Glenn Beck vs. Van Jones

[G8RDuc]

Or as much as Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy make the left look kooky....God forbid Joe Wilson yell the truth....

Originally Posted by Area 51

That's easy. He's just a nincompoop. He says all kinds of things that don't approach reality. The 9/11 conspiracy angle makes the left look as kooky as Joe Wilson does the right, IMO.

[Area 51]

Joe Wilson is a man who led the fight to keep the Confederate flag on top of his state's capital.

Joe Wilson (via Wiki):
"Controversy over "hatred of America" remark
On a 2002 live broadcast of the C-SPAN talk show Washington Journal, guests Wilson and Democratic congressman Bob Filner were discussing Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. When Filner said that the US "gave" Iraq "chemical and biological weapons" in the 1980s, Wilson said this idea was "made up" and commented to Filner "This hatred of America by some people is just outrageous. And you need to get over that." Wilson apologized for his remarks in statements to the press.[19][20]
Criticism of Strom Thurmond's daughter
In 2003, Essie Mae Washington-Williams' revealed that she was the daughter of Wilson's former employer, the late Senator Strom Thurmond, and Thurmond's black maid. Wilson was among those who publicly doubted her claim that Thurmond had a child out of wedlock. Wilson said even if her story was true, she should not have revealed it because "it's a smear" on Thurmond's image and was a way to "diminish" Thurmond's legacy.[21] After Thurmond's family acknowledged the truth of Washington-Williams' revelation, Wilson apologized but said that he still thought that she should not have revealed that Thurmond was her father.[22]"

Are you sure Joe Wilson is the type of guy you want to be associated with?

[G8RDuc]

First, I'm not associated with him.

Second, none of what you posted diminishes the fact that he spoke the truth when Obama spoke about immigrants and free health care. If it wasn't the truth, why are they NOW trying to make sure that illegal aliens can't abuse the system in the proposed reform package?

Originally Posted by Area 51

Joe Wilson is a man who led the fight to keep the Confederate flag on top of his state's capital.

Joe Wilson (via Wiki):
"Controversy over "hatred of America" remark
On a 2002 live broadcast of the C-SPAN talk show Washington Journal, guests Wilson and Democratic congressman Bob Filner were discussing Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. When Filner said that the US "gave" Iraq "chemical and biological weapons" in the 1980s, Wilson said this idea was "made up" and commented to Filner "This hatred of America by some people is just outrageous. And you need to get over that." Wilson apologized for his remarks in statements to the press.[19][20]
Criticism of Strom Thurmond's daughter
In 2003, Essie Mae Washington-Williams' revealed that she was the daughter of Wilson's former employer, the late Senator Strom Thurmond, and Thurmond's black maid. Wilson was among those who publicly doubted her claim that Thurmond had a child out of wedlock. Wilson said even if her story was true, she should not have revealed it because "it's a smear" on Thurmond's image and was a way to "diminish" Thurmond's legacy.[21] After Thurmond's family acknowledged the truth of Washington-Williams' revelation, Wilson apologized but said that he still thought that she should not have revealed that Thurmond was her father.[22]"

Are you sure Joe Wilson is the type of guy you want to be associated with?

[RockyMt]

Duc, this rounds on me!

CLINK!

-Rocky-

[Gog]

Of course you'll have a drink to yet another failure.

G8RDuc
Second, none of what you posted diminishes the fact that he spoke the truth when Obama spoke about immigrants and free health care. If it wasn't the truth, why are they NOW trying to make sure that illegal aliens can't abuse the system in the proposed reform package?

Spoke the truth? hahahah Republicans dont kow WTF truth is anymore. Just like Bush, they tell so many lies that they go crazy trying to remember. Then they act crazy by denying basic truths and simple facts. That is a fact.

The only thing that sac of white trash crap wouldn't "apologize" for is a lynching...

[RockyMt]

gag, isn't there SOMEWHERE (else) you need to be. For being a canuk, you sure are fascinated with EVERYTHING we do here, the only problem with that is, yer Fookin CLUELESS! Now go and look up something in Wikipedia for us, let's start with Al Gore, look him up under......
FAIL! (right neXt to johnny kerry and edwards...........)

-ROCKY-

[Gog]

Originally Posted by Area 51

That's easy. He's just a nincompoop. He says all kinds of things that don't approach reality. The 9/11 conspiracy angle makes the left look as kooky as Joe Wilson does the right, IMO.

I disagree. I think that unfounded claims of the trade centers being explosively demolished are pretty kooky but Bush having prior knowledge of airliners being hijacked is pretty obvious. They simply cannot lie their way out of it. The timelines DO NOT support the official statements...period.

Maybe you can explain(for fun, since there are no right wing takers) how Bush could elaborate himself out of a credible alibi by saying there was a monitor outside the classroom or that he thought/said "that was one was a terrible pilot" or the heart attack reference. It would be impossible for him to confuse the two, especially with his very specific references. Nobody thought the second plane was a terrible pilot and nobody saw the first plane hit...right? All that is left is a terrible lie.

He did see the first plane hit, I dont doubt it but, it wasn't on public TV. His lying, stooge faced reaction to the the news "we're under attack" was a blatant liars grin and a deceptive act to feign contemplation of a preexisting condition red. The Iraq war's excuse was born, the thousand year reich wing era had begun, the new, world order...haha.
No matter what, his reaction was the equivalent to accusing a guilty man of murder and he puts his head down vs. an innocent man being accused is up and protesting his innocence. I am biased, but it's been affected by a very long list of failures, disrespect for law and lies stemming from this god awful presidency.

A cheap act is what the American public would accept. Turns out they were willing to accept cheap lies too. They were also willing to accept a very expensive war that they were warned was not winnable, illegal and immoral. GWB said it was wrong for America to be "Nation Building" Thank Satan for Obama, if only the shithead republicans had listened to him. Wow, how much better off would America be? hmmm.... The hollow claims of the right just dont stand up to scrutiny. I distrust them so much because of the sheer volume and seriousness of their offenses against humanity and nature.

I'd LOVE to hear the explanations from the right regarding Bush's 911 statements but, alas, I fear the same crapola of massive dismissals and brushes off that answer nothing. I cant find anyone on the right defending him on this issue.
If you have eyes, you can see he lies with his face. If you have ears, you can listen to him offend plausibility and credibility. If you can speak, tell us it isnt so without an excuse.

[RockyMt]

Did you ever consider the possibility that no one wants to waste the time trying to explain the obvious to you? You should be able to grasp THAT concept, I'm sure you encounter it on a daily basis........

-Rocky-

'bama lied, his "healthcare" bill died...................

[nero]

gog,
This is getting sad now. Your "Bundy-esque" rants paint the portrait of a seriously disturbed individual . Perhaps therapy could be helpful ?
Seriously man, your last post was a manifesto . Get help.

[Gog]

Hey, at least we're willing to question things(each other as well)... you seem woefully inept in this field cockflea. Either that or blatant, smug lies and cursory, unlikely dismissals are good enough for ya. I call bullshite at the highest level, and your lack of answers very telling, if that makes me a lefty hippy, right on man.
Maybe, if you dont like the questions, you could skip to your answers smartass... You're making a habit of dismissing things that turn out to be mistakes or lies. Your "wins" seem involve diminishment of your fellow earthlings or the slandering of science,history and credibility. A few thugs like you and you could realy putsch yourself on the map.

[Gog]

Originally Posted by nero

gog,
This is getting sad now. Your "Bundy-esque" rants paint the portrait of a seriously disturbed individual . Perhaps therapy could be helpful ?
Seriously man, your last post was a manifesto . Get help.

Oh two(1.5) sentence wonder. Your manifesto is that you voted for Sarah Palin and GWB... thats incredible, considering what sacks of shit they are. You'd do it again too! lol. Even knowing what you know you'd do it again! ahhhh!

The fundamentals of your econo... opps..."philosophy" are basically strong.

[RockyMt]

Put down the pipe gag.............

-Rocky-

[nycstripes]

Its got nothing to do with the pipe Rocky. Gag's just following the instructions of one of the few American's he actually respects. Saul Alinsky.

If you read Alinsky's rules for radicals, some of Gog's posts make sense. He's just here to disrupt and annoy everyone. So ignore the idiot.
Alinsky's Rules for Radicals
Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to be aware of:

RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

[Area 51]

Originally Posted by G8RDuc

First, I'm not associated with him.

Second, none of what you posted diminishes the fact that he spoke the truth when Obama spoke about immigrants and free health care. If it wasn't the truth, why are they NOW trying to make sure that illegal aliens can't abuse the system in the proposed reform package?

You are associated with him because you support his actions. You're in his corner (with a dunce cap and facing the wall ).

I think maybe you're confused. If you recall, Obama said: "none of the legislation that I am proposing" will give free benefits to illegals. What he is proposing is not a complete re-write of our system - it is a tweek. If a Republican wants to add a proposal to the bill that would expressly deny care to illegals let them. In his speech, Obama invited them to work together. We'll see if they do but I'm wondering: Why didn't Republicans expresslly deny care to illegals during the whole time they controlled Congress? During all of that time illegals were getting free care all across this country, with nothing more than lip service from the right. But alas, Republicans wait until NOW to really scream about it? Why do you think that is? Could it be they are opportunistically using the issue as a "wedge"? Could it be their usual cynical way of using hot-button issues to stir up controversy and "energize the base"? Of course it is. It's just more BS from the right (not that the left doesn't have it's own BS). Seriously, I can't take these guys seriously any more.

And Joe Wilson's record leaves no other conclusion than his actions are motivated by racism, not any concerns about health care or America - I'm sure he's not the only one in the Grand good Old boys Party. How can anyone with any sense of morality be associated with such a lowly group?

[nycstripes]

A51 you're insane.

You read through Wilson's wiki resume and skipped past the parts that were meaningful and came away with him being a racist?

FAIL.
The guy yelled "you lie" and wasn't proven to be wrong. I for one am glad he did, he's caused a shit storm of nonsense but the health care bill is getting some serious reviewing in that department now. If it emerges with the illegals getting free benefits...its at their peril over the next election cycle.

How many times have Democrats stopped immigration reforms? Had any of the measures proposed been passed, health care for illegal immigrants would be a moot issue. That's been voted down too. Along with amendment wording prohibiting illegals from getting free health care in this bill.

How many times have we voted to continue paying SSI benefits to illegals?

What Obama is proposing is complete control over 1/6th of the economy. What he's proposing is more that most American's are willing to concede. What Obama is proposing is a 1000 page health grab bill that he hasn't even read.

[Area 51]

Originally Posted by Gog

...but Bush having prior knowledge of airliners being hijacked is pretty obvious. They simply cannot lie their way out of it. The timelines DO NOT support the official statements...period.

Maybe you can explain(for fun, since there are no right wing takers) how Bush could elaborate himself out of a credible alibi by saying there was a monitor outside the classroom or that he thought/said "that was one was a terrible pilot" or the heart attack reference. It would be impossible for him to confuse the two, especially with his very specific references. Nobody thought the second plane was a terrible pilot and nobody saw the first plane hit...right? All that is left is a terrible lie.

He did see the first plane hit, I dont doubt it but, it wasn't on public TV. His lying, stooge faced reaction to the the news "we're under attack" was a blatant liars grin and a deceptive act to feign contemplation of a preexisting condition red.

Gag, you've been reading the wrong books or hanging out in too many Birkenstock-infested coffee shops.

Bush is just a dumb shit who lies to cover his mistakes. You're giving him way too much credit. For the first eight+ months of his term he was walking around with his thumb up his ass. Christ, he even ignored "Bin Laden Preparing to Attack Inside United States" while he was STILL trying to fill his empty cabinet. Katrina, Iraq, what else, he just is a fool, a big, stupid fool.

[Gog]

Originally Posted by Area 51

Gag, you've been reading the wrong books or hanging out in too many Birkenstock-infested coffee shops.
We dont have those round here! It's more like gum boots and hip waders.

Bush is just a dumb shit who lies to cover his mistakes. You're giving him way too much credit. For the first eight+ months of his term he was walking around with his thumb up his ass. Christ, he even ignored "Bin Laden Preparing to Attack Inside United States" while he was STILL trying to fill his empty cabinet. Katrina, Iraq, what else, he just is a fool, a big, stupid fool.

He certainly did ignore it. He actually had specific information that AlQ intended to use airplanes. So, his fake face on 911 is just that...fake. He was the face of fakers. What does it matter? The same shits are lining up hillbilly retards for another round of politcal, humanitarian, legal and moral failures!!! Noooo!

[Baasinator]

Originally Posted by Area 51

If you recall, Obama said: "none of the legislation that I am proposing" will give free benefits to illegals. What he is proposing is not a complete re-write of our system - it is a tweek. If a Republican wants to add a proposal to the bill that would expressly deny care to illegals let them. In his speech, Obama invited them to work together.

In fact, the Republicans did propose an ammendment to the House bill that would require verification of citizenship status, which the Democrats promptly vetoed. I guess that's the bipartisanship he was looking for?

While Obama is technically correct that the House bill does say illegal aliens will not be paid, it also provides no method for checking citizenship status; in fact, you could say his legislation specifically prohibits such a check since the Democrats won't allow it. Is there any better example of trying to have it both ways? Probably, but that doesn't mean you can stand behind Obama and say he was being honest without losing your own credibility!

No matter... as you stated, it's really just more of the same. The laws are already in place to deal with the illegal immigration problem (for the most part). The problem is that there is no enforcement of those laws.

[Gog]

Originally Posted by nycstripes

Its got nothing to do with the pipe Rocky. Gag's just following the instructions of one of the few American's he actually respects. Saul Alinsky.

If you read Alinsky's rules for radicals, some of Gog's posts make sense. He's just here to disrupt and annoy everyone. So ignore the idiot.

RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.

Cant say I'm too familiar with mr. A. You assign so much power to me! wow. I thought these boards (especially the war room)were just anonymous, frivolous pastime places for people with a few extra minutes each day/week. Power, thats laughable. You dont see many Green Party people seeking power... not yet anyhow.
Ridicule, whats not to? You guys talk garbage. You say exactly what you post as an accusation towards me..haha. Go after people? hahah Thats as ridiculous as saying this war room is American.. grow up and drag yourselves into the 21rst century.

I

[Area 51]

Originally Posted by Gog

He certainly did ignore it. He actually had specific information that AlQ intended to use airplanes. So, his fake face on 911 is just that...fake. He was the face of fakers.

Well, that's your opinion, but my opinion is different. I saw in his face the look of an idiot who just realised he'd made the biggest mastake of his life by not listening to Richard Clarke and Bill Clinton, and by ignoring the NIE. His look was, "oh my god, I was warned about this and I did nothing. I was more concerned about cutting taxes for my circle of greedy friends while I should have been protecting the American people. I'll go down in history as the biggest failure ever to enter the Oval Office. Now how can I finagle my way out of this."

That's why he had that lost (coke fried, alcoholic) look on his face. That's why he held that book up side down. He froze in confusion and it took a while to compose himself. Obama would have handled the whole thing differently. It's nice to finally have a President we can be proud of.