Well if you believe the historians, the Medieval Warm Period allowed more bountiful food harvests and less time spent trying to keep warm. Basically the needs of life were easier to acquire and this left men more time to produce art, architecture, and philosphy. It is not a coincidence that culture flourished in Europe during that time.
BTW, the ocean was warmer then than it is now by about 1 C.
See, there is yet another example of "just don't get it". That's the Euro-centric point of view. They're talking about the northern climes, no? Remember, we live on a globe, not a narrow band of latitude.
Also, yet another example of "just don't get it" is the above comment that Australia has many droughts. Of course they do. But ten years is unusual, not unheard of, but unusual. I wish I'd saved the recent article about Oz. That continent is in peril. Even farmers are now convinced - I'm talking about the ones that haven't commited suicide.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
So, your response is to just post more government sponsored propaganda? Wow... be a good lemming and continue helping The Man push us down the road to serfdom. Good boy!
The Man who pushed us down the road toward surfdom was GW. As times goes by we increasingly do the bidding of the elite class.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
The Man who pushed us down the road toward surfdom was GW. As times goes by we increasingly do the bidding of the elite class.
Ah, falling into the Dem vs. 'Pub trap. Our tyranny keeps going because we have two not-so-different parties that give the voting public the feeling they can "vote the bastards out" when, in reality, they're all bastards looking to expand their wealth and power at our expense. Take the red pill my friend.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
they're all bastards looking to expand their wealth and power at our expense.
To varying degrees you are completely correct. It takes a certain personality to seek office. That's something we should never lose sight of.
By now I think we all know what happened to wealth levels in the Bush era. Bush tipped the balance from leaning in one direction to thoroughly out of whack. That's good for elites but it sucks for America - it's led to revolutions in other countries. That's what happens when your pResident was a drunk and a coward. Well, that doesn't really relate to the topic at hand but I just felt like saying it.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
To varying degrees you are completely correct. It takes a certain personality to seek office. That's something we should never lose sight of.
By now I think we all know what happened to wealth levels in the Bush era. Bush tipped the balance from leaning in one direction to thoroughly out of whack. That's good for elites but it sucks for America - it's led to revolutions in other countries. That's what happens when your pResident was a drunk and a coward. Well, that doesn't really relate to the topic at hand but I just felt like saying it.
And Obama is tilting it even heavier for the elites. We now have a total of 13 trillion committed and over 90% of it is bank bailouts! The remaining 7% or so is all the other government spending (also wasteful transfer of wealth, but I digress). Wake up and realize that they're both out for our money under the guises of warfare (Bush and Obama to a slightly lesser extent) and welfare (Obama and Bush to a slightly lesser extent). Now THAT'S bipartisan!
And Obama is tilting it even heavier for the elites. We now have a total of 13 trillion committed and over 90% of it is bank bailouts! The remaining 7% or so is all the other government spending (also wasteful transfer of wealth, but I digress). Wake up and realize that they're both out for our money under the guises of warfare (Bush and Obama to a slightly lesser extent) and welfare (Obama and Bush to a slightly lesser extent). Now THAT'S bipartisan!
When I get depressed about our current state of affairs, I just remind myself that McCain could have won... and... things would be exactly the same. So then I'm even more depressed. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties when you look at the scope of our problems.
It's going to take some radical action to stop our downward spiral, but I don't think America has the balls for that. Everybody is feeling good because they think they had a choice last November. Either candidate would have given us a bigger government we could not afford. I don't know if our economic policies and our financial situation will be the undoing of America, or if we're simply "too big to fail" in the global scheme of things. But I do believe we're killing this country from the inside out, and nobody gives a shit.
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
When I get depressed about our current state of affairs, I just remind myself that McCain could have won... and... things would be exactly the same. So then I'm even more depressed. There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two parties when you look at the scope of our problems.
It's going to take some radical action to stop our downward spiral, but I don't think America has the balls for that. Everybody is feeling good because they think they had a choice last November. Either candidate would have given us a bigger government we could not afford. I don't know if our economic policies and our financial situation will be the undoing of America, or if we're simply "too big to fail" in the global scheme of things. But I do believe we're killing this country from the inside out, and nobody gives a shit.
I'm all about it, but don't you think we need another candidate who has the same message, but looks more like the prom king (or queen)? Ron Paul gets it, and he's done a great deal to educate a lot of people in this country, but is America ever going to vote for that guy?
His son, Rand, lives here in my hometown. He's running for Senate if Bunning drops out. I talked to him a few weeks ago and he seems ready to go. That's encouraging, but it bothers me that the Republican Party is trying to push Bunning out. He's not afraid to speak his mind. I'd much rather see Paul take McConnell's seat!
Know what's great about progressive, liberal, thinkers? They act upon what they truly believe, for that I give them applause. The problem is that they usually won't listen to reason. If you question their belief system their defense mechanism is to lash back with name calling not debate. If you say you don't agree with them on what they think is the cause for Global Warming they don't attempt to repudiate your statement with facts they just start calling you a backward red-neck or they'll have some comment about the world being round not flat, etc.
All I can say is that you need to educate yourself on these subjects and then make up your own mind. Don't believe the hype. This is a political agenda, not a cause to save the planet.
Fact: In the 70's it was global cooling (Newsweek April, 28th 1975), now it's global warming.
Fact: The globe has cooled 0.74 degrees since Al Gore's release of an "Inconvenient Truth" in 2006 (look it up).
Pop Quiz!
Which of the following cars creates the most greenhouse gas?
1.) Chevy Suburban
2.) Toyota Prius hybrid
3.) Honda FCX (Hydrogen Fuel Cell Powered Car)
Fact: If you answered #3, the car that emits water vapor from it's tail pipe then you answered correctly.
Fact: The #1 contributing gas to the greenhouse effect is WATER VAPOR. (Google it)
Fact: The planet creates 20 times more CO2 than us humans do.
Fact: Anthropogenic CO2 (CO2 created only by humans) makes up 0.28% of the total greenhouse gas accumulation.
Fact: During the first Kyoto Protocol meeting they had to come up with a target greenhouse gas that they could in theory have some control over; water vapor was out of the question (#1 greenhouse gas), methane and ozone were out, so the only gas they could come up with that we as humans create any quantity of was CO2.
Fact that it's all in the packaging:
Your avg. Toyota Prius purchaser believes that he or she is making an environmental statement by buying and driving a Prius hybrid. They believe that they are doing the world a favor by driving a fuel / energy efficient vehicle.
Fact: Throughout it's life cycle a Toyota Prius will have consumed more energy than a Hummer H3.
Toyota Prius $3.25 in energy consumption per mile.
Hummer H2 $1.95 in energy consumption per mile.
(CNW Marketing Research, Inc. Report " Dust to Dust: The Energy Cost of New Vehicles From Concept to Disposal")
Fact: There have been 10 or 11 known Ice Ages in the past, the largest of which covered aprox 1/3 of the planet with ice and snow. The last of which occurred aprox. 10,000 years ago. During each event, at some point, the climate adjusted itself and warmed up enough to end each of the ice ages. This happened without our "Anthropogenic" help.
Fact: In the study of statistics, the more data you have along a time line, the more accurately you can predict future events.
|................................................. ......................................|.|
we're trying to predict what's going to happen in the future with a infinitesimally small sample of data compared to the age of the earth. As in the above dotted line, say that's the age of the planet and we have weather and climate data for only the bracketed period at the very end. How well do you think our tiny sample of data at the very end represents the entire weather and climate change data throughout the Earth's entire history? Do you really think there is enough sample data there to accurately predict what our climate is going to do in the future?
Get educated people, don't be a sheep and follow the crowd because GREEN is the cool thing to do.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we should continue to pollute and screw things up but we need to spend the money were it's going to count most and Global Warming isn't it.
Fact:
The earth creates a naturally occurring substance that radiates it's own heat and can be safely used to create clean electricity.
Uranium.
"Oh no! not that! But then we have to bury it after we use it! And that's waste." uhhh... we dug it up to begin with, it was buried before we even knew it was there; is that considered nuclear waste?
Education can battle fear and lead to a better world.
Sounds like the right wingers have it all figured out yet again.
Anything that is "inconvenient" "complex" or "alarming" is a liberal agenda. The facts are just rammed into, at speed, like our dearly departed Titanic and all their unsinkable, hubris filled champions of mother nature..
After all, when we want to understand extreme complexities and diversity, who better to turn to than the right wing? Haha. What disaster! Sweeping science, facts and numbers under the rug so you might instate simpletons or "proper" right wingers like Palin or Bush.
Here's a great example for you. Evolution. No matter how clear it becomes that we descended from primates and left the trees and that they, themselves, evolved from lesser, complicated life forms, the right wing still touts Middle Eastern fairy tales to explain our existence and declare out superiority. What the hell are logical, reasonable, educated people to do with this? Debate it? Ha! ALL we can do is laugh at you. Your reasoning is a flawed, dangerous joke. How it is you seem to get half the international debate time I'll never understand.
You see, all of us can learn new things and we can admit to being wrong when we knew so little and claimed so much. The "stay the course" kind of philosophy has been proven to be a complete disaster, ecologically, economically and spiritually. Yet, the "shoot the wolves" crowd is confident that we understand the Arctic and the ecology and the way the TOTAL melt off will affect us.
Here's the problem, they sound exactly like the unsinkable fools who promised a quick end to Iraq or that the levees were fine or that the money should be deregulated or there's no connection between cigarettes and cancer. After a while, you must admit, it is glaring and obvious that these people haven't a clue what they're talking about.
dus10r, you think nuclear energy is fine before you even see any half effort for something less dangerous and complicated? Typical, right wing approach, mock those who question the established method of business. Man, too hard to explain.
Nobody can argue that we have made many mistakes, misjudgments and misconceptions... on all side of political thinking. Nobody can argue that earth has many complicated ways of warming and cooling. Nobody can logically argue against these facts. However, when you denude the earth of it's trees, dig up and burn the trees that have turned to oil and pump unregulated toxins and carbon into the air then, claim that concern is for "liberal" or "lefties".... haha as I said earlier... that is the saddest joke I've ever heard.
Let me give you guys a clue...
God is for dummies. The Earth is our ONLY shot at the future. It is not a rubbish tin for right wing joke offs who claim they know more than mankind's scientific community or that they talk to Jesus and know God's will... enough. "Jesus said to me that the economy is more important that the ecology"! hehe. Time to keep your foolish pride to yourselves. Get a grip, take stock of the truth and stop with your smug, lame ass excuses and explanations of things you know so very little about... thank you for your interest in this thread.
Nero, classic dude, sooo smug. What's that ahead Nero? Cant be an iceberg can it? No, they're all gone so... full steam ahead.
I find it funny that you point at the bible versus evolution. The actual debate is Intelligent Design versus Evolution and why people, such as yourself, can't seem to grasp the concept of combining the two ideas. After all, where did all the matter come from? And good try on changing subjects.
Shouldn't this subject be changed to Climate Change? That's what people in your boat have changed it to, since the climate has actually gotten cooler.
You talk about the extremists who claim to talk to God or Jesus, yet you fail to talk about the extremists on your side of the argument, like Al Gore, who make up "facts" to support their case. Good job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gog
Here's a great example for you. Evolution. No matter how clear it becomes that we descended from primates and left the trees and that they, themselves, evolved from lesser, complicated life forms...
God is for dummies. The Earth is our ONLY shot at the future. It is not a rubbish tin for right wing joke offs who claim they know more than mankind's scientific community or that they talk to Jesus and know God's will... enough. "Jesus said to me that the economy is more important that the ecology"! hehe. Time to keep your foolish pride to yourselves. Get a grip, take stock of the truth and stop with your smug, lame ass excuses and explanations of things you know so very little about... thank you for your interest in this thread.
Nero, classic dude, sooo smug. What's that ahead Nero? Cant be an iceberg can it? No, they're all gone so... full steam ahead.
You'd have a better chance at discussing Israel's right to exist with the Ayatollah, than to "debate" the flawed "global warming" argument with Gag.....Gotta hand it to him though, he makes Larry and his V4's sound meek in comparason.
-Rocky-
__________________
ROCKYMT
Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
You'd have a better chance at discussing Israel's right to exist with the Ayatollah, than to "debate" the flawed "global warming" argument with Gag.....Gotta hand it to him though, he makes Larry and his V4's sound meek in comparason.
I find it funny that you point at the bible versus evolution. The actual debate is Intelligent Design versus Evolution and why people, such as yourself, can't seem to grasp the concept of combining the two ideas. After all, where did all the matter come from? And good try on changing subjects. It was an example. a parallel, an analogy. If you want to diverge into evolution without understanding the reference to stupid people promoting intelligent design go ahead, back up. Intelligent design is a sad response, and a lame replacement of facts for fantasy. The point(again) is that the same people claim to understand the eco systems of earth!!!!
My point was to remind you that the same stupid people promoting intelligent design are mocking the ecology and nature. Shouldn't this subject be changed to Climate Change? That's what people in your boat have changed it to, since the climate has actually gotten cooler.
Try to understand this(for once and for all) Global Warming is part of climate change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If melting icebergs dont rally your concerns and stimulate your intelligent curiosity, you have little to offer the debate. If you feel cool this summer and that makes you content for the future, you're not too forward thinking. If you politicize science you're a bigger fool than I could ever describe.
You talk about the extremists who claim to talk to God or Jesus, yet you fail to talk about the extremists on your side of the argument, like Al Gore, who make up "facts" to support their case. Good job.
Listen:
Al Gore is a man. He's not the "God" you people seem to think he is. Not even lefties give him that status. It just so happens that he is smarter than all of you guys here put together and he is on to something NOT EVER mentioned by right wingers until AL spoke out. It wasnt in their lexicon, like the "internets" never were.
It wasnt in the comprehension of right wing functioning. It's obvious he loves his country, did hid duty, research and is very fond of earth. It has been noted by the world's smartest people that his efforts eclipse any contribution made by any right wing ding a ling... ever. Yet the ding a lings hate him and argue foolish bullshit just to refute what leaves his lips. The parade of discredited, imbecillic morons that represent right wing scientific stances show all of us they cannot run a pet store let alone a planet.
Doesnt seem to matter to them how many facts are against them. So, he gets a few details wrong and that is reason enough for the right wing moron movement to rejoice in his failings as a human being. Mock his achievements, dismiss his efforts. Just remember, 'stay the course' is a lie inside an ignorant notion. Bush proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt. think right wingers will learn from it?... Ask Sarah Palin.
So, it's a nice, cool, breezy day out. Al Gore is a liar...lol.
Hi Gog. The funniest thing is that the Wingnuts and the slow-thinkers are all happy-clapping that "Global warming am over and teh Liberals was LIARS and Gore am an idiot..." yet they haven't even thought of where the billions of tons of cold water from the disappearing Pole has gone. Maybe they think the Polar Bears drank it ?
HEELLLOOO, cold water sinks into the deep ocean currents and the Thermohaline circulation (that's not moist, warm breath, BTW...) brings it to a nation near you.
The rest of the cold moisture from the disappearing Arctic evaporates into the air, where a stunning new science discovery called "What goes up must come down" is baffling Deniers the globe over.
"It am cold, so Gore am wrong, 'cos it am Summer."
example of "just don't get it" is the above comment that Australia has many droughts. Of course they do. But ten years is unusual, not unheard of, but unusual. I wish I'd saved the recent article about Oz. That continent is in peril. Even farmers are now convinced - I'm talking about the ones that haven't commited suicide.
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