But frankly, that's perfectly fine with me as I've got to see only about 1/10th of the drivel our non-riding troll posts - that's when someone quotes him.
Dezmo's been quoting me all day long so those who have me on iggy got to read everything. Hopefully they weren't Spies fans.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Back to the OP question. Could be an issue of size. Guys like Hayden and Spies are dieting to get lighter and fit better on these bikes. I wonder how much muscle mass and consequently overall stamina they are losing in order to ride these bikes whereas guys like Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa can remain a healthier weight retaining all their stamina.
Good question. I continue to feel strongly that the weight rules for bikes should be INCLUSIVE of the rider, so that the lightweight pipsqueak riders may have to add ballast to get their total bike + rider weight up to a minimum level that allows the heavier riders to compete on even terms.
It doesn;t seem right to me that the naturally bigger/heavier guys have such an acceleration and braking disadvantage against the lightweight Pedrobots, with 25KG (55 lbs) difference between the riders. Imagine the difference in overall speed and finishing positions if Dani had to sling a 55lb lead weight on his bike, or if Ben could remove 20KG (44 lbs) off his bike just to equal Pedrobot's overall weight with bike?
It would seem much more fair if the rules allowed for the current bike wet weight plus 70KG for rider and gear, and everyone would have to add ballast to reach that minimum. Then, all but 2 bikes/riders would have to add some amount of ballast, and 2 riders would be very slightly heavier than the minimum weight, and all bikes/riders would have similar overall weight, to prevent the inequality that exists today for the heavier guys like Edwards, Hayden, Spies, Petrucci, Hayden, Hernandez and even Rossi.
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
The 1000cc bikes are making loads of horsepower now, I'm not sure it matters as much anymore. Rossi certainly wasn't having any problems on the straight at Mugello.
The 1000cc bikes are making loads of horsepower now, I'm not sure it matters as much anymore. Rossi certainly wasn't having any problems on the straight at Mugello.
Weight isn't that big of an issue when we're talking about who is going to pay for the latest Brembo calipers on a satellite bike. Dovi bucked up and paid for the latest Brembo's and Cal was like a fireman at a local coin toss panhandling.
Everyone is crying about the single tire manufacturer but we basically have the same thing for brakes and suspension (albeit willingly). Almost everyone is chosing to use Ohlins and Brembos now so it's not very different than the Bridgestone situation we're currently involved in. I guess it all boils down to who is effected by the equipment at the moment. Horsepower will be the buzzword of the weekend and then next week it will be tires again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Good question. I continue to feel strongly that the weight rules for bikes should be INCLUSIVE of the rider, so that the lightweight pipsqueak riders may have to add ballast to get their total bike + rider weight up to a minimum level that allows the heavier riders to compete on even terms.
It doesn;t seem right to me that the naturally bigger/heavier guys have such an acceleration and braking disadvantage against the lightweight Pedrobots, with 25KG (55 lbs) difference between the riders. Imagine the difference in overall speed and finishing positions if Dani had to sling a 55lb lead weight on his bike, or if Ben could remove 20KG (44 lbs) off his bike just to equal Pedrobot's overall weight with bike?
It would seem much more fair if the rules allowed for the current bike wet weight plus 70KG for rider and gear, and everyone would have to add ballast to reach that minimum. Then, all but 2 bikes/riders would have to add some amount of ballast, and 2 riders would be very slightly heavier than the minimum weight, and all bikes/riders would have similar overall weight, to prevent the inequality that exists today for the heavier guys like Edwards, Hayden, Spies, Petrucci, Hayden, Hernandez and even Rossi.
It would be very hard to come up with a formula that would result in parity.
It isn't a pound for pound solution as the heavier rider has the luxury of more moveable ballast.
I'm not saying heavier is better but there are times when rider ballast can be used in a positive way. I know that is a very small advantage that in no way counters the overall advantage of being lighter but the ability to put more weight on the front or back with less rider movement may be a bigger equalizer than any of us will ever understand.
It would be very hard to come up with a formula that would result in parity.
It isn't a pound for pound solution as the heavier rider has the luxury of more moveable ballast.
I'm not saying heavier is better but there are times when rider ballast can be used in a positive way. I know that is a very small advantage that in no way counters the overall advantage of being lighter but the ability to put more weight on the front or back with less rider movement may be a bigger equalizer than any of us will ever understand.
On the other hand the ballast weight can be placed anywhere on the bike to suit the package - unlike a rider.
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
I though MotoGP was the pinnacle of Motorcycle racing Having a spec tyre rule is one step to close to production racing and now you want weight handicaps.
Why spend £XXXXX making the bike out of unobtainable materials then stick some fat f**k on it.
The are advantages and disadvantages to being small or large it's down to the sportsman to make the most of what he has.
Take Usain Bolt apparently he's not
designed to be a sprinter too tall too this too that the guy is still the fasted guy out there he may not get out the blocks as fast as some due to his size but he's knuckled down and built on what he's supplied with. If weight is such an issue why hasn't Danny won more infact I seem to remember when he first announced he was going to ride a Motogp there were opinions that he was too small and couldn't hold on muscle a bike around blah blah blah now...........
I though MotoGP was the pinnacle of Motorcycle racing Having a spec tyre rule is one step to close to production racing and now you want weight handicaps.
Why spend £XXXXX making the bike out of unobtainable materials then stick some fat f**k on it.
The are advantages and disadvantages to being small or large it's down to the sportsman to make the most of what he has.
Take Usain Bolt apparently he's not
designed to be a sprinter too tall too this too that the guy is still the fasted guy out there he may not get out the blocks as fast as some due to his size but he's knuckled down and built on what he's supplied with. If weight is such an issue why hasn't Danny won more infact I seem to remember when he first announced he was going to ride a Motogp there were opinions that he was too small and couldn't hold on muscle a bike around blah blah blah now...........
Isn't it a rather inane argument in terms of pushback on my suggestion, because all the bikes currently have a weight limit anyway. Some riders just get an automatic weight advantage due to smaller stature....which is why you see Danny shoot to the front from the grid as he does time and again, and why he therefor wins positions due to his size rather than actual riding ability.
Wouldn't you rather see less of an automatic performance disadvantage due to rider weight, and instead, see more of an equivalence that allows a better representation of the rider's skill, as opposed to his natural size?
Yes, truly great larger riders can get results, and do, but they are doing that by overcoming the inherent disadvantage they have to start with. Personally, I'd like to see them compete on a more equal footing, and not be inherently disadvantaged by extra mass.
I mean, we're not talking about a few pounds/kilos here, we talking of disparities of up to 55 lbs! That's half the weight of Danny!
That's a huge disadvantge for the heavier riders. And we're also not talking about overweight, fat, unfit guys being the heavier riders.....the heaviest rider weighs 167 lbs.
But compared to Danny's 112 lbs, that's a huge difference in the ability of the rider to compete in acceleration and braking.
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
Isn't it a rather inane argument in terms of pushback on my suggestion, because all the bikes currently have a weight limit anyway. Some riders just get an automatic weight advantage due to smaller stature....which is why you see Danny shoot to the front from the grid as he does time and again, and why he therefor wins positions due to his size rather than actual riding ability.
Wouldn't you rather see less of an automatic performance disadvantage due to rider weight, and instead, see more of an equivalence that allows a better representation of the rider's skill, as opposed to his natural size?
Yes, truly great larger riders can get results, and do, but they are doing that by overcoming the inherent disadvantage they have to start with. Personally, I'd like to see them compete on a more equal footing, and not be inherently disadvantaged by extra mass.
I mean, we're not talking about a few pounds/kilos here, we talking of disparities of up to 55 lbs! That's half the weight of Danny!
That's a huge disadvantge for the heavier riders. And we're also not talking about overweight, fat, unfit guys being the heavier riders.....the heaviest rider weighs 167 lbs.
But compared to Danny's 112 lbs, that's a huge difference in the ability of the rider to compete in acceleration and braking.
Scott Redding is one of the biggest riders in Moto2 and is always whining about not being able to show his talent on the smaller bikes etc etc. So are you going to move the weight penalties down to the smaller classes where weight is an even bigger disadvantage? At what point do we get to a spot where we are just leveling everything so everyone can play? Not everyone is cut out to play all sports.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Scott Redding is one of the biggest riders in Moto2 and is always whining about not being able to show his talent on the smaller bikes etc etc. So are you going to move the weight penalties down to the smaller classes where weight is an even bigger disadvantage? At what point do we get to a spot where we are just leveling everything so everyone can play? Not everyone is cut out to play all sports.
I don't usually respond to anything that comes from the Troll, but as I saw your quote of it, and it's a fair question, all I can say on this is that it's clearly not a case of "everyone" can play, on the basis of weight variances.
There would still be an overall weight limit. It could still ensure that parity only occurs for reasonably light guys, by setting the weight limit to assume a rider mass of say 70 KG (or 65 KG, if you prefer). This means that a 100KG fatty is never going to gain parity with Danny weighing half his weight. This rule would not suddenly exclude or include other racers, necessarily.
But it does mean that a fit, professional, racer who happens to have a bigger, heavier, body type - like Ben, Colin, Rossi and others......will not be as disadvantaged as they are today against the truly tiny guys.
The faster guys will get to the top. The faster, bigger, guys will simply no longer be AUTOMATICALLY DISADVANTAGED as they are today.
I don't see that as silly, or pointless at all. This is supposed to be a RIDERs Championship, not a WEIGHTWATCHERS championship where the tiny little runts get added benefit for nothing other than their size.
Anyway, this discussion just shows why Rules Committees can hardly ever gain concensus, and why strong-minded individuals tend to have the take the bull by the balls and lead the pack....
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
Could be an issue of size. Guys like Hayden and Spies are dieting to get lighter and fit better on these bikes. I wonder how much muscle mass and consequently overall stamina they are losing in order to ride these bikes whereas guys like Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa can remain a healthier weight retaining all their stamina.
That's what I had been thinking since last year. If you look at pictures of Ben from his AMA and WSBK days and pictures of him right now he seems to have shrunk. Since he didn't have an ounce of body fat on him I wonder how much muscle mass he lost.
Losing so much muscle mass isn't healthy: he appears to have lost a lot of stamina (as was more than apparent at the Mugello) and to be physically weaker. If before he could muscle the bike around at will he seems he's really struggling after five-six laps right now.
I wonder how the people at Yamaha are dealing with this, if perhaps they are trying to talk him into going to a specialist to convince him to put some muscles back on. It's obvious this different training and eating regime isn't doing him one once of good and could even hurt his health in the long run (at the Mugello he suffered from blurred vision... never a good sign).
At this point it's pretty obvious Ben should at least consider going back to his old physical shape since he's going nowhere in such a weakened state and could end up ruining his career.
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Shame on me, my heart is black.
At this point it's pretty obvious Ben just ruined his career by bailing on a factory ride.
This what matter most in Bens life not gaining weight. I think Ben busted arse to get the ride and after getting it and collecting the money has given up and will take a lessor ride with less pressure now he has bank
It would be very hard to come up with a formula that would result in parity.
It isn't a pound for pound solution as the heavier rider has the luxury of more moveable ballast.
I'm not saying heavier is better but there are times when rider ballast can be used in a positive way. I know that is a very small advantage that in no way counters the overall advantage of being lighter but the ability to put more weight on the front or back with less rider movement may be a bigger equalizer than any of us will ever understand.
I can't imagine it is going to be much of an issue. IRL has done it for year. It was the one thing Danica Patrick had going for her. Also in drag racing it was also an issue when A. Seeley used to race.
Even if the rider is lighter the placement of ballast still favours them because the mfg can place it where it has the least impact.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
2011 BMW S1000RR
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
The 1000cc bikes are making loads of horsepower now, I'm not sure it matters as much anymore. Rossi certainly wasn't having any problems on the straight at Mugello.
While I agree the performance of the bikes does not require any more bhp in terms of tire wear less weight is a factor.
In terms of the riders, the ones forced to lose weight and run even lighter than their lighter contemporaries are still disadvantaged in terms of physical strength relatively.
__________________
2006 BMW HP2
2011 Husqvarna TE630
2011 BMW S1000RR
Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
This what matter most in Bens life not gaining weight. I think Ben busted arse to get the ride and after getting it and collecting the money has given up and will take a lessor ride with less pressure now he has bank
I don't think it was money related, Ben was a millionaire at 18.
It might have something to do with Lorenzo and being the 2nd rider. It's Lorenzos team, maybe Ben thought he would be an equal part of it. Like the pic with Lorenzo saying....don't worry Ben, you'll be alright!! Your teammate the 1st person you want to beat. Maybe some headgame has Ben out of it
Horsepower will be the buzzword of the weekend and then next week it will be tires again.
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