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post #61 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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le kiwi,
Perhaps evil amerika should take a lesson from ''you'' french. We should fill our evil homeland with cooling towers and go ''full tilt'' nuke. The french have all the answers.

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post #62 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:09 PM
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Wait! Those articles I posted were printed with ink in Forbe's Magazine.

Printed - that's a Big Business.

With INK - three letters, same as OIL.

In Forbe's Magazine - a Capitalist Publication.

In summary, my post is invalidated for the clearly obvious reasons stated above. I must therefore be a brown-shirt, lock-stepped with all the other ultra-Right-Wing Conservatives. It's all so clear when you just take a minute to look at it.

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post #63 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
Please tell me your point then.
One volcanic eruption can do more to alter temperature (at least temporarily)than all the Hummers and cows combined.

And because it is temporary, that supports the position that the Earth is largely self-regulating, and as a whole has an effective buffer system to remain habitable for as long as we will be around.

But I could be wrong of course, and as I starve from lack of arable land with skin tumors from the unchecked UV rays, my last thought will be:
Cutter and Kiwi were right.

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post #64 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanST4
Wait! Those articles I posted were printed with ink in Forbe's Magazine.

Printed - that's a Big Business.

With INK - three letters, same as OIL.
.
LOL
Since you conveniently forgot to post were you really copied that article from, I will for you.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/ke...k=envirowackos

Very reputable site there


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post #65 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sburns2421
One volcanic eruption can do more to alter temperature (at least temporarily)than all the Hummers and cows combined.

And because it is temporary, that supports the position that the Earth is largely self-regulating, and as a whole has an effective buffer system to remain habitable for as long as we will be around.

But I could be wrong of course, and as I starve from lack of arable land with skin tumors from the unchecked UV rays, my last thought will be:
Cutter and Kiwi were right.
Fortunately, volcanic particles will settle out of the stratosphere in two or three years, so that the effects of volcanic eruptions on ozone depletion are short lived. Although volcanic aerosols provide a catalyst for ozone depletion, the real culprits in destroying ozone are human-generated.

Just look at all sides of the story, I found nothing credible stating we are not doing harm, all there is is talking points and junk science propaganda saying global warming has nothing to do with us, something is wrong with the picture you have to admit.

It's not about protecting our egos and desperately trying to win the debate, but being open to all possibilities and making your own theories from what evidence you see without being distracted by talking points.

Like the Kyoto treaty is being used as a talking point, and even down right being lied about to distract you from the truth, and make a sense that there is nothing we can do because there are no answers, so lets drive SUV's and forget about it... When that is very far from the truth.

There is a lot we can do, step by step with very little financial repercussions(if any), and until people stop getting slapped in the face with junk science and backward talking points designed to put doubt in peoples mind, nothing will be done, exactly what some big business's with painfully obvious motives like to see.

Our next generation won't care who won the debate, but they will care if we don't take action.









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post #66 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cutter
LOL
Since you conveniently forgot to post were you really copied that article from, I will for you.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/ke...k=envirowackos

Very reputable site there
See, there you go. No comment on the content of the two articles which happens to blow holes in your ridiculous support for Kyoto. Nope just a jab at some website which might have posted a link to the Forbe's Magazine article; totally irrelevant yet in your alternate universe a slam-dunk.

THIS is the way of you lunatics. You care not for fact - you care only for emotion. You are proud to say "do something, anything..."

That's why I say you and your party are incapable of making rational decisions.
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post #67 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:42 AM
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In bold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
*Hybrid cars still suck gas

YES THEY DO BUT THEY ALSO RELEASE LESS EMISSIONS AND GET MORE MPG THAN 90% OF NON HYBRID CARS. AND SINCE YOU'RE THE ONE CRYING ABOUT GWB, BIG OIL CONSPIRACIES AND THE BIG BAD CAR MANUFACTURES, ID THINK YOU'D BE THE FIRST TO WANNA STICK TO 'THE MAN'?!?!?

OR AM I WRONG AND YOU JUST NEED A TOPIC TO REBEL AGAINST?


*Electric car batteries can be recycled, and are far less impacting on the enviroment.

THE CURRENT VOLUME IN RECYCLING BATTERIES ISNT AN ISSUE BUT YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY PROBABLY 10X THAT PER EVERY VEHICLE IT WILL REPLACE AND IM THINKING WE'RE GONNA HAVE RECYCLING ISSUES.


I am making changes personally, so don't worry too much about me, but forcing a civilization to drive gas only vehicles is absurd.

WHO'S FORCING YOU TO DRIVE A CAR? IS ANYONE FORCING THE AMISH TO DRIVE CARS? MY POINT WITH THAT RIDICULOUS REMARK IS NONE OF US 'HAS TO' DRIVE A CAR IF WE FEEL THAT STRONGLY ON A SUBJECT.

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post #68 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by DanST4
See, there you go. No comment on the content of the two articles which happens to blow holes in your ridiculous support for Kyoto. Nope just a jab at some website which might have posted a link to the Forbe's Magazine article; totally irrelevant yet in your alternate universe a slam-dunk.

THIS is the way of you lunatics. You care not for fact - you care only for emotion. You are proud to say "do something, anything..."

That's why I say you and your party are incapable of making rational decisions.
LOL, I love how you take your own faults and portray them on me, anyone with any sense at all can see through that BS.

You seriously got to be kidding me, you claim Forbes printed that crap, and you stand by it like it is proven fact, but there is no evidence posted of this, the only link I saw that was posted is this is one of the most right sided propaganda sites I have ever seen in my life.
Not to even mention that Forbes is supposed to be some global geologists authority, give me a break!

I read some of the comments on some of the articles posted on that site, it's nothing but racist elitists trying to find a outlet to vent their hate on the world, just say the word and I will copy and paste it.
I'm sorry for not looking at it for a serious proven science link, but then dismiss NASA as liberal garbage, you have to be ****ing retarded!

I hate name calling, but this is so obnoxiously stupid it's ridiculous.
Then you cast your retarded image on me like I do that shit is downright morbid.

Are you going to start calling me names because I named myself DanST4?
That is the only step left of guilt reflection on me that is possible!

But I will be waiting for your next quote coming from... well... ah, Cosmopolitan maybe, or maybe another obtusely insignificant to the topic magazine?

You guys are a joke, but you do make me laugh.

Lets here your stories about how the earth is flat.


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post #69 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cutter
*Hybrid cars still suck gas

YES THEY DO BUT THEY ALSO RELEASE LESS EMISSIONS AND GET MORE MPG THAN 90% OF NON HYBRID CARS. AND SINCE YOU'RE THE ONE CRYING ABOUT GWB, BIG OIL CONSPIRACIES AND THE BIG BAD CAR MANUFACTURES, ID THINK YOU'D BE THE FIRST TO WANNA STICK TO 'THE MAN'?!?!?
I drive a very gas
efficient
car, but I would
prefer
not being forced to choose only one option for a vehicle, this society is set up were a vehicle is needed, I just don't see why it is a big deal to let pure electric cars have a chance?
I'm not anti oil, I'm just anti monopoly, I want the option to buy a car or bike that is purely electric, something I can charge with the solar panels on my roof that creates no
emissions
, or weekly expenses.

OR AM I WRONG AND YOU JUST NEED A TOPIC TO REBEL AGAINST?
Like usual, you are wrong, not that your super ego would ever allow you to see your own faults.




THE CURRENT VOLUME IN RECYCLING BATTERIES ISNT AN ISSUE BUT YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY PROBABLY 10X THAT PER EVERY VEHICLE IT WILL REPLACE AND IM THINKING WE'RE GONNA HAVE RECYCLING ISSUES.
Lets see, what to do with some batteries, or have global warming that will trigger a ice age so 6 billion people have to die..?
I guess we will figure out the recycling issue (if there would even be one) when the time comes.



WHO'S FORCING YOU TO DRIVE A CAR? IS ANYONE FORCING THE AMISH TO DRIVE CARS? MY POINT WITH THAT RIDICULOUS REMARK IS NONE OF US 'HAS TO' DRIVE A CAR IF WE FEEL THAT STRONGLY ON A SUBJECT.
Maybe the extremist would do that, all I ask for is the freedom to chose what energy source my real world transportation comes from, but you seem to want suppress that freedom.
Why can't I buy a electric car?
Why does it have to be, methane or gas powered?
Because that is the only option?

Answer not acceptable, call me crazy for wanting a car company to make a electric car without being destroyed by big oil...
But I guess the answer is drive a SUV or become Amish, must be nice to see the world in black or white.


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post #70 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by cutter
must be nice to see the world in black or white.
You've been seeing that way since the first political debate Ive ever had with you, why change now? Oh yea cuz it doesnt agree with your current stance.

As for the electric car conspiracy, invent one and watch what happens. You will be sucked into the lure of the good old American dollar just like every other entrepenaur. Big bad car maker will make ridiculously high offer to buy your invention not because they crave black gold but just cuz its what corporations do with competitors.
But not in YOUR eyes, it cant be that simple theirs gotta be an ulterior motive, right? Another conspiracy not a smart business move by a competitor.

As usual you dont get my somewhat sarcastic solution to YOUR position and what YOU can do to walk the talk. You stand there on your soap box preaching what everyone 'else' should be doing but dont take great steps yourself to lead by example. Typical with todays hypocrits. You could be looking into mass transportation or commute with others to cut down on the amount of cars driven everyday but you dont or else you would of shared it with us. But AGAIN its not about what YOU should do, its about what the government should do for all of us.

As far my recycling example, every few yrs we hear about landfill problems/shortages, etc.... and how illegal dumping is contaminating land all over the place. Here you sit pissing in moaning about what MIGHT happen 100 yrs from now but dismiss the inevitable problem we WOULD have right here on terrain we live on if all cars were to become electric like most greenies dream about. Call me crazy but Im thinking the recycling of caustic chemicals in the short term would be greater problems than the one you're trying to solve now. Just my :twocents

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post #71 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFBO
You've been seeing that way since the first political debate Ive ever had with you, why change now? Oh yea cuz it doesnt agree with your current stance.

As for the electric car conspiracy, invent one and watch what happens. You will be sucked into the lure of the good old American dollar just like every other entrepenaur. Big bad car maker will make ridiculously high offer to buy your invention not because they crave black gold but just cuz its what corporations do with competitors.
But not in YOUR eyes, it cant be that simple theirs gotta be an ulterior motive, right? Another conspiracy not a smart business move by a competitor.
Did your parents have any children that lived?
Did you forget these big manufactures made electric cars?


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post #72 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cutter
You seriously got to be kidding me, you claim Forbes printed that crap, and you stand by it like it is proven fact, but there is no evidence posted of this, the only link I saw that was posted is this is one of the most right sided propaganda sites I have ever seen in my life.
Not to even mention that Forbes is supposed to be some global geologists authority, give me a break!
The contents of the article is the point. The numbers Cutter, the CO2 emission increases in countries which adopted Kyoto vs. the CO2 reductions in the countries that did not. It was posted in response to your "do something, anything" comment.

You criticize the link but you're the one that posted the link! I posted information.

You miss the entire point.

But you mean well, and that's more important than anything (...do something, anything!)

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post #73 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 02:58 PM Thread Starter
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I'm 50 and since I was a kid I've been awaiting the car of the future. You know, George Jetsons' car. maybe it'll happen during my life, maybe not.
If it does and we get a non-petro burning vehicle, I'll be one of the first to buy one.
Not to stop greenhouse gas emissions. Rather, to help "crater the Saudi's".
They're a far bigger threat to the planet with thier wahabbism than CO2.
The sooner they're a footnote to history, the better.
Now that I threw that bomb, whaddya think ?

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post #74 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero
Now that I threw that bomb, whaddya think ?
You're a neocommie probly.

As some of us pointed out already some of these guys dont think entirely normal.

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post #75 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 06:00 PM
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You would be the first one in the class to stick up his hand for "Non-normal thinking", XFBO !

This is an interesting site I've found, it's a pretty fair and un-biased site on Global Warming, and it explains it in a straightforward way. Click on "English" for the English language site.

http://www.manicore.com

Thanks, Nero, for starting the topic, in the last few days I've tripled my knowledge about Global Warming.
I've also found how hard it is to really understand the issues, and to get factual and understandable information. Either it's scientific jargon and incomprehensible graphs and charts, understandable only to other scientists, or its "dogma speak" from the Right AND the Left, because I make no bones about this, it IS a serious subject, but it HAS been hijacked by both extremes, and finding a sane and encompassing view is not easy.

Dan and the other doubters, please post your references so we can read them, not to poke holes in them (weeelll, maybe a little, but only when they come from "Idiots Against Science"... ) and try to get some idea of where a certain truth lies.

This is a serious issue, and it affects us all. We can ALL make a difference if we ALL pull together, and if we identify CORRECTLY, without recourse to dogma, where the real problems are, and make conscious efforts to redress them.
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post #76 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero
I'm 50 and since I was a kid I've been awaiting the car of the future. You know, George Jetsons' car. maybe it'll happen during my life, maybe not.
If it does and we get a non-petro burning vehicle, I'll be one of the first to buy one.
Not to stop greenhouse gas emissions. Rather, to help "crater the Saudi's".
They're a far bigger threat to the planet with thier wahabbism than CO2.
The sooner they're a footnote to history, the better.
Now that I threw that bomb, whaddya think ?
I agree 100%, and that is another great reason to reduce our fossil fuel consumption, to free us from O.P.E.C.s death grip on America.


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post #77 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cutter
I agree 100%, and that is another great reason to reduce our fossil fuel consumption, to free us from O.P.E.C.s death grip on America.
Death grip on America? Are you serious?
Although I dont like buying crude oil from the ME anymore than any other American, can you tell me what's wrong with the mindset of depleting their resources before fully tapping into ours?

The only way I see us 'saving' the environment is for us to basically move back into the stone ages.
You've already showed us you're not willing to step up to the plate and lead by example by driving whats CURRENTLY on the market (hybrid) in an effort to save the enviro....but yet you feel the need to bitch about everyone else not doing anything.

Id be willing to bet you if GM/Ford/Chrysler came out with a full blown electric car tomorrow for twice the cost of a comparable gas/diesel driven vehicle (which isnt unusual since ALL new technology always costs more upfront) you'd probably come up with some other BS excuse, not buy the car and still bitch about the enviroment. Tell me Im wrong!

I hate to bust your bubble but like many other countries THIS country HAS become very oil dependant. Not only in transportation but in heating our homes, making products, etc.....We're not gonna become an oil-free nation anytime soon so get over it. You wanna cut down on our ME dependency then ALLOW increased drilling and refining in the US......but I bet you're against that too, right or wrong?

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post #78 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:46 PM
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XFBO, you're not stupid, you've proven that by other, more intelligent posts on Sburns topic.
You are in a death grip, from your own charming Southern Gentleman Oil companies, and the Saudis/OPEC. It's not a secret, but it does require a bit of research.
You know, although I don't understand WHY you don't admit it, that there are heating alternatives to oil, which DON'T destroy the atmosphere, and you must understand the "mass production equals low prices for consumers" type of reasoning. So why not work, all together, for a common goal ?

Where I come from, everyone got stuck in together, the work was done fast, well, and there was no feeling of "He's not pulling his weight" or " The bosses do nothing and take all the rewards", and then we ALL went to the beach for a BBQ and beers (uh oh, CO2 and methane....), and my Country where World leaders in alternative fuel, solar energy and alternatives to the slavery of the countries fortunate enough to sit on the crude reserves...(and whatever hand luggage they carted with them...)

I actually like debating with you guys (I must be a masochist... ), and sometimes I even learn stuff that enhances my daily grind, but your refusal to contemplate that there IS a problem, and that it is NOT insurmountable, leaves me perplexed. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Dan doesn't like the Kyoto agreement, he thinks it will kill American industry (who doesn't care if they kill the children of tomorrow, because THEY won't be there to see it..bwah haa haa !!!) but he's missing the important parts, and is following the tail-lights of a juggernaught that is on a downward spiral, shrouded in a blinding fog that leaves him clinging to the ass of the monster's glowing red lights....

I swear, sometimes I wonder if you guys aren't PAID to write some of your stuff ?

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post #79 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
I agree 100%, and that is another great reason to reduce our fossil fuel consumption, to free us from O.P.E.C.s death grip on America.
Personally, I could care less about OPEC.
The Saudi's are the devils.
We have a lot of oil off the coast of California and in the Arctic.
We just aren't ready YET for the political battle that would take.
The Canadians are sitting atop a huge reservoir of oil (in shale) which can be extracted for around $15/barrel.

There is alot going on behind the scenes in this debate about global warming.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the radical ecos and anti-capitalists (read commies) are funding and pushing it. I couldn't prove it if I had to, just a prejudiced notion on my part.
The only motive I can think of for them doing so is a last gasp effort to show the world that democracy sucks and everyone should be commies.
I know that sounds way out there to some of you. Anyway, whatever is causing the world to SLOWLY warm up a bit is unstoppable by me, even if I wanted too.

I have another crazy notion too about global warming. If it does happen that the oceans rise a little and we lose a little coastal real estate, it all "comes out in the wash". What I mean is, ground now locked up in permafrost or too far north to be agricultural at present should benefit from a warming. People could begin habitating parts of the planet (and there's a lot) that currently are unbearably cold. A good trade off, I think.
Human populations have moved around on the surface of the earth for many thousands of years due to climate changes. What makes us think we're immune ?

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post #80 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFBO
Death grip on America? Are you serious?
Although I dont like buying crude oil from the ME anymore than any other American, can you tell me what's wrong with the mindset of depleting their resources before fully tapping into ours?

The only way I see us 'saving' the environment is for us to basically move back into the stone ages.
You've already showed us you're not willing to step up to the plate and lead by example by driving whats CURRENTLY on the market (hybrid) in an effort to save the enviro....but yet you feel the need to bitch about everyone else not doing anything.

Id be willing to bet you if GM/Ford/Chrysler came out with a full blown electric car tomorrow for twice the cost of a comparable gas/diesel driven vehicle (which isnt unusual since ALL new technology always costs more upfront) you'd probably come up with some other BS excuse, not buy the car and still bitch about the enviroment. Tell me Im wrong!

I hate to bust your bubble but like many other countries THIS country HAS become very oil dependant. Not only in transportation but in heating our homes, making products, etc.....We're not gonna become an oil-free nation anytime soon so get over it. You wanna cut down on our ME dependency then ALLOW increased drilling and refining in the US......but I bet you're against that too, right or wrong?
Aright, I know this may be very hard for you to understand in your black and white world.
But maybe, just maybe you can wrap your brain around the idea of have both electric cars and gas cars living side by side, I know you think if a electric car is made we will end up in the stone age somehow, but life isn't that drastic, but if we had lets say 50% of the vehicles on the road purely electric, the demand on crude oil will go down, less demand means cheaper fuel prices...

I know it must be pretty intense for you to comprehend this shade of grey, so I will type slow so you can keep up.

I'm proud that you managed to see hybrids as a step in the right direction, but hybrids are not the saviour you make them out to be, they only get about 2-4 more MPG's then it's counterparts, and that's if you drive a lot in residential neighborhoods, the battery doesn't come on at freeway speeds.

It is a half hearted attempt, but ultimately it is still a product of the oil companies strangle hold on the industry, though it is a step in the right direction.
As far as paying $60,000 for a fully electric car, I can't afford that.
But many people can, and would pay that, then the price goes down as more are made.
I am fiscal minded as well as frugal, and I know a electric car would save me a lot of money never having to pay for gas again, the market will favour electric cars for long enough for them to become common place and more inexpensive, but gas will drop in price from less demand and even out the market.
So a electric car that takes no fuel, but costs about 60 cents a mile if you charge at home figuring you use the power company and not your own solar panels or windmill.

Gas will probably drop to about 80 cents a gallon, so there will still be a demand for gas cars.

Now I know that was a lot to understand, electric and gas working side by side without going back to the stone age.
I'm not talking about shutting all the power off and living in caves, even though that is the fear instilled into you by someone or something.

So I may be not the most eco friendly person, but I don't think we need to be, we are in a oil monopoly, we don't see it because we have been in it since birth, I just see in no way shape or form how becoming less oil dependent would be a bad thing.

As far as me buying a hybrid, I can keep my car that gets 30 MPG that is paid off, and spend my money on solar paneling which would make more eco-nomy sense.

Save money and the planet, sounds like a win win, but propaganda spins of "no hope, so don't bother" attitudes is what holds a lot of people down, and a lot of people look up to our government for answers.
Needless to say, eco-nomy isn't in their best interests, so they tell us it isn't in our best interests either, and a lot of people just agree without questioning it.


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