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post #41 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:23 AM
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Relax. This guy just spent Christmas watching a Michael Moore or Al Gore movie and he's all wound up.

Cutter is just like these other geniuses who refuse to debate or discuss - they've already accepted the position of someone who touched them emotionally, and they'll now run around screaming about how their position is THE position and any other position is total BS.

If you present facts which are not in agreement with their position - you're a really dumb, bad person who has been brainwashed by Bush or Big Oil.

It happens in thread after thread after thread. They're so predictible, and boring.

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post #42 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanST4
It happens in thread after thread after thread. They're so predictible, and boring.
LMAO! True true true, it doesnt get more accurate than that!

The thing that cracks me the hell up is how Bush, Big Oil and the big pink elephant are MAKING him drive a fossil fueled car!!!! THEY'RE MAKING HIM!!!! LOL!

In all honesty, Im at the point I cannot wait till this Bush is out of the WH, JUST SO we can move on to the next set of conspiracies. How about it forum liberals, can you give us a heads up on what will be next subject of attack in '08 with the next republican president? Will it still be the BLACK GOLD conspiracy?

I mean he's such an extremist and liberty fighting individual that he's decided to continue using the very tools he's against.

Cmon cutter, how about using a bicycle to get around maybe you'll kill two birds with one stone while you're at it?!?!?

You keep bringing up electric cars, are you at least driving one of these modern day electric/gas cars toyota, honda and whomever else have built thus far? If not, why not? 40-60 mpg isnt good enough for you?
How do you define hypocrit, cutter?

How do you heat your home?
If not by a non fossil fuel, there ARE alternative fuels why continue to line the pockets of those big oil company's?

What have YOU, personally, done for the environment that you're demanding all the big bad corporations to do??? Cuz when its all said and done, Id be willing to bet they've contributed a lot more than you have.

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post #43 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by XFBO

The thing that cracks me the hell up is how Bush, Big Oil and the big pink elephant are MAKING him drive a fossil fueled car!!!! THEY'RE MAKING HIM!!!! LOL!
What other practical alternatives our there?

Quote:
I mean he's such an extremist and liberty fighting individual that he's decided to continue using the very tools he's against.
And what tools what that be, calling out the scientists for who they are?
Showing the world they are junk scientists for hire with obvious motivation is taking away their rights somehow?

Please explain that one...


Quote:
Cmon cutter, how about using a bicycle to get around maybe you'll kill two birds with one stone while you're at it?!?!?
True, I do have a bike, it doesn't carry the groceries home, or can carry my tools to work, or really practically get me anywhere in my location.
I stock pile and don't drive unless I have to for the most part, the bike is really only for exercise
Quote:
You keep bringing up electric cars, are you at least driving one of these modern day electric/gas cars toyota, honda and whomever else have built thus far? If not, why not? 40-60 mpg isnt good enough for you?
How do you define hypocrit, cutter?
All mass manufactured electric cars were destroyed, Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM.
There was a big protest from the people that leased the cars and wanted to buy their lease, but the auto manufactures wouldn't allow anyone to keep their electric car, and even threatened them with the law if they did not surrender the vehicles.

All electric vehicles were decommissioned and destroyed.

Quincidently the oil companies made a case to the EPA in California to lower it's standard from 0 emissions cars, now there is no 0 emission cars, and there is no place to buy a electric car, and they lobbied to stop funding of charging stations.


But god forbid if that direct attack on the electric car was the oil companies fault, I suppose in some bizarre way someone could think that they just showed us that the electric car would never happen because they said so, and spent good money down playing the cars to the public, but yeah, they are so innocent.

These are not theories of conspiracies, there is a lot of evidence and facts of them doing this, a lot of which isn't even disputed by the oil companies themselves.


So, in conclusion I am sorry for not buying a electric car that doesn't exist anymore.
Go rent "Who Killed The Electric Car"
Check out this site
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokille.../electric.html


Not that you will, you will probably just believe your paid off scientists feel good theories, and you probably still believe there is WMD's in Iraq, there is no reasoning with you guys.

I just hope you don't let your kids smoke cigarettes and refuse to wash off the pesticides on your fruits and vegetables because these junk scientists say it's good for you.

How can you take these guys seriously?


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post #44 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 05:51 PM
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Dan and XFBO. Fossil fueled cars and motorcycles contribute a TINY percentage of greenhouse gas to the Human activity linked warming of the last 200 years (...since we began the industrial revolution.)
Heating with fuel and airtravel is a much bigger part of the problem, but it's a fart in the eye of a hurricane compared to de-forestation and the destruction of the rain forests.

Dan, did you bother to spare a glance down your nose at the NASA website ? You know, the one with the temperature on an increasing rise since the 1880's (it's a bit hard to know with utter precision from before that, due to the satellites being a bit primitive, the wood burnt up before entry into the Ionosphere........)
The one where they say that 2005 was the hottest overall year ever on the planet since accurate weather observations. (1998 had peaks, but not as much MAT.)

You guys are the ones stuck in your little dogma groove, by denying that Human activity has increased the re-heating of the planets surface abnormally, and that all those hedonistic "Live today, pay later" years are finally catching up with us, and it's our children who will be the ones to go "Gee, thanks, Dad..." a few more years down the road, as they contemplate life underground, away from the lethal solar radiation and superheated planet surface.
Yeah, RCrider51, Greenpeace do attempt to spin it as negatively as possible. People tend to be stupid, and react to BIG BAD news, rather than just friendly warnings or cautions. It's hard to put a positive spin on total destruction of our beautiful planet and all the living things on it, though, especially when you realise just how fragile the balance of Nature is. (although Scientist For Stupidity spokesperson shill Milloy does a pretty good job... )

So I guess that Cutter and I are just weepy, emotionally touched wool-heads, who happen to think that the VAST majority of the scientific community, and any alert observer, who specialises in the evolution of planetary weather patterns happen to be on a path which looks right, sounds right, and probably IS right.
But Dan and XFBO, you surely must have some other links or precise scientific fact that represent your apparent oppinions that everything is just groovy, don't panic, go back to sleep, global warming is just another "lefty" plot to...er, what's it supposed to do ?

Cui Bono.
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post #45 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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le kiwi,
Maybe deforestation and jetliners are causing this too..

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ge_031208.html

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post #46 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero
le kiwi,
Maybe deforestation and jetliners are causing this too..

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ge_031208.html
Ha, that totally disproves that we are contributing to global warming.
Now I can go buy that SUV, maybe we should tell the world about this inclusive evidence, and tell California that it's smog is just a illusion created by left wing conspirators.

Hey, that feels good, lets roll with that.


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post #47 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero
I'm curious. How many of you have bought into the idea than humans are the LEADING cause of global warming ? Do you even believe the Earth is warming ?
Everything I've read in the last decade shows that the average temperature is increasing, albeit slightly and not beyond the historical range. OTOH, the estimations for global temperature earlier than the 20th century are sketchy at best. Even going back a couple of hundred years, the data is heavly fragmented and largely inaccurate from records taken by man. We are talking about fractions of degrees, impossible to measure way back when. Using tree ring or ice layer thickness to estimate the summer of 492 BC seems like a waste of time, other than to say the temp goes through cycles.

I don't doubt man contributes to the amount of heat energy released into the atmosphere, and that the composition of the atmosphere is slightly different than it was decades ago, however the extent of our influence is vastly overrated, IMHO. The underlying motivator of liberalism (eco-liberalism in this case) is selfishness and self-centeredness. WE have to be the ones causing global warming because WE are the most important beings ever to swim, crawl, or walk on this rock. The other erroneous conclusion of this logic is that WE are the only ones that can stop it. While counter-intuitive it is nonetheless obvious if you think about the militant greenies.

Some see the Earth as a rather fragile balance, an ecological knife-edge where any small perturbation will send the planet (and US) into chaos which will ultimately lead to OUR destruction.

History has shown however, that even after great cataclysms the Earth is a resilient old girl. Self-regulating as well.

As an aside, at first glance you would think volcanic eruptions, with their GW of heat energy and millions of tons of CO2 released into the atmosphere would lead to global warming, but that would be wrong. One big eruption and our global warming worries are over
http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volc...e_effects.html

BTW, I found this on the internet, which among his many gifts to the world was invented by Al Gore .

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post #48 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 06:51 PM
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Thanks for the laugh guys - you're both absolutely insane. What's it like to live in your dismal world where everything and everyone is out to get you, and everything you do has a negative impact on the environment and our children?

.. and it's our children who will be the ones to go "Gee, thanks, Dad..." a few more years down the road, as they contemplate life underground, away from the lethal solar radiation and superheated planet surface.

Just re-reading that paragraph gave me another good laugh. Thanks! How do you guys make this stuff up?

... You know, the one with the temperature on an increasing rise since the 1880's...

The 1880's - oh man this is funny stuff. Our kids will be living below the surface! In 1880 they had some really sophisticated and highly accurate temperature monitoring systems... which they kept in the barn next to their horse!

You guys crack me up. Let's hear more! I'm starting to like you nuts.

BTW - anyone look at the temperature of Earth over the past 3 years? It's going down. Poor Al Gore doesn't like to talk about that inconvenient fact.

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post #49 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanST4
Thanks for the laugh guys - you're both absolutely insane. What's it like to live in your dismal world where everything and everyone is out to get you, and everything you do has a negative impact on the environment and our children?

.. and it's our children who will be the ones to go "Gee, thanks, Dad..." a few more years down the road, as they contemplate life underground, away from the lethal solar radiation and superheated planet surface.

Just re-reading that paragraph gave me another good laugh. Thanks! How do you guys make this stuff up?

... You know, the one with the temperature on an increasing rise since the 1880's...

The 1880's - oh man this is funny stuff. Our kids will be living below the surface! In 1880 they had some really sophisticated and highly accurate temperature monitoring systems... which they kept in the barn next to their horse!

You guys crack me up. Let's hear more! I'm starting to like you nuts.

BTW - anyone look at the temperature of Earth over the past 3 years? It's going down. Poor Al Gore doesn't like to talk about that inconvenient fact.
Though you amuse me with your character judgement arguments, it doesn't really say much about the topic at hand.
Post some evidence to support your counter points and theories.


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post #50 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sburns2421
Everything I've read in the last decade shows that the average temperature is increasing, albeit slightly and not beyond the historical range. OTOH, the estimations for global temperature earlier than the 20th century are sketchy at best. Even going back a couple of hundred years, the data is heavily fragmented and largely inaccurate from records taken by man. We are talking about fractions of degrees, impossible to measure way back when. Using tree ring or ice layer thickness to estimate the summer of 492 BC seems like a waste of time, other than to say the temp goes through cycles.
True that we can't tell fractions of degrees, but we can tell the temperature throughout the ages pretty well from core samples, but if you have a link supporting these samples being heavily fragmented please share.
It's the only thing that I am aware of that we have for reference.
The alternative is just excluding it all together and go one like nothing is happening.

Quote:
I don't doubt man contributes to the amount of heat energy released into the atmosphere, and that the composition of the atmosphere is slightly different than it was decades ago, however the extent of our influence is vastly overrated, IMHO. The underlying motivator of liberalism (
eco
-liberalism in this case) is selfishness and self-
centeredness
. WE have to be the ones causing global warming because WE are the most important beings ever to swim, crawl, or walk on this rock. The other erroneous conclusion of this logic is that WE are the only ones that can stop it. While counter-intuitive it is nonetheless obvious if you think about the militant
greenies
.
It could go the other way too, the opposition that seemingly be based solely on these hack scientists say, WE CANNOT affect the environment,
WE make no impact on this world what so ever, extreme Eco leftists like the DNR say that WE can actually over hunt and over fish, but WE are so small of a factor WE can never do anything to affect any part of our environment ever, and too think so is just a super ego hysteria.

Quote:
Some see the Earth as a rather fragile balance, an ecological knife-edge where any small perturbation will send the planet (and US) into chaos which will ultimately lead to OUR destruction.
I think it is more of a matter of OUR massive amounts of greenhouse emissions might just be enough to melt the ice on Greenland causing the gulf stream to stop, the earth will survive, and so will humans, but I really don't want to see the time 6 billion people starve to death because of a ice age most publish scientists say will happen, and more then likely in our lifetimes.

Earth will live on, but I guess I'm so selfish that I don't want the planet to break out into anarchy and watch 6 billion people die if there is even a chance in hell to stop it, and there might be.

Quote:
History has shown however, that even after great cataclysms the Earth is a resilient old girl. Self-regulating as well.

As an aside, at first glance you would think volcanic eruptions, with their GW of heat energy and millions of tons of CO2 released into the atmosphere would lead to global warming, but that would be wrong. One big eruption and our global warming worries are over
http://www.geology.sdsu.edu/how_volc...e_effects.html

BTW, I found this on the
internet
, which among his many gifts to the world was invented by Al Gore .
Thanks for the link you obviously never read.
Quote:
INFLUENCE ON THE OZONE EFFECT:

The halide acid
HCl
has been shown to be effective in destroying ozone; however, the latest studies show that most volcanic
HCl
is confined to the troposphere (below the stratosphere), where it is washed out by rain. Thus, it never has the opportunity to react with ozone. On the other hand, satellite data after the 1991 eruptions of
Mt.Pinatubo
(the Philippines) and Mt. Hudson (Chile) showed a 15-20% ozone loss at high latitudes, and a greater than 50% loss over the Antarctic! Thus, it appears that volcanic eruptions can play a significant role in reducing ozone levels. However, it is an indirect role, which cannot be directly attributed to volcanic
HCl
. Eruption-generated particles, or aerosols, appear to provide surfaces upon which chemical reactions take place. The particles themselves do not contribute to ozone destruction, but they interact with chlorine- and bromine-bearing compounds from human-made
CFCs
. Fortunately, volcanic particles will settle out of the stratosphere in two or three years, so that the effects of volcanic eruptions on ozone depletion are short lived. Although volcanic aerosols provide a catalyst for ozone depletion, the real culprits in destroying ozone are human-generated
CFCs
. Scientists expect the ozone layer to recover due to restrictions on
CFCs
and other ozone-depleting chemicals by the United Nations Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer. However, future volcanic eruptions will cause fluctuations in the recovery process.


From your own link!
If you are going to say we can't do any damage, at least post links that agree with you.
LOL


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post #51 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:17 PM
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Dan and Sburns, maybe you skipped over some of the stuff on the NASA web site. Stuff like ;
"Recent warming coincides with rapid growth of human-made greenhouse gases....The observed rapid warming thus gives urgency to discussions about how to slow greenhouse gas emissions." This is off the 2005 temperature study. Maybe they are quack, lefty, anti-capitalist's who hate your freedoms, too.

I can't get this image to pop up happily here, so here is a link to the appropriate chart. Dan, you may want to print it and turn it on end, so that those big red "Gettin' kinda warm in here" graph lines ACTUALLY look like they are going down, and that therefore all Global Warming caused by "Humans" will return to a ghastly "lefty" plot in your open, critical and unbiased mind, and you won't have to sacrifice your SUV consumption lifestyle on the altar of having a future for your Planet. "Phew !"

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/fig.A2_irg.gif

Oh yeah, Dan, our World is a really, really great place. It's currently being ruined by some completely ignorant, arrogant schmucks with their heads firmly planted up their asses and on a roller-coaster ride to THEIR own destruction, to which we, normal Humans, resent being dragged along to. It goes against my nature to just let you kill yourselves, without at least trying to stop this suicidal rush to consume the planet. I live here too, and I have my own, selfish reasons for wanting somewhere for my kids to grow up and feel the crisp, morning breeze on their faces, and the glow of the morning sun washing the night away.
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post #52 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter
Ha, that totally disproves that we are contributing to global warming.
Now I can go buy that SUV, maybe we should tell the world about this inclusive evidence, and tell California that it's smog is just a illusion created by left wing conspirators.

Hey, that feels good, lets roll with that.
Cutter,
Why do you think I posted that link ?
What do Mars and Earth have in common ?
(hint)...they orbit the same star

What else do they have in common ?
(hint)...they're both warming up
Get it yet ?

And as far as I know Bush has never been to Mars and there's no oil there.

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post #53 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nero
And as far as I know Bush has never been to Mars and there's no oil there.
You're going to hell for that one bud! Dont you know according to these liberals GB is the Almighty one as he's the root of ALL evil and the sole contributor to ALL worldly problems.

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post #54 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nero
Cutter,
Why do you think I posted that link ?
What do Mars and Earth have in common ?
(hint)...they orbit the same star

What else do they have in common ?
(hint)...they're both warming up
Get it yet ?

And as far as I know Bush has never been to Mars and there's no oil there.
Yes I know what you are saying, and I apologize for being sarcastic, I guess when someone makes a good point and then uses the emoticon, and acts like it is the whole reason of everything based off of mars temperature readings, I get a little careless.

It is a valid point, and I do agree the sun can be unstable at time and definitely be a factor involved with climat readings.

But I also know that greenhouse gasses warm the planet too, and us adding to them seems like it would naturally effect our climate as well.
I guess the question is, how much is effecting what.

The rainforests suck up a lot of the C02, methane is 20 times more effective then C02 trapping solar radiation, so these billions of cows replacing the rainforests seem to be the biggest problem.

So big oil might have to give up it's environmental destruction crown to it's successor...McDonald's


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post #55 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cutter
From your own link!
If you are going to say we can't do any damage, at least post links that agree with you.
LOL
Keep laughing moron.
You totally missed the point of the comment.

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post #56 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cutter
What other practical alternatives our there?

ANY OF THE CURRENT HYBRIDS, YA THINK?


And what tools what that be, calling out the scientists for who they are?
Showing the world they are junk scientists for hire with obvious motivation is taking away their rights somehow?

Please explain that one...

MY BAD, TOOLS WAS THE WRONG WORD, REPLACE WITH FOSSIL FUELS.


True, I do have a bike, it doesn't carry the groceries home, or can carry my tools to work, or really practically get me anywhere in my location.
I stock pile and don't drive unless I have to for the most part, the bike is really only for exercise

IM NOT SURE CUTTER BUT IM ALSO NOT THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE THE ARGUMENT, THEN ID THINK YOU AND YOUR ILK WILL THINK OF 'SOMETHING' TO MINIMIZE THE INEVITABLE IMPACT YOU THINK ITS MAKING TO THE ENVIRONMENT. PRE-PLAN, I SUPPOSE AHEAD OF TIME AND GET A BASKET FOR THE OLE CYCLE.
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT THIS COUNTRY TO DO, CAN WE GET A OUTLINE OF WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE???

All mass manufactured electric cars were destroyed, Honda, Toyota, Ford, GM.
There was a big protest from the people that leased the cars and wanted to buy their lease, but the auto manufactures wouldn't allow anyone to keep their electric car, and even threatened them with the law if they did not surrender the vehicles.

All electric vehicles were decommissioned and destroyed.

Quincidently the oil companies made a case to the EPA in California to lower it's standard from 0 emissions cars, now there is no 0 emission cars, and there is no place to buy a electric car, and they lobbied to stop funding of charging stations.


But god forbid if that direct attack on the electric car was the oil companies fault, I suppose in some bizarre way someone could think that they just showed us that the electric car would never happen because they said so, and spent good money down playing the cars to the public, but yeah, they are so innocent.

These are not theories of conspiracies, there is a lot of evidence and facts of them doing this, a lot of which isn't even disputed by the oil companies themselves.


So, in conclusion I am sorry for not buying a electric car that doesn't exist anymore.
Go rent "Who Killed The Electric Car"
Check out this site
http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokille.../electric.html

HYBRIDS CUTTER....HYBRIDS!!! THERE ARE A COUPLE OUT THERE GETTING EXCELLANT MILEAGE WITH MINIMAL DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT....RIGHT?

BTW- SINCE WE'RE GOING NUTS ON THE ELECTRIC CAR SUBJECT, CAN ONE OF YOU GUYS TELL ME WHAT WE DO WITH ALL THOSE DEAD BATTERIES ONCE THEY'RE SHOT?

Not that you will, you will probably just believe your paid off scientists feel good theories, and you probably still believe there is WMD's in Iraq, there is no reasoning with you guys.

ACTUALLY, IM NOT ONE OF THE SILLY PPL WHO BELIEVED IRAQ STILL HAS WMD'S. IM PRETTY CONFIDENT THEY'VE BEEN MOVED TO A NEIGHBORING COUNTRY BEFORE WE EVER GOT THERE.

I just hope you don't let your kids smoke cigarettes and refuse to wash off the pesticides on your fruits and vegetables because these junk scientists say it's good for you.

I dont get this, you guys need to stick to one side of an argument. One minute, you want the right to do what YOU please without the government getting involved in any PERSONAL decisions. Then you make pooopoo face with cigarette companies??? LOL! I mean isnt that somewhat flipflopish?
Personally, I dont smoke but who am I to stop any ADULT from smoking cigarettes if that's what they choose to do? What's next cutter beer? alcohol? That's another item that kills innocent ppl every yr, probably moreso than those big bad cigarettes. Should we get rid of those items too?
You're one confusing dude to understand, I could swear you were the guy who thought weed should be legalized, no?

How can you take these guys seriously?
Couldnt the same question be asked of you?

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post #57 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFBO
cut
*Hybrid cars still suck gas

*Electric car batteries can be recycled, and are far less impacting on the enviroment.

IM NOT SURE CUTTER BUT IM ALSO NOT THE ONE BITCHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. IF YOU'RE GONNA MAKE THE ARGUMENT, THEN ID THINK YOU AND YOUR ILK WILL THINK OF 'SOMETHING' TO MINIMIZE THE INEVITABLE IMPACT YOU THINK ITS MAKING TO THE ENVIRONMENT. PRE-PLAN, I SUPPOSE AHEAD OF TIME AND GET A BASKET FOR THE OLE CYCLE.
WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU WANT THIS COUNTRY TO DO, CAN WE GET A OUTLINE OF WHAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE???

I am making changes personally, so don't worry too much about me, but forcing a civilization to drive gas only vehicles is absurd, that would be like McDonald's using it's power to make sure no vegetarian meat substitute is available to the public.

I would like to see fully electric cars as a option, if America still decides they want to buy gas cars then I would feel better that we as a nation destroyed our environment, instead of a few billionaires suppressing the option.

But the fact that we cannot have zero emissions vehicles in spite of global warming sirens going off is ludicrous.
I know you think that me driving my bike to get groceries is your win all solution to everything, but regulations need to be instilled to force the big companies to make cleaner more efficient products.

Light bulbs, fridges, furnaces, cars, monitors, everything.
Standard new construction homes that come with solar paneling, or easy to install solar paneling for homes and businesses...


The EPA needs to get out of big oil pocket, and changes need to be made, the rainforest needs to be protected, and until there is a suitable meat substitute, we need to figure out how to collect the methane from cows, or reduce methane emissions with different feed, or adding soy to big chain burgers... Something, anything will help.
But unless standards are enforced, nothing will ever get done.


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post #58 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sburns2421
Keep laughing moron.
You totally missed the point of the comment.
Please tell me your point then.


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post #59 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 10:13 PM
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You are an amazing guy, XFBO.

One of the things that would help is ratifying existing treaties (in other words, rejoining the rest of the Planet, come back in from cloud-cuckoo land where you currently dwell...) and making a big effort to get the people still locked in a kind of numbing idiot haze thats stopping them from thinking to learn a bit about what is going on around them. Small actions carried out by lots of people can have amazing effects.

Fossil fuels are part of the problem, but don't focus ONLY on that. The drop in emissions has been pretty impressive since the early 90's, especially in Europe, but it still has a LONG way to go. Just think, if every car buyer decided to buy a hybrid, or alternative fuel vehicle as their little part of saving the Planet, the car makers and their little petrol company chums would HAVE to play along, and ultimately prices would drop to cater for a mass consumption item. Look at plasma screen TV's.

I don't care if people smoke whatever they want, as long as there are controls on the amount of nicotene and chemical shit that the Coffin-nail companies can ram into their cancer-sticks. I don't think selling highly addictive cigarettes (and delicious tax-earning products for the "Evil Government"...) is a very ethical thing to do. IMHO.

Sburns, you think our impact on the environment is "vastly overrated".
I really don't think that air bursting atom bombs, over the Pacific, in Siberia, in the Indian Ocean, in Algeria, at White Sands, shit, where-ever, is "vastly overrated", and I think that the Ozone layer and the Earths magnetic fields could just agree with me here.
There have never before been such proliferations of bovine herds, either, creating so much gas...the dinosaurs were bad, but they can't hold a candle to all that farting cattle. The fact that grazing land has been gouged out of the Planets "Lungs" is stupifying in it's blind-leading-the-blind idiocy.
Do a bit of research, if you like, on the King of Spain, and the huge sheep musters that he used to organise in the Middle Ages, for an idea of how idiot Humans and their grazing, farting animals can turn arable land into arid waste.
We won't even touch on all those drums of radioactive waste rotting open in the Marinas Trench, just near the Gulf Stream, or the sheer piles of lethal shit that our "vastly overrated" presence has left as little surprises for hundreds of future generations. Oh, how they will curse us our greedy, shortsighted, blinkered HUGELY EGOCENTRIC nihlism.

BTW, it's not just about Americans, in case you have the wrong idea about my posts....although your consumption of the Planets resources is "vastly underrated"....
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post #60 of 3774 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 10:52 PM
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Hey I have an idea - let's do something, anything! Let's finally adopt Kyoto - that would help wouldn't it? Well, no, that would actually hurt yet you still hear the idiots harping about the US lack of participation!


In July 2005, the United States led Australia, China, India, Japan, and South Korea in forming an international partnership to address climate change in a scientifically based and economically sustainable manner.

The transformation in U.S. global leadership was punctuated in November 2005, when British Prime Minister Tony Blair declared Kyoto and any other treaty demanding mandatory emissions cuts dead. According to Blair, mandatory emissions cuts are implausible unless technology is developed to make emissions reductions economically sustainable and until mandatory cuts apply to such nations as China and India.


Shortcomings Evident


Why did this dramatic transformation occur? There are many reasons. Despite the self-righteous statements of European Union leaders, the EU is failing miserably in its attempt to cut greenhouse gas emissions and is far short of its Kyoto goals. At the same time, through public- and private-sector cooperation exemplified by a $100 million grant from ExxonMobil to the Stanford University-led Global Climate and Energy Project, the United States has cut its greenhouse gas emissions every year since its 2001 rejection of the Kyoto Protocol.

Over the past three years, EU carbon dioxide emissions have risen (despite a tumbling economy), while U.S. carbon dioxide emissions have fallen (during a period of steady economic growth).

While the EU scores public relations points by vowing carbon dioxide cuts that never reach fruition, the U.S. has invested in and reaped the benefits of new technologies that, for example, dramatically reduce emissions of methane, a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

As the European economy stumbles under its Kyoto burden, energy-intensive industry is relocating to China, where the government refuses to cut greenhouse gas emissions and where the economy sizzles. As Blair and others have come to realize, all the promised cuts in European greenhouse gas emissions will fail to make any dent in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels if cuts in Western emissions are outweighed by corresponding increases in Chinese emissions.


EU Economy Endangered


The final blow to Europe's Kyoto delusions may have been the November 7 release of an international study predicting substantial harm to European economies that abide by their Kyoto promises. Putting still more pressure on the already-reeling European economy, Kyoto would spark an approximately 25 percent jump in electricity prices and a roughly 2 percent reduction in gross domestic product if Europe were to meet its reduction targets, which it has yet to do. Any additional cuts required after Kyoto expires in 2012 would be even more punitive economically.

Tony Blair and other world leaders have come to realize that if you love "That 70s Show," wait until you see a rerun of "That 70s Economy" throughout Europe if the EU fails to follow Bush's lead on global warming.



Bush Was Right to Reject Kyoto 'Fiasco'

George Bush suffered heavy international criticism for rejecting the Kyoto Protocol, but it now appears he was exactly right: The treaty is a "fiasco,” Forbes magazine declares. The treaty was negotiated in 1997 as a way to slow global warming, and formally took effect in February, without U.S. participation. The Clinton administration agreed to the protocol, but the Senate refused to ratify it, in part because developing countries that were major polluters and trade competitors, particularly China and India, refused to participate in the Kyoto accord. So right now "Kyoto is essentially a western European proposition,” Forbes reports. But "China and India together send more tons of carbon into the atmosphere than all of western Europe combined, and the U.S. accounts for more than China and India together.” Therefore it has become "painfully obvious that the treaty was a fiasco,” Dan Seligman writes in Forbes. Even Britain’s Tony Blair, a supporter of the protocol, seemed to admit defeat for the treaty when in a recent speech at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York, he conceded: "No country is going to cut growth” – which is the only known way to cut emissions, according to Forbes.

Ironically, even western Europe is not reducing emissions. According to the protocol, western European nations must reduce their emissions to levels 8 percent lower than those of 1990. But in the years since the treaty was negotiated, carbon dioxide levels increased by 7 percent in France, 11 percent in Italy and 29 percent in Spain. Overall, the increase for western Europe was 5.4 percent.

"After many years of European chatter about the monstrous evil perpetrated by George W. Bush in rejecting Kyoto,” Forbes concludes, "it is of possible interest that the increase in carbon emissions in the U.S. during those years was slightly lower (4.7 percent).

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