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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2012, 03:47 PM
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I agree with the sentiment of Banda's posts.

Trackday riders as a whole are sissies and whine and cry if someone gets a little too close to them let alone actually makes contact. As an instructor I have heard and seen way more of it than I care to discuss. 15 years ago if you were at a trackday you were usually a racer trying to get some extra track time. Now it has turned to a social event for whole families to come play at the track and have a good recreational time just like it was Disneyland. They think because we shove the safety speech down their throat at the riders meeting that all the inherent danger of riding a motorcycle at high velocities has somehow just disappeared from the activity.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:38 PM
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I agree with the sentiment of Banda's posts.

Trackday riders as a whole are sissies and whine and cry if someone gets a little too close to them let alone actually makes contact. As an instructor I have heard and seen way more of it than I care to discuss. 15 years ago if you were at a trackday you were usually a racer trying to get some extra track time. Now it has turned to a social event for whole families to come play at the track and have a good recreational time just like it was Disneyland. They think because we shove the safety speech down their throat at the riders meeting that all the inherent danger of riding a motorcycle at high velocities has somehow just disappeared from the activity.
I agree with some of Banda's comments as well but road racing and motocross is apples and oranges in my opinion. One is not better than the other and each requires some different skills even if many skills cross over. I don't get the dirt VS pavement mentality.
It's all good and most would agree that they are different enough to require different rules.
The incident in question was related to a racing incident so why even bring trackdays into it?
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:41 PM
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Unintentional contact is part of racing. In this situation, however, he was intentionally ramming into another racer repeatedly. That should get a racer DQ'd.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:13 PM
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Now it has turned to a social event for whole families to come play at the track and have a good recreational time just like it Disneyland.activity.
I like this statement

The last trackday I did was a talladega 11-10 with STT. I was all but run off because some slow ass who was in friggin "A" class went and told Mark I was passing dangerous I was not but when I'm turning minute flats and he is turning 1:10's at best and I've lapped you 5 times in a session already it might appear I was BUT get your ass back in novice if you don't like it. I pleaded my case and being Mark knew how I rode it was brushed under the door. Asshole though was still able to give me the finger the rest of the day everytime I passed him. Oh and I must add asshole that day was on a big shiny new red ducati with corsa leathers and he looked the business but he could not ride at all. Prolly still pinched up from signing the check to buy the pos.

As for the video, I say let it go the kid will get his soon enough in the form of a ass busting whether by himself or someone else.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:56 PM
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Funny,

Do this in MGP and you're a hero; whine about it, and you're a sissy. Guess many figure the paycheck warrants a little more rubbing and racing in MGP.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:21 AM
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Funny,

Do this in MGP and you're a hero; whine about it, and you're a sissy. Guess many figure the paycheck warrants a little more rubbing and racing in MGP.
Very true! In Portugal in 2006 Elias roughed up Rossi and won the race. Rossi protested wildly about the rough racing and those 5 pts he lost to a more aggressive Elias cost him the championship. Fast forward a few years and those who are protesting against a dangerous Simoncelli are called whiners and complainers. The double standard is very odd, if not obvious.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:49 AM
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Very true! In Portugal in 2006 Elias roughed up Rossi and won the race. Rossi protested wildly about the rough racing and those 5 pts he lost to a more aggressive Elias cost him the championship. Fast forward a few years and those who are protesting against a dangerous Simoncelli are called whiners and complainers. The double standard is very odd, if not obvious.

Just when I think it cant get any worse, some people find a way to reach a new low

Does every thought, every subject and every reason in your mind circle around Rossi -

Who hurt you? talk to daddy - LOL
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:53 AM
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Just when I think it cant get any worse, some people find a way to reach a new low

Does every thought, every subject and every reason in your mind circle around Rossi -

Who hurt you? talk to daddy - LOL
Dale eluded to it and I backed it up with a fact. Sorry brah!

Sorry everyone. Lets collectively ignore angry Kam and we'll all move along happily like we were all week.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:15 PM
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Dale eluded to it and I backed it up with a fact. Sorry brah!

Sorry everyone. Lets collectively ignore angry Kam and we'll all move along happily like we were all week.
Facts are facts but when you do this fact thing about Rossi it just looks and sound weird TO ME like you are haveing a HUGE HARD ON doing it
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:21 PM
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There is some confusion here from my point of view.
Professional racers are just that. Getting paid to take enormous risks and win championships. They factor their risk tolerance into the choice to race on that level, world, national, or regional.

Club racers also have a similar calculus since they choose to RACE. Some will take more risks than others. That is their choice to make, risks and all.

Track day riders are neither of the above.
Some maybe sissies I don't know. Certainly they are on track to have a good time and enjoy themselves, not win anything or beat anybody. If a track day is a family event for some that is their choice.
Now, having riders in the advanced groups that do not belong there is a problem that has to do with that organization, some are good at this others are not. Having riders who do not fully understand the risks inherent with any kind of high speed track riding is hard to address by the organization if the rider is in willful ignorance of the risks, hence the rider meetings emphasis on safety.
It is the responsibility of both the rider and the track day provider to move riders into and out of the appropriate groups even if the rider objects based on a false sense of speed created by ego. It is also the responsibility of the rider to only ride with those organizations he or she feels encourages a similar mind set and point of view they share.

I used to race, now I do track days. In most organizations advanced riders and racers get along fine. Racers tone it down a bit, riders accept close passes. There have been groups I have ridden with once and not gone back, there is another where, even as an advanced rider, I have to tone it down to fit into their rules ( no racers). Ego should never factor into the rider on a track day even though it does. Control riders are not suppose to have their own little skirmishes on track, and management should move riders that are in above their heads to a slower group.

Of course all that doesn't always happen.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:28 PM
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Control riders are not suppose to have their own little skirmishes on track





This poor guy didn't even know what the hell was happening, he's out minding his own business when a train of instructors comes blitzing by at the speed of heat. As I recall though he claimed it was inspiring at the time although I think he told me that a week or two later when I saw him again at either TGP or Road Atlanta...
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:32 AM
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Posting with a cooler head:

The video didn't show me anything I haven't seen at a good supermoto, TT, dirt track or MX race. It didn't lead me to be angry at any participant. There may well be something else that happened on that day between those riders that better explains why I should be shocked at someone's racing behavior. I'll grant that. I just failed to see it in the video.

Some of my bad attitude comes from experience I've had with my local track day/amateur road racing organization. I joined thinking I could bring my race promoting and organizing experience for the benefit of the whole operation. They didn't want to hear a single f'ing thing I had to say, and dismissed all my suggestions based on (and I shit you not) my track day lap times, their disdain for anything that isn't road racing, and even the brand of safety gear I choose to wear.

More of my bad attitude comes from being a supermoto race promoter and organizer, and seeing how the guys who come from roadracing are the whiniest, most excuse-making, least family oriented, blame-it-on-everyone else embarrassing dipshits in the paddock. And they don't win, whether there's any dirt or jumps or not.

At the amateur level, road racing is almost as invisible to the public, almost as inaccessible to the potentially interested rider, as observed trials. Not because it's a super difficult sport, but because the people who are into it are scared to compete with anyone who can really ride a motorcycle. They like that you can essentially "buy" an obscure amateur title by showing up with tires at six locations in a year. Those guys are in charge, and they don't want it to change. They don't want it to grow. They are inbred in the figurative sense: stunted by their lack of exposure to the rest of the motorcycle racing world.

I have a historic TT track less than 15 miles from my front door. Local racing. Think I can crack the top 5 in the Vet 40+ class? Hell no. Wanna know why? Because Joe Kopp, or Johnny Murphree might show up and clean everyone's clock. Also, I am neither fast, nor aggressive. I admit it. If you lean on me in a corner, I will cave in an instant and let your ass right on by. But by no means am I going to go cry to the officials about it. I've lived through enough contact to know that it's part of the sport, and I'll be hanged if I'm going to moan like a road racer about a bump or a shove in a race. Someone on here called it the other day - that picture of me on my daughter's TT-R 50? That IS my most menacing look.

But I know that it's not the sport I participate in that makes me a man - and it's not my results or lap times either. It's the way I conduct myself. Road racers should take the hint, and look outside their little corner of the sport for examples of what it is to be a man. Do them some good, I reckon.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
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This poor guy didn't even know what the hell was happening, he's out minding his own business when a train of instructors comes blitzing by at the speed of heat. As I recall though he claimed it was inspiring at the time although I think he told me that a week or two later when I saw him again at either TGP or Road Atlanta...
lol this happened to me at my first track day. mid corner I had 3 CRs inside/ outside and I swear over the top of me. they apologized after the session, but I chalked it up to riding on a track. wasn't a big deal, scared the shit out of me, but I managed to keep my cool enough not to crash or take anybody else out.
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:51 PM
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I used to LOVE the CRs and fast guys blowing past me....made me realize how friggin' slow I was on corner entry. I think I picked up a second in ONE session at Gingerman some years ago, just watching Jason (of the late, great, Section 8 gang) on a Duc come past me like I was going backwards between T8 and T10.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:06 PM
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Hasn't that happened to all of us? I remember going "hoooly sh1t!!!!" as the control riders buzzed by... After the pounding in my chest ceased I probably putted around through the next few corners and then went "wow! That was cool!!"

Coming back to the topic, my major reservation with your comments Banda is there is way too much generalization on your behalf.... I think you will find douches and great sportsman in both forms of the sport at the amatuer levels... I have met and ridden with a great set of guys at track days and on dirt with my kids... There are also some jerks on both sides.

I do think I am personally most comfortable banging around and getting in the mix on a Supermoto track... The speeds are a lot lower for contact compared to sportbikes and I am not having the rear wheel of guys fly by my helmet like in MX. I think comfort in banging fairings is inversly proportional to your level of possible injury.
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:31 PM
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Hasn't that happened to all of us? I remember going "hoooly sh1t!!!!" as the control riders buzzed by...

injury.


ahh...no it has not. Yes it happened in my first WERA expert race at Barber back in '04 but it was Larry Pegram and Mike Smith doing the passing.

I don't usually get passed at trackdays unless some young race god shows up
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Old 02-18-2012, 11:56 PM
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ahh...no it has not. Yes it happened in my first WERA expert race at Barber back in '04 but it was Larry Pegram and Mike Smith doing the passing.

I don't usually get passed at trackdays unless some young race god shows up
So you never were a novice and went straight to expert racer? Wow!
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:25 AM
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So you never were a novice and went straight to expert racer? Wow!
Pretty much but I don't remember "control riders" when I was a novice with WERA
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:27 AM
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More of my bad attitude comes from being a supermoto race promoter and organizer, and seeing how the guys who come from roadracing are the whiniest, most excuse-making, least family oriented, blame-it-on-everyone else embarrassing dipshits in the paddock. And they don't win, whether there's any dirt or jumps or not.

At the amateur level, road racing is almost as invisible to the public, almost as inaccessible to the potentially interested rider, as observed trials. Not because it's a super difficult sport, but because the people who are into it are scared to compete with anyone who can really ride a motorcycle. They like that you can essentially "buy" an obscure amateur title by showing up with tires at six locations in a year. Those guys are in charge, and they don't want it to change. They don't want it to grow. They are inbred in the figurative sense: stunted by their lack of exposure to the rest of the motorcycle racing world.

I have a historic TT track less than 15 miles from my front door. Local racing. Think I can crack the top 5 in the Vet 40+ class? Hell no. Wanna know why? Because Joe Kopp, or Johnny Murphree might show up and clean everyone's clock. Also, I am neither fast, nor aggressive. I admit it. If you lean on me in a corner, I will cave in an instant and let your ass right on by. But by no means am I going to go cry to the officials about it. I've lived through enough contact to know that it's part of the sport, and I'll be hanged if I'm going to moan like a road racer about a bump or a shove in a race. Someone on here called it the other day - that picture of me on my daughter's TT-R 50? That IS my most menacing look.

But I know that it's not the sport I participate in that makes me a man - and it's not my results or lap times either. It's the way I conduct myself. Road racers should take the hint, and look outside their little corner of the sport for examples of what it is to be a man. Do them some good, I reckon.
Sounds like you are whining and making excuses for not having fun at the track.

Over the eight years that I have been riding motorcycles at the track, I have had lots of fun, learned a great deal and made some great friends. In fact, one of my best friends I met here on Speedzilla. Racing has taken things to another level for me. I trust the people I race ag in my club. We have a unique bond in that way. I challenge you to find a better group of guys.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:02 PM
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Wow ..... look who won the 200!!
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