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post #1 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-19-2011, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Oil

Everyone is bitching about the price of fuel yet almost no one seems to understand the market and the reasons for high prices.

Here'a a little gem from Drudge to show you the way:
Koch Hoards Oil, Profits on Speculation | Drudge Retort

Notice the part:
"under the Obama administration, oil production is at record highs and there is adequate global supply of crude. As Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) commissioner Bart Chilton has explained, rampant oil speculation, which is at its highest level on record right now, is to blame for current prices."

Ladies and gentlemen, we are getting hosed by, once again by, unregulated capitalist greed. And who is in on it? Why it's our New York friends who dabble in Wisconsin politics in order to get sweet deals on energy - the Koch brothers.

"Big banks and companies like Koch Industries employ a "contango" strategy by buying up oil and storing it to lock in the oil for sale later at a set price. In December 2008, Koch leased four supertankers "to hold oil in the U.S. Gulf Coast to take advantage of rising prices in the months ahead," Fortune magazine's Jon Birger reported. This could have raised gas prices by "anywhere from 20 to 40 cents a gallon."

Here's anohter link with more info:
Oil Industry Statistics from Gibson Consulting - prices

The value of the dollar is another big factor but I better leave something for everyone else to work on. Links?

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
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Last edited by Area 51; 04-19-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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post #2 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-19-2011, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Gas Price Historical Price Charts - GasBuddy.com



What would cause such a huge drop from July 2008 until January 2009?

The recent climb can be explained by speculatior's reaction to unrest in the Middel East.

Such an ustable market for something that has a pretty steady use rate. Has production changed enough to account for the big swings? Doubtful.

What would that graph look like if speculators were removed from the equation? Would a nationised energy system be better or worse?

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #3 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-19-2011, 07:15 PM
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Speculation was also a big part of the rise in 2008 as well. After the economic meltdown it crashed into the low $30s. So what is the "correct" price of oil today given the real supply and real demand? I would say between $60-80/barrel. Saudis know this and announced over the weekend they are cutting production. (Whether this is real or their fields are dropping more than they are letting on is debatable).

Speculators have used the ME unrest this time around to bid up the price. Last time it was expected global demand, artifically raised somewhat by China and their controlled economy. They wanted a spectacle and to show the world they have arrived with the Beijing Olympics. When we were there in 2006 the number of construction projects in the city was incredible. You could look in any direction and see 30 of the huge construction sky cranes. They basically rebuilt that city and made sure the entire coast was factory after factory down to Shanghai. When China crashes, it will crash hard. They have something like 60 million empty residences, built and bought on speculation. They have massive overcapacity in production capabilities, and have used some of their reserves to stockpile tons of industrial metals. If China ever decided to turn within themselves and revert to their traditional isolationist stance, places like Australia which supplies those metals are completely gang raped.

It is not just oil. Corn, lead, copper, & silver are currently near or above all-time highs.

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post #4 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-20-2011, 02:44 AM
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What libs aren't pointing out is that with speculation the reason that they're running to commodities like oil/gold is that US Monetary policy is forcing investors to look at other options aside from the US Dollar.

With Obama's financial plan that is gutting the value of the US Dollar on the world market, things like oil/gold are more desireable. If the US Government didn't print money with nothing backing it and the continual borrowing of foreign currency to keep us afloat, its a no brainer that investors don't like the future prospects if the US Dollar and invest their money in commodities.

Strenghen the US Dollar and the cost of the commodities will drop....

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post #5 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-20-2011, 06:43 PM
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I've said it before, an' I'll say it again, EVERY time OPEC raises the price of crude by one dollar a gallon, the US should raise the price of a bushel of grain by a buck......let's see who backs down first! Since we have BOTH, and "they" import something like 99% of their food, I think we'll win.....

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post #6 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RockyMt View Post
I've said it before, an' I'll say it again, EVERY time OPEC raises the price of crude by one dollar a gallon, the US should raise the price of a bushel of grain by a buck......let's see who backs down first! Since we have BOTH, and "they" import something like 99% of their food, I think we'll win.....

Semper Fi!

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I agree whole heartedly, unfortunately our government doesn't have the balls to do anything remotely even close that. I also say that the terrorist/education/tourism visas are something that should be ended.

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post #7 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 03:20 AM
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#1 reason is that commodities will reflect whats going on with the money supply.... simple, same thing with my groceries...
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post #8 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Area 51 View Post
Everyone is bitching about the price of fuel yet almost no one seems to understand the market and the reasons for high prices.
Where was this thread from 2001 to 2008?
Weren't you one of the morons beating the 'Bush Black Gold' drum?

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post #9 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 20_RC51_00 View Post
#1 reason is that commodities will reflect whats going on with the money supply.... simple, same thing with my groceries...
Good luck trying to figure out what the truth is about money supply. On the one hand you have this:
What Will Increase In U.S. Money Supply Mean For Rest Of The World? - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty © 2011

And on the other hand you have these:
THE EXPLODING U.S. MONEY SUPPLY MYTH…. | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

US money supply plunges at 1930s pace as Obama eyes fresh stimulus - Telegraph


As far as I'm concerned, I won't believe anyone when it comes to money supply hysteria. Even the people who follow this can't agree. Must be more politics.

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
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"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #10 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XFBO View Post
Where was this thread from 2001 to 2008?
Weren't you one of the morons beating the 'Bush Black Gold' drum?
I don't know. Did you start a thread that I missed?

Without looking into it I'd assume that speculators drove up the price of oil in response to the Iraq war. I remember oil companies making record profits at that time. There is probably a connection. But I'm not really concerned with Bush. Except for the Bush/Trickle Down Recession, Bush is just a bad memory.

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.

Last edited by Area 51; 04-21-2011 at 05:09 PM.
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post #11 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-21-2011, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nycstripes View Post
What libs aren't pointing out is that with speculation the reason that they're running to commodities like oil/gold is that US Monetary policy is forcing investors to look at other options aside from the US Dollar.

With Obama's financial plan that is gutting the value of the US Dollar on the world market, things like oil/gold are more desireable. If the US Government didn't print money with nothing backing it and the continual borrowing of foreign currency to keep us afloat, its a no brainer that investors don't like the future prospects if the US Dollar and invest their money in commodities.

Strenghen the US Dollar and the cost of the commodities will drop....
Care to guess how much we borrowed to finance our never-ending war/nation-buildings? All of that was/is borrowed.

Or what about the trade imballance? Isn't that one of our biggest problems, maybe our BIGGEST problem? Would not a weaker dollar help us there?

How is Obama's financial plan "gutting" the US dollar? Are you talking about bailouts and stimulus that avoided 20-30% unemployment? Or are you talking about the exploding money supply that may be a myth?

More importantly, where was Obama born?

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #12 of 263 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 06:59 AM
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If you recall, I am not in favor of doing anything that doesn't resemble turning the ME into a glass ashtray. Since taking the helm, the offender in chief has neither gotten us out of Iraq nor done anything to help win or end our involvement in Afghanistan.
Topping things off he's entered us into Libya in a shooting war where we'll probably be drawn into sending ground troops into the fray.

So, whatever your hero is doing, its still costing us a shit ton of money and lives.

Barack to his economics...none of it is working. No jobs are being created or saved. He's spending money we don't have at a record pace and we're only going to be worse off for it.

Borrowing cargo ships full of money, printing more of it that is backed up by nothing and raising the debt ceiling is ruining the US Dollar. That's why people are investing in commodities you moron. Nobody trusts stocks where the US Dollar is declining in value. They'd rather invest in something tangible like oil, gold, silver wheat or something other than paper money from the US.


In case you haven't heard, nobody cares where he was born...he is still a clueless buffoon raised by a Marxist educated American born mother.

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post #13 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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^ Sorry to tell you, Meathead, but you're wrong on all counts.







S.O.S. Now - Stop Oil Speculation Now - The Solution

"...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel)
"When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
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post #14 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 11:51 PM
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^ Sorry to tell you, Meathead, but you're wrong on all counts.







S.O.S. Now - Stop Oil Speculation Now - The Solution
IQ51, you must be the dumbest a55hole I know...

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post #15 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 06:35 AM
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Or start pulling our own oil/shale/NG out of the ground en-mass. This would stick it to OPEC and our good friends the Russians who's whole economy rides on the price of oil being high...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMt View Post
I've said it before, an' I'll say it again, EVERY time OPEC raises the price of crude by one dollar a gallon, the US should raise the price of a bushel of grain by a buck......let's see who backs down first! Since we have BOTH, and "they" import something like 99% of their food, I think we'll win.....

Semper Fi!

-Rocky-
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post #16 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 04:07 PM
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In case you haven't heard, nobody cares where he was born...he is still a clueless buffoon raised by a Marxist educated American born mother.
You obviously know nothing of political science... or any science really. I'd love to debate you on a stage.. stooge. A stage where it mattered. Maybe Jesus would be standing by to call you out when you casually lie and deceive and hate your way through 'facts'.. You are an emotional, frightened little man with child responses. You know what you hate/fear and you make up the rest... You might want to stop playing with your own feces... if you plan to make a career in political circles. Otherwise, you're really just a failed churchy hacky type who thinks his superstitious emotions are valid substitution for fact and truth and good measure... not good for the business at hand.. just look at your results!

This is the essence of it all A-51... It's like NEro casually saying "everyone knows GWB is an idiot"... After how many years of praise, excuse, denial and defense? Makes you wonder where you'd be f these dipshits held the same 'super patriotic' approval stick to GWB.. but hey,no, he was their savoir and chief...Now, the evil 'replacement' is Satan.. in the flesh! lol.
Here you have NYC, one of the biggest hate mongering, pudknocking fussbudgets right wingism ever produced, simply saying nobody cares where the man was born. So, it was all about what then? The very spot in which he was born ruled their lives for years and yet.. all of a sudden... nobody cares.
Take 99% of right wingism and thats what you have in a year or two, Nothing anyone should care about. Just a big ball of racism, fascism and lies. Poor performance in any standard or record. Like climate records being set everywhere, they break their stupidity records with every passing month. Hoaxes and evil, commie muslims and brown skinned 'farin' enemies. That wretched thing called the truth. That enemy of all right wingers.. the US Constitution.. or, as they sanction... "God damned piece of paper"... Did these assholes kidnap or kill all the 'conservatives'?

Our right winged, dark souled, anti Jesus, wannbe angels are bankrupt... Now we see their historical love of dictators, foreign aggression, disrespect of treaty, law and honor...and hatred of the nature and the Union. Dont they love torture, subversion of democracies and spying and bank robbers and secrets? Dont they hate science and evil scientists, evil school teachers, evil unions and evil doctors and activists(except the Tbagger Party)... Everything wrong with their pathetic mindsets, stature and predicament...it's Obama's fault... Like blaming Mexico for their drug problem. The middle east for their energy problems or god for their lack of a soul.

Lets keep tally of these seemingly endless screeches and whining.. For what? I dunno, it never ends really. Maybe, if they had to eat their words, they couldn't speak for a while.. wouldn't that be nice? The hoax du jour, du decade is simply dismissed after a critical mass is reached... The mass of facts and results that never seems to match what they claim, what they predict or what they promise. So, they move on to, yet another, scam, hoax, claim... Yay.. right wingers are the proudest failures America has ever produced... but hey, nobody cares...

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post #17 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 08:36 PM
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^ Hey, can I have the 60 seconds of my life back that it took to read that tripe? After all that, the ONLY sentence that;

A. Made ANY sense
and
B. Was correct

was the last line................"nobody really cares" (what ms. gaggy has to snivel about) What a wasted life you lead, yer pussy must get less use than Billarys........

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post #18 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
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Looks like I got under his skirt a little too much today Rocky...

Noise and pocket knife rattling from North of the other soft border...

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post #19 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Area 51 View Post
Everyone is bitching about the price of fuel yet almost no one seems to understand the market and the reasons for high prices.

Here'a a little gem from Drudge to show you the way:
Koch Hoards Oil, Profits on Speculation | Drudge Retort

Notice the part:
"under the Obama administration, oil production is at record highs and there is adequate global supply of crude. As Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) commissioner Bart Chilton has explained, rampant oil speculation, which is at its highest level on record right now, is to blame for current prices."

Ladies and gentlemen, we are getting hosed by, once again by, unregulated capitalist greed. And who is in on it? Why it's our New York friends who dabble in Wisconsin politics in order to get sweet deals on energy - the Koch brothers.

"Big banks and companies like Koch Industries employ a "contango" strategy by buying up oil and storing it to lock in the oil for sale later at a set price. In December 2008, Koch leased four supertankers "to hold oil in the U.S. Gulf Coast to take advantage of rising prices in the months ahead," Fortune magazine's Jon Birger reported. This could have raised gas prices by "anywhere from 20 to 40 cents a gallon."

Here's anohter link with more info:
Oil Industry Statistics from Gibson Consulting - prices

The value of the dollar is another big factor but I better leave something for everyone else to work on. Links?
So, speculation on the stock market is good but speculation on the commodity market is bad? Care to explain why one is more evil than the other?

Speculation has become the bad buzz word for investment. Same should go to all the libs who "speculated" in the housing market and other areas that the Government seemed to want people to invest money.

Rearding the price of fuel...
how much is profit to the oil company versus how much of the cost is government imposed tax on a gallon of fuel?

Side note...wonder what happened to all the names of people hiding money in Switzerland?? I wonder how many prominent Democarat Socialists were on that list before the story disappeared?

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post #20 of 263 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 11:55 PM
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^ That P.O.S. soros was one of 'em, but you can bet yer ass Oh-Bomb-Us and his lapdog holder will NEVER go after HIM! (intentional non-caps to demonstrate disrespect.....)

Semper Fi!

-Rocky-

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