Will Obama's election actually harm race relations?
Bear with me. I am talking in the long-term, some years after his Presidency has ended. I'm not going to try to defend everything I write here, I'm not saying it will be like this, or that I want it to be like this, or that each point below is everyone, specifically you.
So before anyone goes off, re-read and make sure you understand the meaning.
As I work through this in my head, it really doesn't matter if Obama does a good job or not. If he suceeds it probably would hasten this situation described below though. This would also not really be Obama's fault either way.
This is not sour grapes, I don't feel strongly enough about McCain to warrant that. I can't really blame black people for voting for Obama nor the outpouring of emotion at his election. That is pride in your people. If you voted as a member of another race because you agreed with his policies or disagreed with McCain, that is also acceptable to me. We may disagree on issues, but that is fair enough and I can accept defeat on the issues. I have said in the past that both were decent men and I could vote on issues rather than voting against a scumbag.
See if you agree with my logic:
1. Obama was in part elected by whites who have what has been called white guilt. "We owe it to the black race, they have suffered so much."
2. The successful election assuaged this guilt with these people. "Now we are all equal, we proved it."
3. To be driven to vote by something as stupid as fabricated white guilt shows that you lack self-awareness of you inner motivations. You probably are rather gullible as well as moved by emotion rather than any rational decision making process. So in the future you don't really know rationally why you do what you do, and coupled with your gullibility will be easy targets for pawns of other groups described below.
4. There certainly exists another group that hates blacks and will never see them as equals. Some of this group is white, and some are other people of color, hispanics for example.
5. The race hustlers (Jackson, Sharpton, et al) are out of business as of 11/4/08. So in four or eight years the "civil rights" generation will be either dead or retired. Younger black people will have had Obama as President, and are not filled with the same level of anger. Basically, the hustler's base evaporated, and restarting the movement will probably be just as tough as its creation in the early 60's. So these "advocates" simply will not be around or have a voice.
6. The other minority groups such as Hispanics will feel that 2016 or later is their time to also have a President. Of course human nature is to tear down your enemy rather than building yourself up, and these minority groups, which are already inclined to dislike blacks, will attack black leaders politically. Ironically this will aid the white racists described in point #4 above. And who will they use to win? Why the people in #3 of course, who by that time will be on to the next group that needs some "justice".
Conclusion?
The opponents to blacks will be energized while the historic arguments over black inequality are now considered moot. Those same empty-headed white idiots that cried in Chicago Tuesday may unwittingly also hurt equality when they enthusiastically let the next minority that "deserves" to be elected through without vetting as with Obama.
So in 20 years, will racism toward blacks be more or less prevalent than it is now?
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
I really dont get a lot of race stuff simmering in my life because I was brought up with values that didn't include racism or fear. My first pottery teacher(I was 15) was a black man from Chicago. He was freaky to look at the first few times but soon, I realized he was really helping be a a grand master potter, he belived in me and he wasnt bad, evil, mean or nasty. He was married to a white woman which, at the time, well you know. He is one of the smartest, most decent men I have ever met.
I have had a black girlfriend, lived in black neighborhoods(Normandie-Pico) and have a wealthy, famous, amazing best friend who "happens to be black".
So you can begin to imagine how ridiculous, unacceptable and banal I find most "race" conversations. You can understand how deeply my hatred of racists has become in this life. You do have some great points though and they are worth reading and thinking about.
Usually, the very people who are the most afraid are the ones who do the most damage. Either to the law, the spirit or the fabric of society... trash IMHO.
Smart is color blind, it couldnt be more obvious after watching the team Obama is putting together. The tiny brained right wingers I see panting and frothing over Obama are small, little men with nary a hope of spiritual fruition, universal acceptance or basic understanding...trash IMHO. They bring more setbacks and failures than ever they mitigate with contribution.
When I encountered racism against me, really, only a coupla times, I felt the pain. truly, the recieving end is a very nasty place to be, something a lame ass majority racist knows so little about.
Obama as president does not mean that race matters are resolved, social inequality is erased or the playing field is evened out. I means the smartest man got the job and we all should thank our higher beings. It also indicates that white America will not control the show again with such privacy and exclusivity. Maybe the next president will be Gonzales, Chong, Mugabe, Ahmed... who knows. Anything but Palin or Jeb Bush, Qualyle, Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity, Coulter, Kristol or ANY of the white, stupid lamers. I can only hope that America continues picking smart, patriotic leaders, regardless of their color, name or heritage.
McCain made a tremendous blunder picking Palin. He made many mistakes and didnt look very presidential, lowered the negative bar, failed to inspire but, I can tell he's not racist. He full of honor, patriotism and he is very funny.
I know its frustrating to American hillbillies that Blacks have the "Black Music Awards". If white Americans threw a white music awards show we would see riots in the streets. Alas, anyone who knows what it takes to reach a point of being allowed, yes allowed, to celebrate one's heritage, then that person knows that we, the whites, have enjoyed centuries of open, accepted, celebrated, privileged and dominant placement of our culture at the apex. We have had first shot at the prizes, rewards, perks and privileges and the rest of the cultures around us have had to slave it, rent it, die do without. Affirmative action was/is good. We all need the best of all races to be in the pool for their contributions and "rounding and balancing" of the cultural machine.
Now we see the equality reaching laudable levels. There are a lot of white people to thank for this. The unsung, white heroes who deferred privilege, accepted their loss of power for equality's sake and made it happen because they saw better ways than the Southern America's 1950s KKK mentality. Bravo to them and to hell with racists. Let em eat yellowcake.
Cool post. Looks like someone read some books on "white privilege". IMVHO, most of America has moved well beyond racism, the conscious kind anyway. The vocal minority still makes it to the headlines, and hey, it keeps you tuned through the commercial breaks. This goes for the "Sharpton" side of racism as well. Some people will always have room in their heart for hate.
I am hopeful, but I am also naive, that what is really going on this time, is that Americans are growing tired of the use of ridicule, fear, and hate to drive their vote. Some of the good things that I also hope come from this:
1) More and more people will not live up thier stereotypes, and will refuse to be classified and divided, which will hopefully help expose the crappy American news media for the poor, biased, nonfactual, sensational sound-byte news "opinion-reporting" that they do.
2) More and more people will chose to "change" themselves and take themselves from the liability side of the civic balance sheet to the asset side.
3) When Obama only marginally succeeds (I cautiously hope for more), we will be again reminded to remember that politicians, like the rest of humanity, follow the bell curve: Most are just politicians, no matter what color, some are independently moral and some are not.
4) More people will maintain their interest in knowing how, why, and on what their tax dollars are being spent,
5) And most importantly (related to #3), we all stop asking and expecting the Fed gov't to solve our cultural and civic problems. The hard truth that no one in campaign season can admit, is that government entities do not solve problems. They treat symptoms after the disease is spread, they defer problems until after election season, and every time a bill is passed, a piece of someone's freedom is removed.
7) Hopefully, the campaign season will be limited to just a few months instead of 2 frigg'n years.
8) I'm loosing interest already
I say all of this, but not to detract from the progress America’s laws have obviously made to eliminate the discrimination the country started with. One of the many great things about America, has been its constant quest for improvement. One of the bad things is congress' departure from thier constitutional responsibilities. If you listened to Palin, you may think that the next assault will be on the open mined intellectuals...it happened in Cambodia.
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I am pretty much on board with that post. Sometimes, I have found, thrashing a racist right winger is an evil, slippery road downhill... without the thrill of being on a bike. For instance, criticizing the Iraq war. It's so hard to converse with a narrow minded wrong right winger without seeming to insult troops or military custom, heritage etc.
There are so many examples but, I agree that America has come a long way. It has been a hopeful election. Barack is going to have to do less with more. If anyone can do it, he has as good a shot as the next guy. I dont trust the right wing at all... yuk. The things I am reading... where is the garbage bin?
Palin is exposed for what she is. A mean spirited, poorly educated, inexperienced, self righteous lamer from hell. I hope Americans elevate themselves to a level that protects them(us) from stupid, dangerous religion. You see, I have just insulted religious people. A real Christian wouldn't be offended though.
One thing that has surprised me. I found less racism directed at me from minorities that I have witnessed coming from whites towards minorities. Oh it happens but, it seems less.
One thing that vexes me... How/why it is that war mongers find ways to justify their constitution being dismantled? Simply mind boggling. Calling for bombings, torture, regime changes while these draft dodgers reek havoc on the motherland's critical, fundamental laws. Cheerleading for people who say it's OK to disobey, disregard and diss the constitution.
Fuggin stupidos...
The foreign enemies they see behind every dune, tree, building. The domestic enemy, they never seem to care what they're up to.
No, I believe that McCain lost because he could not define his message and it changed day to day, plus Obama put out his message and stuck to it. With the number of people loosing their jobs it would be hard to vote for someone that appeared to have the same ideas as the administration that was under power when you lost your job. I believe that it also did not help that when people wanted information they got politics as usual "He is a terrorist, Commie, Socialist, Community organizer"(I liked them bad mouthing him for that). I believe as long as rocky does not pop a cap in his arse (or someone else) I think race relations will improve, now who is next Asians or Latins?????
I don't think it was white guilt as much as it was lack of choice! and that does not have to do with race!
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"Your out of your element Donnie"
Sorry to revive this, Gog. I was on vacation last week.
As you indicated, I generally got it from the minority side more, myself. I'm a mixed up guy like Obama...even more so, though. Strange thing, isn't it? There must be some comfort humans feel when they "think" they can size someone up, based on appearances. Probably has to do with the animal in us that we struggle to civilize ourselves from, and providing some answers to the unknowns in our heads. There's that fear factor again...
The amateur human psychologist in me always simplifies a lot of this human interaction down to our struggle to educate and civilize ourselves out of our animal instincts. Some people also try to use religion for this ends, as well. Anyway, I say all of this gibberish, because I do hope Obama has a successful/average presidency and that an Asian-American is next. Then it will be one more category of unknown we can put away, a fear of the unknown the collective we won't have to worry about, so we can actually spend more energy on productive questions and investigations. And, perhaps people will quit all the Latin-, Asian-, African-, etc-American crap and start talking about constitutional obligations.
For me, I agree McCain lost because his message was a moving target and his message was largely a negative attack one. The tactic worked against Kerry, but people didn't buy it this time. Also, that really isn't who McCain is...so the whole presentation just didn't work for me. Plus, I try to recognize when politicians use fear to contol my thoughts. Palin was REALLY bad at this, but appeared effective on a portion of the electorate, if you can believe pollsters. For me, just evidence of an electorate that lacks capacity for critical thought. But, to be fair, that's what presidential campaigns demonstrate almost every time.
__________________ Stopping threads dead in their tracks.
race only seems to be a big issue here in the US, in Canada it is pretty non existant (from what I have lived), except to those that want to make it an issue. The color of skin is by far the lamest thing that anyone can cling to which ever side of the "race issue" you are standing on...
It is true that whites voted Obama in to office, they are still the majority of the voting block. I highly doubt that anyone that is white voted him in because he was black... they most likely did it because of his overall package, and his skin color was just a neat thing that happened to be history in the making.
people that keep prepetuating race as an issue need to get thier head out of their ass... hopefully the younger generation will be the one to live in a race free world.
people that keep prepetuating race as an issue need to get thier head out of their ass... hopefully the younger generation will be the one to live in a race free world.
here here brother!
__________________ Stopping threads dead in their tracks.
Actually there was a piece on NPR recently(days before the election) that has similar thoughts of uniting the white race against the growing evil of Obama. This was the Nazi party in the central valley in California. Some even said they would vote for Obama to help unite the whites in their hatred for non-aryans. With the amount of comments I have heard about growing watermelons at the white house and drinking kool-aid at government functions, I think there is room for growth for everyone. I don't think it will ever happen without some outside intervention.
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Sorry to revive this, Gog. I was on vacation last week.
As you indicated, I generally got it from the minority side more, myself. I'm a mixed up guy like Obama...even more so, though. Strange thing, isn't it? There must be some comfort humans feel when they "think" they can size someone up, based on appearances. Probably has to do with the animal in us that we struggle to civilize ourselves from, and providing some answers to the unknowns in our heads. There's that fear factor again... Well said.
The amateur human psychologist in me always simplifies a lot of this human interaction down to our struggle to educate and civilize ourselves out of our animal instincts. Some people also try to use religion for this ends, as well. Anyway, I say all of this gibberish, because I do hope Obama has a successful/average presidency and that an Asian-American is next. Then it will be one more category of unknown we can put away, a fear of the unknown the collective we won't have to worry about, so we can actually spend more energy on productive questions and investigations. And, perhaps people will quit all the Latin-, Asian-, African-, etc-American crap and start talking about constitutional obligations. +1
For me, I agree McCain lost because his message was a moving target and his message was largely a negative attack one. The tactic worked against Kerry, but people didn't buy it this time. Also, that really isn't who McCain is...so the whole presentation just didn't work for me. Plus, I try to recognize when politicians use fear to control my thoughts. Palin was REALLY bad at this, but appeared effective on a portion of the electorate, if you can believe pollsters. For me, just evidence of an electorate that lacks capacity for critical thought. But, to be fair, that's what presidential campaigns demonstrate almost every time.
I applaud your open observations. I have found that I become more and more jaded as I research the fallout from racism, sexism, elitism and, in GWB's imbecility. Being patient and understanding is often taught to me be people with way more right to be upset than I.
It's so powerful, this fear and loathing. I remember, years ago, my brother called a roofer to do some work to his house. When the guy got there, he discovered our last name was the same as a hated, rival clan in Scotland over 200 years ago. He promptly said he would not EVER do work for someone with our name and he left.
WOW! Mind blowing how hate is passed on from one generation to the next, along with the painful, justified or silly reasons. I have never forgotten that lesson, people carry hate to match their fear.
I do it with extreme right wingism and religious zealots. I fight it because I am afraid of it and what it does to the collective good. I hate it because I understand the damage it does, the delays, it assures segregation/disparity, I understand the knowledge and wisdom it ignores. I hate it because it's based on lies and defunct psychology and spirituality. Palin is the open face of it. She understands her ambition but not the job, the situation, complications, nuances or the solutions. She's selfish and greedy enough to step up and claim the throne though.
If we reduce the pool of leaders to rich, white guys and goils and their frothing ignophants(my word )... we're all doomed.
I applaud your open observations. I have found that I become more and more jaded as I research the fallout from racism, sexism, elitism and, in GWB's imbecility. Being patient and understanding is often taught to me be people with way more right to be upset than I.
It's so powerful, this fear and loathing. I remember, years ago, my brother called a roofer to do some work to his house. When the guy got there, he discovered our last name was the same as a hated, rival clan in Scotland over 200 years ago. He promptly said he would not EVER do work for someone with our name and he left.
WOW! Mind blowing how hate is passed on from one generation to the next, along with the painful, justified or silly reasons. I have never forgotten that lesson, people carry hate to match their fear.
I do it with extreme right wingism and religious zealots. I fight it because I am afraid of it and what it does to the collective good. I hate it because I understand the damage it does, the delays, it assures segregation/disparity, I understand the knowledge and wisdom it ignores. I hate it because it's based on lies and defunct psychology and spirituality. Palin is the open face of it. She understands her ambition but not the job, the situation, complications, nuances or the solutions. She's selfish and greedy enough to step up and claim the throne though.
If we reduce the pool of leaders to rich, white guys and goils and their frothing ignophants(my word )... we're all doomed.
Please explain to me how "If we reduce the pool of leaders to rich white guys and goils" isn't just as fookin' RACIST as saying "If we only elect elitist black men.........." Your white guilt is showing, but noooo, YOU are MUCH too "enlightened" to fall into that trap.........
-Rocky-
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ROCKYMT
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Please explain to me how "If we reduce the pool of leaders to rich white guys and goils" isn't just as fookin' RACIST as saying "If we only elect elitist black men.........." Your white guilt is showing, but noooo, YOU are MUCH too "enlightened" to fall into that trap.........
-Rocky-
A person of quality is never threaten by another person seeking equality. The people I am referring to are NOT seeking equality. They have been blocking it forever. They want to be segregated and they're dangerous because they break the fundemental laws, make excuses for it and suck at everything. Always masking, blaming or lying about their shortcomings, lack of intelligence or talent. Fuk em.
A person of quality is never threaten by another person seeking equality. The people I am referring to are NOT seeking equality. They have been blocking it forever. They want to be segregated and they're dangerous because they break the fundemental laws, make excuses for it and suck at everything. Always masking, blaming or lying about their shortcomings, lack of intelligence or talent. Fuk em.
A quick question. What party has the only Senator who was also elected the Exalted Cyclops of his local Ku Klux Klan?
(hint: up until health reasons forced him to step down as chairman, he was head of one of the most powerful committee, the Senate Appropriations Committee).
A person of quality is never threaten by another person seeking equality. The people I am referring to are NOT seeking equality. They have been blocking it forever. They want to be segregated and they're dangerous because they break the fundemental laws, make excuses for it and suck at everything. Always masking, blaming or lying about their shortcomings, lack of intelligence or talent. Fuk em.
Hey gag, does living in yer ivory tower require an oxygen mask, or have you acclimated yourself after all these years?
-Rocky-
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ROCKYMT
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Hey gag, does living in yer ivory tower require an oxygen mask, or have you acclimated yourself after all these years?
-Rocky-
-Cocky-
I love elephants. I wouldn't take the ivory tower if it was offered or available for takeover. I prefer my hut by the ocean. I have a feeling you're interested in your own small world and dont want to be messed with so, we both dont want ivory towers. You, on the other hand, will suppport a sac of shit who doesnt care about Africa, elephants, the water the air or the real Rocky Mountains.
You are proud of you negative impact on earth. That makes all your pride that much LESS relevant... to anything.
Will Obama's election actually harm race relations?
+1
)... we're all doomed.
Your white guilt is showing, but noooo, YOU are MUCH too "enlightened" to fall into that trap.........
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