__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
What would happen if EVERYONE who is unhappy with the way the govermnent is spending OUR money just didn't file a tax return, EVERYONE. The best way to get someone's attention (well....second best) is with the all mighty dollar, would be fun watchin' 'em squirm.......
-Rocky-
__________________
ROCKYMT
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
If the best stimulus the government can think up is to basically give us back our tax dollars... then why collect it in the first place???
Wait a minute....are YOU getting back what you put in cuz I sure as shit aint......explain please! LOL!
Plus, I'd imagine it's all the ppl who havent put a dime in this nations taxes that are hoping to get a check to spend. It's all about wealth redistribution.
If the best stimulus the government can think up is to basically give us back our tax
dollars... then why collect it in the first place???
Because it creates jobs for a bunch of accountants and government employees and they squeel when anyone threatens to take away their cozy situation.
If no one wants the government to regulate the Internet then why do
we look to them to regulate the economy???
I think you mean tax internet sales. The economy IS regulated, sort of. You need to restate your question.
In bold.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
No, what gets "old" is sending checks to people who don't want to get off their ass and go to work, how can you call it a "tax rebate" when fully 1/3 of the recipients DIDN"T PAY TAXES!!!! I call that WELFARE.........
-Rocky-
__________________
ROCKYMT
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
One thing people usually get wrong about welfare is the usual "hey but Sweden has that and they are getting along quite well!".
The problem is that Sweden doesnt simply have high taxes to provide everybody with, say, free health care.
Back in the '90s a succession of Swedish governments realized their economy was stagnating. Large companies were migrating abroad (Ikea to the Netherlands and Tetrapak to Switzerland for example) and there was real fear that the government may go bankrupt over increasing expenses.
So they took a bold decision: they "freezed" welfare expenses and created a more enterprise-friendly enviroment. They cut corporate taxes, they cut down bureaucracy, they dramatically reduced time and effort needed for young persons to open a new enterprise. They have some of the most generous tax rebates in the world for enterprises investing in new technologies and equipment. Recently they even turned down a proposal to shut down nuclear power plants (which supply over 50% of the country electricity) to ensure factories will still get cheap power in the years to come.
It may not have been painless for welfare-addicts and it may not be the soundest economic policy but at least they tried a different approach from Germany or Italy, which have been frozen in an economic slump for the past thrity years. Yes, Swedes still get free health care (but to a point) but their enterprises at least have a fighting chance on the world market. And the present crisis is at least stimulating some healthy debate on future reform. Swedes at the present are discussing their future while German autogiants are begging for taxpayers' blood and Italian trade unions are airing commercial to promote strikes.
So, yes, they have free health care in Sweden but they also have the brain to understand that they need to fund welfare without chocking the economy.
Please, every time the old marijuana subject comes up there isnt a bigger victim than you, not on this board anyway, so save the moronic remarks for your own household. What truly gets OLD to you, apparently, are facts.
One thing people usually get wrong about welfare is the usual "hey but Sweden has that and they are getting along quite well!".
The problem is that Sweden doesnt simply have high taxes to provide everybody with, say, free health care.
Back in the '90s a succession of Swedish governments realized their economy was stagnating. Large companies were migrating abroad (Ikea to the Netherlands and Tetrapak to Switzerland for example) and there was real fear that the government may go bankrupt over increasing expenses.
So they took a bold decision: they "freezed" welfare expenses and created a more enterprise-friendly enviroment. They cut corporate taxes, they cut down bureaucracy, they dramatically reduced time and effort needed for young persons to open a new enterprise. They have some of the most generous tax rebates in the world for enterprises investing in new technologies and equipment. Recently they even turned down a proposal to shut down nuclear power plants (which supply over 50% of the country electricity) to ensure factories will still get cheap power in the years to come.
It may not have been painless for welfare-addicts and it may not be the soundest economic policy but at least they tried a different approach from Germany or Italy, which have been frozen in an economic slump for the past thrity years. Yes, Swedes still get free health care (but to a point) but their enterprises at least have a fighting chance on the world market. And the present crisis is at least stimulating some healthy debate on future reform. Swedes at the present are discussing their future while German autogiants are begging for taxpayers' blood and Italian trade unions are airing commercial to promote strikes.
So, yes, they have free health care in Sweden but they also have the brain to understand that they need to fund welfare without chocking the economy.
+1
Obscene disparity between rich and poor always leads to extreme events. There is no reason not to take care for your citizens. People who only see black and white, rich and poor will object. They cannot see that social programs must be regulated carefully and truthfully. The social programs in Canada generally work and they give national pride and examples to others.
We dont want slums and castles.
I hate the taxes I pay sometimes yes, my dope dealing neighbour is on welfare however, he is one in a thousand... easy to keep in mind.
That is exactly what some people want. Because it means that wealth is distributed upward. I've been to a few elite golf resorts and in other situations, and I know the people. They are fine and dandy to talk to but their goals are laced with greed - not nearly all, mind you, but some of them live by the rule "he who dies with the most toys wins" - they see it as a competition. It's a weakness of humanity that requires government intervention to avoid the "slums and castles" failure. I know you know this - just had to say it.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
I'd like to get back to the Hope, Change, and Bullshit topic. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Obama has been in office for less than a month. He's already managed to spend more money than we've spent on Iraq and Afghanistan combined. And he did it in a VERY partisan manner, forcing our legislators to vote on this lobbyist-written "stimulus" bill before ANY of them could even read it. (Nevermind the fact that it does nothing to stimulate the economy. What's a trillion dollars between friends?)
I'm just wondering if the Obama supporters are still hoping for that change, or if they're just ignoring this week's events so they can keep talking about how refreshing Obama is? It couldn't be any more obvious that it's business as usual in Washington, and that's exactly what Obama was supposed to change. Where are all the fanatical supporters from three or four months ago? Did they forget all the promises already?
So far, the only difference between Obama and Bush is that Bush had a full cabinet and Bush got Republicans AND Democrats to vote on his bullshit bailout bill. True, Obama hasn't even had a month on the job, but I think it's fair to be critical now that he's already wasted at least a trillion dollars.
IMO, this currect crisis will not hit bottom until house prices form an obvious bottom. Right now no one knows how far they will fall, so no one spends money or buys a house until they have a reasonably good feeling that they will not have lost their shirts before the crisis ends. So to stop people from hunkering down en masse, steps have to be taken to keep people in their homes. The best way to do that is to make it advantageous to pay your mortgage even if upside-down. The "toxic" assets are so toxic anymore if the foreclosure rate is down to 2006 levels.
Imagine a three-year program that would allow time for the banks to stop reeling and conform to historic regulations. Give them time, with serious government oversight, to clean up their balance sheet. Modify bankruptcy laws to where it isn't so easy to walk away from your house.
But the cornerstone of this plan would be three years of a huge tax deduction on personal income tax. Right now 100% of mortgage interest is deductable. What if it was 200% of your entire payment?
There is approximately $11,000B in mortgages out there. If you assume the average 6% mortgage, that means about $66B in payments each month, or $792B per year in payments.
So this is a deduction, meaning people will save on their marginal tax rate. I don't know what the average rate is for mortgagees, 20%? 20% of $792 is $200B in round numbers.
$200B for three years would be lost in revenue to the IRS, $600B in total. Between TARP and the Stimulus we have about 2.5X that already committed.
Family makes $72k/year. So take home after taxes is about $4k/month.
$250k mortgage on a house that originally cost $275k. The mortgage is $1500/month, or 37.5% of take home. Certainly higher than many would feel is appropriate, but not beyond the norm anymore. They have $2500/month for everything else.
Suddenly the house is worth $150k. They consider walking away, which would mean obliterated credit for at least seven years and having to rent during that time. Rent on a house like theirs is $1000/month. They have $3000/month left in this scenario, and no hope of any equity.
Or, they can continue to pay the house off with the new 200% deduction. They would have a huge deduction of $36,000, probably not paying much tax at all. While their payment stays at $1500 ($500/mo more than renting), they will almost certainly get back more than the difference. Their take-home pay in other words, will go up to $4.7k or so.
Spending a trillion on America is called investment, spending a trillion on Iraq is called waste.
Thank you for the weakest reply ever. Fortunately nobody cares what you think about America or Iraq.
Good ideas, sburns. Economic theory is based upon the idea that people respond to incentives. A proper "stimulus" bill would provide incentives for people to make individual decisions that would benefit our economy. If anybody ever gets time to read the lobbyist's bogus "stimulus" bill (you might as well read it, because your Senators and Representatives didn't), they will realize that there is no such incentive built-in. It's a spending bill, not a stimulus bill.
It's politics as usual, but it's kinda unique because the guy at the helm was supposed to change all that. Yawn.
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