Romney or any of the other jokers get in... for a country moving straight at financial disaster and losing touch with reality of global competition, we need someone who can talk about the important stuff. WTF gives a shit about Iran having a nuclear weapon... the Russians and Chinese have how many? Shit, even Pakistan has them.

As for Rick Santorum preaching the manufacturing jobs... he is selling a pipe dream... the U.S. will never get its mfg back from China, for the simple reason that you will be hard pressed to find any American who will want to work for $0.20/hour.... and THAT is the bottomline!

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post #49 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 07:10 PM
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If Ron Paul was younger and a little more Presidential, he would connect a lot better with the younger generation, just like Obama did in 2008. I like most of his ideas, and he is truly a STEP away from all the other politicians.... I don't see anything changing if Romney or any of the other jokers get in... for a country moving straight at financial disaster and losing touch with reality of global competition, we need someone who can talk about the important stuff. WTF gives a shit about Iran having a nuclear weapon... the Russians and Chinese have how many? Shit, even Pakistan has them.

As for Rick Santorum preaching the manufacturing jobs... he is selling a pipe dream... the U.S. will never get its mfg back from China, for the simple reason that you will be hard pressed to find any American who will want to work for $0.20/hour.... and THAT is the bottomline!
Yeah. Iran with nukes is probably not going to be a problem but it could be. It's anybodies guess. Mostly, that government is full of hot air designed to manipulate their citizens. I don't see them ever touching Israel in any direct way. What's in it for them? Annyhilation?

China is cheap but it's starting to face problems. Costs are rising quickly. The people are learning more about the outside. Chinese leaders must be concerned about their future. But you're right, manufacturing is not coming here for a long time. Globalization is a fact of life. The only immediate recourse is protectionism and that's risky.
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post #50 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 08:30 PM
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As for Rick Santorum preaching the manufacturing jobs... he is selling a pipe dream... the U.S. will never get its mfg back from China, for the simple reason that you will be hard pressed to find any American who will want to work for $0.20/hour.... and THAT is the bottomline!
A nice import tariff to:
1) Equalize the added value of labor for the $0.20/hr you mention to what it would be in the US
2) Impact to the environmental laws the US has to adhere to that many others do not.
3) The tax dodger corporations who moved offshore to avoid US corporate tax.

Assigning a value to those three goals would be hard for sure. But in the end the Apples and Whirlpools of the world would suddenly discover it is better to build in the US again.

Another thing that will eventually crush globalization for many low-margin products is high transportation costs. this was already becoming an issue in summer 2008 before the world fell apart.

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post #51 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-05-2012, 09:44 PM
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A nice import tariff to:
1) Equalize the added value of labor for the $0.20/hr you mention to what it would be in the US
2) Impact to the environmental laws the US has to adhere to that many others do not.
3) The tax dodger corporations who moved offshore to avoid US corporate tax.

Assigning a value to those three goals would be hard for sure. But in the end the Apples and Whirlpools of the world would suddenly discover it is better to build in the US again.

Another thing that will eventually crush globalization for many low-margin products is high transportation costs. this was already becoming an issue in summer 2008 before the world fell apart.
My problem with tariffs, is that they are put in place by politicians. Frequently for the sole benefit of whomever has them in their pocket.

Classic example: St. Louis Beacon - Companies, lawmakers battle "antidumping" tariffs on magnesium

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post #52 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 04:53 PM
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Tarrifs only help slow down the import of Chinese goods into the U.S., and unless you get global agreement (highly unlikely) China will continue to sell those goods for cheaper everywhere else in the world. So the people living in the U.S. get screwed by paying higher prices for the same Chinese good when compared to the rest of the world.

This is exactly why manufacturing won't come back. It all boils down to what standard of living is accepatable in China versus the U.S. As long as we have unions here and a general expectation of higher wages than anywhere else, we will lose that competition.

As far as taxing companies who have shifted their manufacturing overseas, you don't want to push them to moving the whole company overseas! In today's global economy most large companies are quite comfortable in operating from anywhere and will escape unreasonable taxation by just moving shop and taking the white collared jobs with them too.

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post #53 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 02:29 PM
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Personally I don't blame individuals for opening their manufacturing operations overseas. I blame thegovernment and (government backled) unions for making it impossible to do business here in the US.

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post #54 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Turd Ferguson View Post
doesn't Ron Paul want to cut government spending by about a third?
Isn't that what is largely to blame for starting the great depression?
Reducing government spending harms the economy, admit it or not. Paul is a mistake in several different ways.
Cutting govt spending will let you and I into the equation, allow us access to capital at a cheaper price, and to be more productive with it. Govt out of the way is the best solution for the vast majority of industries.
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post #55 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 03:56 PM
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Crazy old Uncle Ron shotgunning the field and hitting most of them last night.

He might have finished off Newt
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post #56 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 05:02 PM
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A nice import tariff to:
1) Equalize the added value of labor for the $0.20/hr you mention to what it would be in the US
2) Impact to the environmental laws the US has to adhere to that many others do not.
3) The tax dodger corporations who moved offshore to avoid US corporate tax.

Assigning a value to those three goals would be hard for sure. But in the end the Apples and Whirlpools of the world would suddenly discover it is better to build in the US again.

Another thing that will eventually crush globalization for many low-margin products is high transportation costs. this was already becoming an issue in summer 2008 before the world fell apart.
bold^
I know...
Why don't we drill more so we can increase crude supplies (even though we are a net fuel exporter) so that it doesn't cost so much to ship from China? Then, they can continue to take our manufacturing jobs.

That goes double for the Keystone XL pipeline. Why do oil companies want that pipeline? Answer: So they can refine it at the gulf and ship it overseas.
But China will get it one way or another. They've already offered to pay for a pipeline to Vancouver, which actually, may make more sense.
The expanded Panama Canal plays into this too.
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post #57 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 05:09 PM
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Personally I don't blame individuals for opening their manufacturing operations overseas. I blame thegovernment and (government backled) unions for making it impossible to do business here in the US.
People. People look around and see the size of the pie and they naturaly want a piece of it. It's human nature, pal. It ain't the gubment.
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post #58 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 05:13 PM
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How many people were taking him seriously?
Answer: Not enough.

Look at Clinton at the start. He looks like he's on ecstacy.
He's thinking: Brown sugar, blow me.
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post #59 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 02:03 AM
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Ron Paul Will Win The Presidential Election 2012 - Here's The Proof !!
http://www.rtr.org/videos/26054/3776...the-presidenti

Uploaded by GetRenewable on Jan 11, 2012

This is Proof: Ron Paul will win the presidential election in 2012. These are the main candidates for the upcoming elections. Notice the number of Likes and dislikes on each video. Ron Paul Dominates all by Thousands of percent. This is our new President. Dr. Ron Paul. Please keep up the good work and victory is ours. Gain Liberty. End Debt. Vote Ron Paul! New Hampshire Speech By All Presidential Candidates. PLEASE VIEW EVIDENCE: Below...

Rick Santorum: [link to www.youtube.com]
(1489 views - 9 likes 76 dislikes)

Newt Gingrich: [link to www.youtube.com]
(3,082 views - 16 likes / 124 dislikes)

Jon Huntsman: [link to www.youtube.com]
(3,087 views - 35 likes 100 dislikes)

Mitt Romney: [link to www.youtube.com]
(20,600 views - 335 likes 690 dislikes!!) and they call him the winner! hahahah

RON PAUL: [link to www.youtube.com]
(129,000 views - 3,916 likes - 44 dislikes.)

Now YOU tell me who is gonna win. It's an obvious landslide victory.
--------------

Can you explain why Ron Paul was always put at 2nd or 3rd wile therewas a landslide in straw poll?

This is a covert totalitarian country where the election is controlled by the Feds. They pick up their favorite candidate by rigged election and justify the result by fake poll. (because they control the media. _)
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post #60 of 93 (permalink) Old 01-13-2012, 05:46 AM
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Can you form a sentence or thought of your own or are you just going to cut/paste your way through this and other message forums forever? Its getting old and your posts are generally just a waste of bandwidth. You're making no sense on multiple message forums.

Controlled election

Media suppress Ron Paul | ContraCostaTimes.com Forums

http://letsrollforums.com/ron-paul-h...179p3.html?amp;

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