G8RDuc- don't waste your time with Gog or LeKiwi or 247 or the others who consistently belittle, name call, spew trash and slam those who disagree with their interpretation of reality.
Whenever you read a reply, and it goes on and on and on about neocons and WW3 and fearorists and big belching polluters and New World Order and right-wing this or that... just skip it. They've been here a long time, and some other posters give them attention. Big mistake. If you pay attention long enough to a screaming maniac, that maniac will realize he has an audience, and the screaming will get louder and louder. Look at this thread from the beginning and you'll see what I mean. They get empowered when they realize someone is listening to them, and that empowerment encourages them to continue spewing their venom.
Real debaters stay on-topic and only attack positions. Emotion has no place in a rational discussion. The posters I listed above seem to believe they can SCREAM their way to success. Doesn't work that way.
Yes, and if you're a good puppy you can join the yay sayers and rapture your way to heaven with a silly, insignificant, minor detail like WW3 or global meltdown... woof wooof
What I find pathetic is the 40 some odd pages of name calling.
Most of us did too but sometimes they suck you down to their level............hell look at you, it only took you 19 posts to call one of the pathetic foreigners out already.
My biggest problem with MMGW is what you already mentioned some regions around the world have been warmer but others cooler. Ths whole subject has become some crazy that you dont know what to believe cuz they have excuses coming from every angle to debate the warming or cooling trends in any specific area. There is no winning against these ppl who are diehard MMGWing worshippers.
Ive always said that it seems to me more like nature taking its course, like evrything else in life we'll have peaks n valleys in weather. Should we do our verybest to preserve mother earth best we can?!?!? YES, should we go broke trying.........NO. Not on my dime anyway. The biggest problem with these liberals is they just wanna start taxing and spending without having ANY real plan (that makes sense) worked out.
Gog,
I'm not bigdog, I haven't done anything to you.
You goddang right you ain't me, G8RDuc, sonny. Nor will you ever be like me, son. That is because unlike you, I'm a man, son and NOT some sniveling, weasel pussy, like you.
Get a grip on reality, and anyone who thinks Le Clown is "even keel" is a moron and an idiot.
And another thing, don't ever say my name in vein, son...you understand me.
Now run along and kiss your mommy goodnight.
BTW.. you have anything else you wanna share with me, use the message function...hero
This is kind of the problem with this topic, G8RDuc. It get's emotive real fast.
Dan, maybe you could do a quick whip back through the post's I've made here and try to pull out one single example of me going off half-cocked. I rant a bit in provocation in other threads concerning the "war to create terror", but not in here. Here we talk about the fact that the planet is heating up, the weather is changing, and we are largely responsable by our irresponsability for enhancing a natural cycle to the point where it has become potentially life threatening, even to the point of the cockroaches becoming extinct. And that is bad news whichever way you look at it.
I like graphs, too. Dan's ones always seem to come from an associated statistics professor, or some guy's in the Mexican desert, or people like Steve Milloy and "Junk Science" lobby groups, but don't let that put you off. Balance is vital for understanding the issues, even when your natural instinct is going "Hey, whats up with the weather, and why are these guy's going "nothing we can do can change it", when I know that cutting down pollution almost eradicated air pollution and smog in some big cities... ?"
I can't get the graph to come up all by it's self , but here is the source that a very interesting graph comes from.
Wikipedia has a massive range of information on the subject, all with easily verifiable links, and also offers a broad cross-spectrum of differing POV, even from people who Dan trumpets as being the "only serious source..."
XFBO, try using the link and reading it a bit, then thinking about it, and commenting.
You're right, too, Dan, I do get emotional about certain topics, I can't help that, that's who I am. I respond to provocation by stuff which I know is blatently biased or simply wrong. When it's Bigdog I go a bit OTT, but when you look at the tripe that he slops up, that's understandable..
But I'm also far from infallable, and I'm happy being called out. As I said in one of my earliest posts in the topic, I didn't realise how little I knew about what was going on with the climate, nor just how serious it was, nor just to what extent the Deniers would go to to close their eyes as they rush downhill into a forest, while the more alert people are trying to find ways to dodge the first trees and work out how to get the brakes working....
Call me out on stuff where I've ever questioned hard scientific fact or viable theory.
Most of us did too but sometimes they suck you down to their level............hell look at you, it only took you 19 posts to call one of the pathetic foreigners out already.
My biggest problem with MMGW is what you already mentioned some regions around the world have been warmer but others cooler. Ths whole subject has become some crazy that you dont know what to believe cuz they have excuses coming from every angle to debate the warming or cooling trends in any specific area. There is no winning against these ppl who are diehard MMGWing worshippers.
Ive always said that it seems to me more like nature taking its course, like evrything else in life we'll have peaks n valleys in weather. Should we do our verybest to preserve mother earth best we can?!?!? YES, should we go broke trying.........NO. Not on my dime anyway. The biggest problem with these liberals is they just wanna start taxing and spending without having ANY real plan (that makes sense) worked out.
This would be the ramblings of a complete idiot. No, wait, a completely selfish idiot.
Suck you down to their level = Down from XFBO's level of shooting people in the back.
Shooting people before they get to court. Executions, because "we do NOT make mistakes". How can pro lifers make mistakes? Damn liberals causing such a great fall from such a loft perch.
Calling someone out on an internet BB is not within yourself, it's the liberals fault! lol. YOU didn't do anything, you were "sucked" down to a lower lever by a devil liberal. If it wasn't for that evil liberal you would be perfect.
XFBO's concept of nature = peaks and valleys, warmer and cooler, it's indestructible. If it's not indestructible, like the New Orleans levees, dont spend money on it. If there's a global meltdown XFBO will still have the dime he saved from his non reaction to the warnings. Great, sounds like someone has it completely(smugly) figured out.!
Ya taxing and spending = a liberal evil. "Good thing I fawn over a president who has a history of being good with money." When you cant keep track of track records you have nothing to fear but liberals who keep track. LOOK, if someone NEVER tells a lie and NEVER makes a mistake, why bother tracking a record?
Good thing billions aren't wasted with nary a head turn or barely an inquiry. But hey, money for global warming study? Thats like funding fairy tales or myths! If you allocate money for study that mean you acknowledge it's a possibility. You dont want to suffer the same fate as the tobacco industry do you? Look at the money wasted denying that!
Child healthcare = This is America, our citizens are never sick, but if they do get sick there's lots free medical care available if they'll just get off their lazy, drug addicted asses and leave their mansions for an hour or two.
Jesus must have really instilled his love of humanity into his flock. He'd be so proud of the people who call out for bombs and industry, executions and lawlessness. Wow, give yourselves a nice, big pat on the shoulder, Jesus loves you.
You goddang right you ain't me, G8RDuc, sonny. Nor will you ever be like me, son. That is because unlike you, I'm a man, son and NOT some sniveling, weasel pussy, like you.
Get a grip on reality, and anyone who thinks Le Clown is "even keel" is a moron and an idiot.
And another thing, don't ever say my name in vein, son...you understand me.
Now run along and kiss your mommy goodnight.
BTW.. you have anything else you wanna share with me, use the message function...hero
Seems the biggest problem I see all the time, of course, not limited to this board or this topic, is the use of "evidence" that is skewed to one side and that is all that is presented. Needless to say, more of it is probably related to the fact that there are no true bipartisan websites or resources, but it's interesting to note that most of the links here are extreme one way or another. Either way, I think I'll just leave this topic to those that like to fight amongst each other without actually learning anything.
Kiwi, Dan, XFBO, thank you for the conversation. Keep the rubber down and in some cases keep the rubber on.
It's a shame you're bowing out so fast, G8RDuc, but understandable regarding the constructive (not..) welcome.
It's a shame, because it's an issue which will affect every single one of us in every single corner of the Planet in the very near future.
Almost all of the sources I use are peer reviewed and scientifically valid. Why would I want to bullshit ?
Dan, and probably XFBO will be quick to point out that I'm anti-capitalist, and that GW is all a liberal plot to destroy capitalism, which is preposterous bullshit. Especially as I, and most of the others here, are not anti-capitalist, only anti-idiot.
We do think that prevention is better than cure. Knowing that there is a snake in the grass, what type of snake and whether there is a serum for it's venom in our pack, then making sure we try to avoid stepping on it's tail just strikes me as being good common sense, rather than blundering on, eyes closed against the glare of reality, cocksure that the thickness of our boots will save us from any menace, and "pah !" snakes are just pissy little reptiles, they can't even read "The Weekly Standard" so why should we fear them....
I don't want global climate change to be an issue in my life, because they'll take away my racing motorcycles and turn my race tracks into windmill farms, but I'm also not selfish enough to deny that it's a real problem, and to lend my voice to the debate. If I can contribute anything constructive, that's what I'll try to do.
Dan, and probably XFBO will be quick to point out that I'm anti-capitalist, and that GW is all a liberal plot to destroy capitalism, which is preposterous bullshit.
Changes that we make to thwart GW are an opportunity. The notion that someone is out to destroy capitalism or that the costs will ruin the economy is laughable and complete idiotic bullshit. Where is your faith in human engenuity denyers? I remember hearing the same nonsense when we made the move to clean up car emmisions, or when we made the move to phase out CCF's in aerosols (or whatever it's called). "Oh, you can't do that, it will ruin the economy", they said. I work in agriculture and we used to use a lot of methal bromide to fumigate soil. Use of methal bromide is all but gone now because it depletes atmoshperic ozone. And almost no one has even noticed. But man oh man, you should have heard the complaining when the idea was floated. Farmers faught it tooth and nail for decades - it was like the end of the world was coming. But we found alternatives. All the moaning was nothing but an expression of people's fear of change. The same thing is going on with people now who fight the green revolution and any steps to mitigate greenhouse gasses. They just don't want to deviate from their own little cozy way of doing things. Scare tactics and threats of doom actually are eminating from the denyers, not the MMGW people. The MMGW people are backed up by vast amounts of solid science, unlike the short-lived coming ice age notion of the 1970's. We can make a killing off of the opporunities that this change provides if we only embrace it and takle it like we did car emmisions, etc. The future is now; quit living in the past.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
Changes that we make to thwart GW are an opportunity. The future is now; quit living in the past.
They dont say a word or blink when their President threatens a nuclear strike against Russia and Iran but squawk squawk when it comes to adapting to environmental conditions.
They dont say a word or blink when their President threatens a nuclear strike against Russia and Iran but squawk squawk when it comes to adapting to environmental conditions.
If it weren't for progressives saving their asses they would fall victim to evolution.
__________________ "...let us not ignore the truth among ourselves, that we are the aggressors and they defend themselves. The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down."
David Ben-Gurion (the father of Israel) "When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and holding a cross." Sinclair Lewis I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.
He's actually a celebrity, the guy who used to play Cliff Clavin on Cheers.
Now he hangs out on the internet all day long while wearing his old Postal Service uniform and pretending to be a tough guy, and a military veteran.
Kind of sad actually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog
You goddang right you ain't me, G8RDuc, sonny. Nor will you ever be like me, son. That is because unlike you, I'm a man, son and NOT some sniveling, weasel pussy, like you.
Get a grip on reality, and anyone who thinks Le Clown is "even keel" is a moron and an idiot.
And another thing, don't ever say my name in vein, son...you understand me.
Now run along and kiss your mommy goodnight.
BTW.. you have anything else you wanna share with me, use the message function...hero
Food prices have risen as more land is used to produce biofuels
A United Nations expert has condemned the growing use of crops to produce biofuels as a replacement for petrol as a crime against humanity.
The UN special rapporteur on the right to food, Jean Ziegler, said he feared biofuels would bring more hunger.
The growth in the production of biofuels has helped to push the price of some crops to record levels.
Mr Ziegler's remarks, made at the UN headquarters in New York, are clearly designed to grab attention.
He complained of an ill-conceived dash to convert foodstuffs such as maize and sugar into fuel, which created a recipe for disaster.
Food price rises
It was, he said, a crime against humanity to divert arable land to the production of crops which are then burned."
Within that time, according to Mr Ziegler, technological advances would enable the use of agricultural waste, such as corn cobs and banana leaves, rather than crops themselves to produce fuel.
The growth in the production of biofuels has been driven, in part, by the desire to find less environmentally-damaging alternatives to oil.
The United States is also keen to reduce its reliance on oil imported from politically unstable regions.
But the trend has contributed to a sharp rise in food prices as farmers, particularly in the US, switch production from wheat and soya to corn, which is then turned into ethanol.
Mr Ziegler is not alone in warning of the problem.
The IMF last week voiced concern that the increasing global reliance on grain as a source of fuel could have serious implications for the world's poor.
...
The neocons are probably still angry about the "The right to food" part.
"Why do they[the poor] need food if we can just burn it"?
Not content with its dubious fight over global warming, the United Nations now says humanity itself is causing irreversible environmental damage. Haven't we heard this kind of thing before?
Indeed, we have. In 1798, a country parson named Thomas Malthus published a book in which he calculated that human populations were growing faster than the world's ability to feed them. It wouldn't be long, he reasoned, before the world would be afflicted with " sickly seasons, epidemics, pestilence, and plague." In short: mass death.
He was, of course, spectacularly wrong.
True, population did increase, geometrically even. But it didn't lead to misery. Far from it. Today, we are wealthier, healthier, better-housed, better educated than ever — thanks not to U.N. bureaucrats, but to our ability as free men and women to think clearly about problems, and solve them.
Yet, according to the U.N.'s new "Geo-4 Report," our environmental problems, a result of unchecked population growth and wealth, are so extensive that, as the London Times put it, "they must be treated as a top priority if they are to be solved."
Check your wallets and your freedom at the door. For this is the old line used by environmental extremists of all types: Things are so bad we can no longer put off what must be done. Of course, you'll have to give up some income and freedom — and maybe even your right to bear children — but, hey, the environment's at stake.
Excuse us, but this seems like another attempt to foist centralized, global control over the prosperous, dynamic and fast-growing economies of the world — an attempt to shake us down and radically alter Western lifestyles, to get us out of our deluxe cars and designer clothes and onto bicycles and into bearskins.
It's a bad idea that just won't go away. In the 1960s, biology professor Paul Ehrlich revived Malthus with his best-selling "The Population Bomb." "In the 1970s," he warned, "the world will undergo famines — hundreds of million of people are going to starve." His solution: Immediate population control, mandated by law.
Ehrlich was followed by the Club of Rome's "Limits To Growth," and by President Carter's equally alarmist "Global 2000" report. They, too, were utterly wrong. Yet, they influenced a whole generation of green activists who came to think of humanity as a disease — a "cancer," in Ehrlich's word — that had to be cut out.
Unfortunately for them, far from despoiling the world and leading lives that are "nasty, brutish and short," we're thriving. As the late economist Julian Simon noted, people are the ultimate resource. More people means more brains — more problem-solvers for humanity's ills. Population isn't a curse; it's an opportunity.
This is why the Malthusian view of the world is so wrong. And why Simon and his followers are right to say not only is the world not getting worse, but by virtually any measure it's getting better.
In "The Improving State of the World," for instance, scientist Indur Goklany notes that worldwide life expectancies have more than doubled — from 31 years to 67 — in just the past century. In poor countries, the share suffering from chronic hunger plunged from 37% in 1970 to 17% in 2001, even as population soared 83%.
Even the definition of "poor" has changed, because average annual incomes in poor countries have more than tripled in real terms since 1950. Just since 1981, the share of the world's population living in poverty has been halved, from 40% to 20%.
Yes, we have social and environmental problems. But the alarmists would have us don straitjackets and then force-feed us solutions under the rubric of "sustainable growth" — a kind of friendly fascism that leads to greater poverty and loss of liberty.
We prefer what's worked before: free markets, free minds and free people, working democratically under the rule of law.
Says All Passengers Might Have been Saved but for Captain Lord's Indifference.
TITANIC COMMITTEE'S REPORT.
That the Titanic was rushing at a speed of 24˝ miles an hour when she crashed into the iceberg.
That of 2223 persons aboard, only 32 per cent. were saved.
That all might have been saved but for "negligent indifference" of the steamship Californian to the Titanic's distress signals.
That those rescued comprised: Sixty per cent. of the first-class passengers, 42 per cent. of second-class, 25 per cent. of third-class and 24 per cent. of the crew.
That four warnings of "ice ahead" were ignored by the Titanic's officers.
That the Titanic struck at 10.13 P.M. on Sunday, April 14, and sank at 12.47 A.M. (New York time) on April 15.
That eight vessels were near at time of the collision with the iceberg and only the Carpathia went to the assistance of the Titanic.
That there was no panic, but a "short" crew, poorly drilled and poorly commanded, only enough men to partially man the twenty lifeboats.
Teeming with eloquence, combining praise for heroism and scathing rebuke for negligence and cowardice in the most appalling marine tragedy of history, was the final and official requiem on May 28 in the Senate for the victims of the Titanic. Senator Smith, of Michigan, chairman of the Senate Investigating Committee, summed up his views of the evidence developed.
That every soul aboard the giant liner might have been saved but for the indifference, inattention and almost criminal neglect of Captain Stanley Lord and the other officers of the Californian was the most startling charge Smith bitterly made.
"Needless sacrifice" of at least five hundred lives because the "strangely insufficient number of life boats" were not filled was also charged.
"Obsolete and antiquated shipping laws" and "laxity of regulation and hasty inspection" by the British Board of Trade were denounced by Smith. As a contributory cause he named the indifference of Captain Smith, of the Titanic, for ignoring ice warnings and forcing the Titanic full speed through the northern waters. That Captain Smith had expiated his offense by a heroic death was Smith's tribute to the dead commander.
LACK OF DISCIPLINE ARRAIGNED.
Lack of discipline among the crew and cowardice of some of its members indicated after the crash was scathingly arraigned. To the two Titanic wireless operators — Phillips and Bride—the speaker paid a glowing tribute. He lauded Captain Rostrom, of the rescue ship, Carpathia.
In eloquent terms the chairman, Senator Smith, depicted the folly of sending out the greatest ship afloat without sufficiently testing a strange crew and with no drills or discipline. The Titanic, he said, was following the proper course, although one known to be dangerous at that season, but the speed was gradually and continually increased until the maximum was the death-blow.
Rebuke for those in half-filled lifeboats who "stood by" and refused aid to struggling, drowning swimmers until "all the noise had ceased" was voiced.
"Upon that broken hull," the Senator concluded, "new vows were taken, new fealty expressed, old love renewed, and those who had been devoted in life went proudly and defiantly on the last life pilgrimage together. In such a heritage we must feel ourselves more intimately related to the sea than ever before, and henceforth it will send back to us on its rising tide the cheerful salutations from those we have lost.
"'At 10 o'clock on that fateful Sunday evening this latest maritime creation was cutting its first pathway through the North Atlantic Ocean with scarcely a ripple to retard its progress.
"From the builders' hands she was plunged straightway to her fate and christening salvos acclaimed at once her birth and death. Builders of renown had launched her on the billows with confident assurance of her strength, while every port rang with praise for their achievement; shipbuilding to them was both a science and a religion; parent ships and sister ships had easily withstood the waves, while the mark of their hammer was all that was needed to give assurance of the high quality of the work.
"In the construction of the Titanic no limit of cost circumscribed their endeavor, and when this vessel took its place at the head of the line every modern improvement in shipbuilding was supposed to have been realized; so confident were they that both owner and builder were eager to go upon the trial trip; no sufficient tests were made of boilers or bulkheads or gearing or equipment, and no lifesaving or signal devices were reviewed; officers and crew were strangers to one another and passengers to both.
PASSENGERS AND CREW STUPEFIED.
"Neither was familiar with the vessel or its implements or tools; no drill or station practice or helpful discipline disturbed the tranquility of that voyage, and when the crisis came a state of absolute unpreparedness stupefied both passengers and crew and, in their despair, the ship went down, carrying as needless a sacrifice of noble women and brave men as ever clustered about the judgment seat in any single moment of passing time.
"We shall leave to the honest judgment of England its painstaking chastisement of the British Board of Trade, to whose laxity of regulation and hasty inspection the world is largely indebted for this awful fatality. Of contributing causes there were very many. In the face of warning signals, speed was increased and messages of danger seemed to stimulate her to action rather than to persuade her to fear.
"Captain Smith knew the sea and his clear eye and steady hand had often guided his ship through dangerous paths. For forty years storms sought in vain to vex him or menace his craft. But once before in all his honorable career was his pride humbled or his vessel maimed. Each new advancing type of ship built by his company was handed over to him as a reward for faithful service and as an evidence of confidence in his skill.
"Strong of limb, intent of purpose, pure in character, dauntless as a sailor should be, he walked the deck of this majestic structure as master of her keel, titanic though she was. His indifference to danger was one of the direct and contributing causes of this unnecessary tragedy, while his own willingness to die was the expiating evidence of his fitness to live.
Just like the dingalings, they tried to blame someone else. Shifting blame from an idiot Captain(Bush) to others...liberals! ha!
Laugh at the warning you fools, The Uss Constitution, ignoring all warnings, because of their 'unsinkability', steaming along into the nuclear ice fields and the shrinking canopy that happens to be our ONLY life support. After the collision we can expect aKatrina like response, half filled lifeboats, abandonment of positions, suicides and rampant discrimination against steerage.
Without a doubt, the right wingers will be dressed as women and acting like children. Oh, the irony, it's simply too hard to bear. The neocons skulking into lifeboats as their ship takes it's cargo of fools to the bottom.
I wonder if the bearers of the all important ice field news were laughed off the bridge with charts and graphs of the Titanic's unsinkable design...
Haven't we heard this before? Like umm err the previous post?
Last week, CNN delayed for a few hours the scheduled Tuesday night broadcast debut of its much-hyped documentary series "Planet in Peril" due to live coverage of the tragic wildfires that have displaced more than 500,000 people in Southern California. But that didn't keep CNN "golden boy" reporter Anderson Cooper from using the tragedy to tout the program he starred in as much as he could.
Cooper constantly claimed during the week that the fires provided further confirmation of the documentary's prediction of an eco-catastrophe. Cooper said that higher temperature due to global warming may have been a factor. It was a "timely documentary," Cooper said last Tuesday on CNN's "Larry King Live", because "California certainly seems to be in peril."
But ironically, much of the reason California is in peril is due not to climate change, but to the very environmental policies championed by Cooper's documentary and our new Nobel laureate, Al Gore. While, in its statement praising Gore, the Nobel Committee said that global warming may "threaten the living conditions of much of mankind," the current wildfires show that the more immediate threat to man comes from the champions of the gnatcatcher, kangaroo rat, and the Delhi Sands Flower-Loving fly.
Environmental mandates have made fire safety for humans take a back seat to the well-being of the aforementioned California creatures, as well as that of every bug and rat lucky enough to be listed as an "endangered species" under federal and state law. For over a decade, environmentalists have hamstrung Californians in their efforts to clear the dry brush that is providing the fuel for this massive fire. If any of these endangered or even "threatened" species are found in shrubs or bushes on public or private property, it becomes very difficult to give this vegetation even the slightest haircut. This is true even if city codes require firebreaks to be built.
An example of the legal strait jacket that homewoners faced in the areas hit by the fires is the "brush management guide" on the City of San Diego web site. The confusing instructions state that vegetation within 100 feet of homes in canyon areas "must be thinned and pruned regularly." But then, the same sentence goes on to state that this must be achieved "without harming native plants, soil or habitats."
Then in fine print at the bottom of the page, the real kicker comes in:
"Brush management is not allowed in coastal sage scrub during the California gnatcatcher nesting season, from March 1st through August 15th. This small bird only lives in coastal sage scrub and is listed as a threatened species by the federal government. Any harm to this bird could result in fines and penalties."
Coastal sage scrub is a low plant ubiquitous near coastal California that grows like a weed under almost any condition. And since gnatcatcher nesting season lasts almost six months, there could be much buildup of sage scrub that becomes hard for homeowners to control. Especially since the maintenance rules severely restrict the use of mechanical brush-clearing devices even when gnat nesting season is over.
The tragedy is that this shows that not much has changed even after previous warnings from experts that environmental rules were on a collision course with fire safety in California and many other places, because they prevented the removal of "excess fuel" for fires from dense stands of trees and vegetation. Southern California homes were lost in 1993 after the federal Fish and Wildlife Service told homeowners that mechanical clearing of brush would likely violate the Endangered Species Act. The reason: it could alter the habitat of a newly-listed endangered species called the Stephens kangaroo rat.
Some exemptions were made, and clarifications were issued, but landowners still face the lingering risk that the simple act of building a firebreak can send them down the river if an endangered species is anywhere near their property. California's Blue Ribbon Fire Commission, which had been created after wildfires in 2003 by then-Governor Gray Davis and whose members included Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., as well as state legislators of both parties, concluded that "habitat preservation and environmental protection have often conflicted with sound fire safe planning."
But did this bipartisan finding or any of the documented harms to fire safety from environmental rules make it into CNN's exploration of possible causes of the current fires? Not a gnatcatcher's chance. Instead, climate "expert" Cooper told viewers Wednesday night that the wildfires were "symptoms of a planet in peril. Fire, drought, deforestation; it's all connected."
Yet the data show that temperature for areas hit by the fire was well within average ranges, and came nowhere near the record highs. On Monday the 23rd, for instance the high temperature in Escondido was 84 degrees, and the high in Santa Ana was 87 degrees. According to temperature statistics from the National Weather Service, the mean high in both cities for that date is 79 degrees. What's more, the record high for that date is 102 degrees in Escondido (in 1929) and 103 degrees in Santa Ana (in 1965). So tell us again, Anderson, how global warming is to blame, when the weather where the fires struck was not nearly as hot as it was more than 40 years ago and almost 80 years ago!
What about those harsh Santa Ana winds? Well, they are pretty strong. Here's one writer's description: "It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch."
Woooo! What a great description of the winds last week. Except that this passage wasn't written last week, last month, or last year. It was written by detective fiction master Raymond Chandler to describe the Santa Ana winds of about 70 years ago. It's in the opening paragraph of his famous short story "Red Wind," first published in 1938. So rough winds are nothing new under the California sun!
What's really changing the "climate" in Southern California is that there is more fuel for fires, since much less of the brush, as well as disease-infested trees, can be cleared, thanks to environmental mandates.
The problem is even worse on land owned by the federal and state governments. To satisfy the feds, San Diego has placed more than 170,000 acres off limit to development for the exclusive purpose, in the city's words, of "protect[ing] habitat for over 1,000 native and non-native plant species and more than 380 species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals." Hugh Hewitt, the California radio talk show host and author who is also a real estate attorney, has noted in the Weekly Standard:
"The land that has passed into ‘conserved' status is at even greater risk of fire than private land that is home to a protected species because absolutely no one cares for its fire management policy. The scrum of planners, consultants and G-11s that put together these plans should be monitoring these areas closely. Instead, they regulate and move on to savage the property rights of the next region."
And enviro groups also get more and more land locked up by conveniently finding more species to petition the government to protect. In California, as in other places, it's often a case of creative subdividing of essentially the same species. First it was the Stephens kangaroo rat whose designation as endangered put much brush clearance off limits. Then, in 1998, the San Bernardino kangaroo rat got listed. Also under federal protection is the Fresno kangaroo rat. And so on and so on.
Across the country, fires have become more destructive as trees and shrubs gain "protected" status preventing them form being cleared. As Bill Croke noted last week in American Thinker, In the last two decades annual timber production on the national forests in the West has decreased from roughly 12 billion board feet to less than 3 billion today. This has resulted in brush-choked forests with large "fuel loads."
The ironic thing is that all this "protection" at the expense of humans doesn't necessarily work out for the gnatcatchers -- not to mention more majestic creatures -- anyway. According to the Associated Press, the fires struck close to the San Diego Wild Animal Park, threatening condors, a cheetah, and many other animals. The Blue Ribbon Fire Commission found that the 2003 wildfires resulted in "the loss of valuable watershed, wildlife, and critical environmental habitats."
Of course, saving species never really was the objective of many enviros. It's just a subterfuge for their main interest of controlling the human species.
Endangered Species Act abuses, including those that prevented fire breaks in Southern California, were an issue that helped get the GOP in power in 1994. But with some exceptions like former Rep. Richard Pombo of California, Republicans began to abandon this issue, lest they be branded as anti-green. It's time for the GOP, as well as truly moderate Democrats, to befriend again the threatened species known as the beleaguered property owner.
And if the Nobel Committee really wanted to give an award to folks preventing a hazard threatening mankind, they should rescind Al Gore's prize and hand it to the brave California firefighters whose jobs have been made so much harder by the nonsensical practices of the environmental movement.
The bestest thing about Bigdogmas latest "American Non-thinker" C&P was that John Berlau quoted the "Weakly Standartenfuhrer" as a source !!
I love these desperate neo-idiots, they should have a special place where we could all go and feed them peanuts, or pelt them with dung.
The spin and bias is phenomenal on this latest Bigplagariser masterpiece.
So, with a completely straight face, is there anyone in the audience that actually agrees with this article, it's factual content, it's smug arrogance that the fires are entirely the fault of the Democrats, environmentalists, Mexican immigrants, OBL and even more Democrats, or is anyone unable to see it's bias, which I feel is larger than a full-grown Orca whale in a suburban swimming pool.
I'm curious. Real curious.
Hey, I can C&P too ! I haven't had time to really look for precise temperature records, unlike the surely precise and accurate and "not at all" spun "Amerikan Stinker" article, this was just a cursory skim, and it's from July, so unless it snowed in August and September, I don't think it got much colder.
Can you say "Hottest Summer since records began" Bigdogma ?
Western US States Swelter Under Record Heatwave Parched California has driest 'rainy season' on record Los Angeles (AFP) July 1 - Los Angeles suffered through the driest rainy season on record in 2007, marking the least amount of precipitation here in the 130 years rainfall has been measured, weather officials said Sunday. There were just 8.15 centimeters (3.2 inches) of rain in Los Angeles between January 1 and June 30 -- barely a fifth of the annual average rainfall of 38.3 centimeters (15 inches). "This was the driest rain season ever in downtown Los Angeles and at many other locations in southwestern California," the National Weather Service said in a statement. Most California rains fall in the first half of the year, particularly between January and March. The National Weather Service began compiling precipitation statistics in 1877. Los Angeles residents saw very heavy rains from late 2005 into early 2006, but officials warned that water rationing is possible by next winter if drought conditions persist. (file image) by Staff Writers
Los Angeles (AFP) Jul 06, 2007
A ferocious heatwave that has gripped the western United States was expected to continue on Friday, with sizzling record temperatures forecast across the sun-baked region. Although temperatures cooled in California early Friday as a high pressure weather system lifted, excessive heat warnings remained in place across large swathes of the state and neighboring Nevada and Arizona. "The high pressure system that has been stubbornly parked over southern California is on a weakening trend, allowing temperatures to cool down to seasonable temperatures," meteorologist Jamie Meier said. However the National Weather Service warned that temperatures in southern California's San Diego County would reach up to 117 degrees Fahrenheit (47 degrees Celsius). On Thursday, the Californian town of Baker sweltered under temperatures of 125 degrees F (52 C).
Several cities across the affected states witnessed record high temperatures on Thursday, including Las Vegas, where arriving tourists were greeted by furnace-like temperatures of 117 degrees F (47 C).
Forecasters advised people in the worst hit areas to limit their time in the sun and carry out regular checks on vulnerable relatives and neighbors.
The operators of California's power grid meanwhile called on residents to conserve electricity during the heat of the day in order to prevent outages.
The California Independent System Operator said it was confident of avoiding major blackouts but said it expected energy demand to hit near record-levels as people cranked up air conditioners to cope with the the triple-digit heat.
The heatwave has left firefighters across the western US nervously fearing the worst following a record dry spring.
Firefighters have warned that the temperatures combined with thousands of acres of tinder dry brush and parkland is a potentially lethal combination.
Meanwhile the US Border Patrol in Arizona, which saw Phoenix roasted in 115 degree F (46 C) temperatures on Thursday, issued warned illegal immigrants of the dangers of attempting to cross the border from Mexico in the heat.
It came after officers rescued 10 migrants in remote areas of the Arizona desert on Wednesday all suffering from severe dehydration.
US Border Patrol in Arizona have discovered at least 16 bodies in the desert over the past month, according to local media reports.
Hundreds of illegal immigrants die every year attempting to cross the border from Mexico into the US, with many of the deaths blamed on exposure to heat.
We were so busy deflecting criticisms of all the other fook ups that we we late grasping the fook up to end all fook ups.
Either that or they'll distract you with a nuclear attack on 30 fronts.
Whats so strange is that it's no shame to admit we have a problem. We've all caused it, we're all responsible, why the farce? Why block the efforts to grasp it, understand it? What's unbelievable is not that belching smokestacks, spewing waste pipes and full scale, full speed, unbridled industrialization on a global scale is NOT making everyone alarmed and motivated to find ways to prevent global chaos.
The dingalings seem to have cornered the market, when it comes to stupidity.
...belching smokestacks, spewing waste pipes and full scale, full speed, unbridled industrialization on a global scale is NOT making everyone alarmed and motivated to find ways to prevent global chaos.
There is no global chaos. The air and water are cleaner today than they were 30 years ago. Get off your high horse about "the environment". Open your eyes and stop quoting your 8th grade social science teacher. Your emotional posts are just plain foolish.
Full scale, full speed, unbridled industrialization on a global scale is exactly that which will generate the money to do some of the things you're so worried about. The USA is the only country on Earth with enough money to fund the research on emission controls and corrective technologies so near and dear to you. Poor little hut dwellers can't create new forms of energy!
Are you afraid of the boogie man. You're not in reality.
Your posts read like a 1970 Greenpeace commercial. How about reading and educating yourself about the topics you get so excited about. It's no longer 1970.
__________________
2001 ST4 Mod Rod
Built by BCM in 2004 and still running like a clock. 120 HP at the rear wheel. 55 mpg. Thanks Bruce (and Jay)!
There is no global chaos. The air and water are cleaner today than they were 30 years ago.
Been listening to Rush(Nazi gas bag)LimpBlah again I see.
Full scale, full speed, unbridled industrialization on a global scale is exactly that which will generate the money to do some of the things you're so worried about. The USA is the only country on Earth with enough money to fund the research on emission controls and corrective technologies so near and dear to you. Poor little hut dwellers can't create new forms of energy!
I guess you just loved the Love canal Dan. If you knew history, which you dont, you could use some of the lessons learned, the hard way, by mean and women greater, smarter and vastly more experienced than yourself. But Dan the economic, political and natural mystic has it all figured. Lemme guess, Einstein, Socrates and Plato were morons, emotional weaklings.... you're such an arrogant fool.
Are you afraid of the boogie man. You're not in reality.
This is from the guy who lives in the home of the brave but is afraid of everyone who is non American or non white. Dan, to your inner child I say, fear the decimation of nature, look to your fellow man for solutions, not the other way round.
Your posts read like a 1970 Greenpeace commercial. How about reading and educating yourself about the topics you get so excited about. It's no longer 1970.
Ya Dan, who needs 60 million year old whales or breeding grounds for cod fish? Who needs all that "stuff" that is in your way? Who needs bugs and birds? Not the dingaling thats for sure. His political and spiritual dimwitteness leaves him just as unaware of the ramifications of his environmental sins as his social and economic disasters.
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
Did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
Did you exchange
A walk on part in the war,
For a lead role in a cage?
How I wish, how I wish you were there.
You're just too lost to know
Swimming in a toilet bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have you found?
The same old fears.
Wish you could hear.
The Environmentalist Fires
Linear Mode
