"The CEO of Dorna is positive he can convince the manufacturers of the advantages these changes will bring: "Manufacturers are aware of the situation, not least because the crisis is affecting them too," he said. "The problem is that, for them, the priority has always been the technological development. And this development has made the cost of the bikes too high, which until now have been offered on lease. On the other hand, this technology that has made the motorcycles running up front lightning-fast has also created an issue with competition, because they are so superior."
"I think we will be able to resolve these issues by consensus," he continued. "If not, we have ideas, such as the introduction of a spec ECU or a rev limit, which could be launched as early as 2013, a year in which the Championship will be completely different compared to 2012."
"The establishment of the single unit, according to the manufacturers, would be the biggest limiter to continued technological development. We are looking at what the best way of limiting the performance—and thereby costs—will be, to ensure that a satellite team will be able to obtain bikes at a maximum of one million Euros per season, whether through selling, through a long term leasing commitment, or through CRTs, although this cost seems excessive to me for a CRT."
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
"Welcome to NASCAR" [Country music plays softly in the background]
This is not a matter of keeping costs down as much as a matter of dumbing the series down to provide more TV-friendly entertainment. If Honda, Ducati and Yamaha want to spend gazillions to be competitive, let them. If they want to cut costs I am sure they'll work out something between themselves.
The age of blokes winning races on bikes built in a shed with no budget is gone and is not coming back.
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Shame on me, my heart is black.
Unfortunately, what's not coming back under the old rules, is a grid full of bikes.
You already said it....only Ducati, Honda and Yamaha left. No Suzuki, no Kawasaki, no BMW, no Aprilia, etc, etc, etc.
Ducati would likely not continue indefinitely either, so that leaves 4-6 bikes with Hondas and Yamahas badges racing each other? Great fun.
Oh, and Nascar may be laughable to us, but it's the most successful national series, drawing the biggest crowds in the entire world, by far.
I think a spec ECU is a fair enough decision given the lack of bikes if nothing changes. It's NOT as if though there aren't or haven't been MANY technology restricting rules in MGP already. It's NEVER been "open" to new and exciting technologies.
Or we'd be seeing turbocharged motors making 300+ HP.
Or V5 motors again.
Or directed injection 2-strokes.
The list goes on and on....
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
it's already dead, with the previous rules/costs. how much worse can it get?
I fully understand the view that the class is the prototype class and should be open to anyone to bring the best they have...the issue is, it's not working. I'd rather watch a Moto2 race with 30-40 riders on similar performing machines than 4-5 bikes on Yamahas and Hondas in some exclusive little band of very fast, but very unexciting racing.
I agree, it's a step backwards from the technology perspective, but for the actual RACING? I can't see the 2011 rules doing anything to improve the situation....
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
Yeah, don't we all!
Fantastic racing, all without all the electronic aides and rider intervention stuff. In fact, even less electronic ECU functions than what a "spec" level Motec ECU would provide today.
__________________ Old Baldy
Ducati 996 with hot 999 motor
Triumph Tiger 955i
Kawasaki KLR650 OB's Ride Reports
Oh, and Nascar may be laughable to us, but it's the most successful national series, drawing the biggest crowds in the entire world, by far.
.
The race attendance of Nascar might exceed F1, but the TV audience of F1 is closer to 10x that of Nascar. I read where the average TV cowd for Nascar was 40 million viewers, F1 was 400 million worldwide.
Look what the re-structuring has done to moto2..it's some of the best racing on the world level! I'm all for it, let's face it bike technology will continue to develope.
Unfortunately, what's not coming back under the old rules, is a grid full of bikes.
The grid lost 2 bikes in 10 years? Why do you people keep saying the grid shrunk so much? WSBK grid shrunk 30+% and you guys think it's fantastic. The grid is smaller compared to other series so the injured riders are noticed more. That's all that has happened.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Look what the re-structuring has done to moto2..it's some of the best racing on the world level! I'm all for it, let's face it bike technology will continue to develope.
So let me get this straight. We already have a spec series, but you want ANOTHER one at the expense of a prototype series? Genius!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
I think you are combining three very different things. The racing is horribly boring and it's turned into the Honda cup much like AMA during the Yosh cup days. As a race fan I don't care what they are developing as long as the racing is good much like the 2 stroke days. If they eliminate the factory bikes and runall CRT the racing will be better and encourage other teams to join. Grid size, while the grid has only dropped 2 bikes, the grid was anemic before!! It's not getting better and this next year will be the deciding year for many of those teams. Bike development, does it only occur in Motogp? I don't think so, in fact many manufacturers don't think so which is the reason they don't run race teams.
I think you are combining three very different things. The racing is horribly boring and it's turned into the Honda cup much like AMA during the Yosh cup days.
This is so telling of what the real problem is now. Honda had ONE RIDER that dominated and without him Yamaha would've won for the 4th YEAR IN A ROW. Honda had ONE dominant year and now you're whining that it's the Honda Cup? Why wasn't ANYONE complaining that it was the Yamaha Cup the prev 3 years? Oh, because Rossi was competitive those years. Now that he's buried in the pack and other riders are on good machines it's now a Honda Cup? No one on here was complaining how the racing was boring while Rossi was running away with Championships but now it is? I'm sure the fanboys will call me a hater, but I would challenge them to answer my questions above honestly.
The crowds were solid globally so MotoGP racing is still strong in that regard. And Kawi is the only major manufacturer to not field a team so I'm not sure what you are saying when you say manufacturers aren't racing. Prototype racing has more development for the manufacturers than AMA and BSB combined. I doubt any technological advances from those series are making it onto production bikes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Let's not make this into another of your anti-rossi threads, stay on track with this one. The series has turned into the Honda cup and was last year as well. The point, Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati are the only manufacturers left playing in the game and if I am starting a team and have three options of bikes, it's fair to say the Honda is the best package on the grid..probably has been for the past year or 2. The Yamaha is good, not great, and the Ducati is and has been sporadic at best. Kawasaki and Suzuki are gone, and Ducati may be after this season. Let's look at the Superbikes/superstock series, Yamaha, Honda, Ducati, Aprilia, Suzuki, KTM, BMW, kawasaki, and correct me if I am wrong MV is appearing at a few rounds? Bike development happens within a lot of racing AMA and BSB included, motogp is just one of those places.
I'm not sure I see Moto GP as a Honda Cup either.
The other brands all invested what they wanted or could. The results do not indicate an overall dominance of Honda over the last few seasons, quite the opposite in fact.
Also lumping in World Superbike with Super Stock would seem to allow the smaller classes to be included with Moto GP. In which case there are more manufactures involved.
I am not saying the racing has been good in MGP. It has in Moto 2 though.
I am not saying the formula in Moto 2 is what I like I don't.
I personally think the prototype class should be just that and the WSBK production based racing should be what it is. To have 2 distinct race series claiming to be World Championships with similar displacement rules is confusing.
The series has turned into the Honda cup and was last year as well.
You may be the only person on the Earth that thinks it was the Honda Cup when Yamaha won the prev 3 seasons and Ducati the season before that. How anyone can think that is shocking. It really is. Especially considering that Yamaha would've won their 4th straight title if Casey Stoner wasn't born. If anything, Stoner stopped the Yamaha Cup. Post of the year and we're not even out of January yet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
I'm not sure I see Moto GP as a Honda Cup either.
The other brands all invested what they wanted or could. The results do not indicate an overall dominance of Honda over the last few seasons, quite the opposite in fact.
Also lumping in World Superbike with Super Stock would seem to allow the smaller classes to be included with Moto GP. In which case there are more manufactures involved.
I am not saying the racing has been good in MGP. It has in Moto 2 though.
I am not saying the formula in Moto 2 is what I like I don't.
I personally think the prototype class should be just that and the WSBK production based racing should be what it is. To have 2 distinct race series claiming to be World Championships with similar displacement rules is confusing.
Not sure what the answer is.
Umm, I think we are saying the same thing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat44
Look what the re-structuring has done to moto2..it's some of the best racing on the world level! I'm all for it, let's face it bike technology will continue to develope.
You may be the only person on the Earth that thinks it was the Honda Cup when Yamaha won the prev 3 seasons and Ducati the season before that. How anyone can think that is shocking. It really is. Especially considering that Yamaha would've won their 4th straight title if Casey Stoner wasn't born. If anything, Stoner stopped the Yamaha Cup. Post of the year and we're not even out of January yet.
lol dont be so dramatic homie! Excluding your most favorite rider in the land and your least favorite rider in the land, Honda has only had 1 bike finish outside of the top 10 in the past 3 seasons. The Hondas last year were easily the best machines on the grid..again take the riders out of the argument..bring the performance a little closer and encourage other brands to start playing and let the riders ride.
lol dont be so dramatic homie! Excluding your most favorite rider in the land and your least favorite rider in the land, Honda has only had 1 bike finish outside of the top 10 in the past 3 seasons. The Hondas last year were easily the best machines on the grid..again take the riders out of the argument..bring the performance a little closer and encourage other brands to start playing and let the riders ride.
Here, lets try numbers since straight verbal logic isn't working. Honda won 11 races from 07-10. Ducati won 24 races during that same time period! Yet you still believe it's the Honda Cup? I won't mention the Yamaha numbers because your mind will really be blown.
I think you're confusing the number of Honda bikes on the grid with racing success. Their factory is able to support more satellite teams because of their size but over the past few years other manufacturers have been asked to lease bikes to teams and they said no. They were able to expand their presence on the grid and they said no. Why is that Honda's fault or a knock against them because they DO support racing?
The Honda presence in the paddock has kept MotoGP alive. If they pulled a Kawasaki and left, MotoGP would've been DEAD! And then you and everyone else would've called them the devil for killing MotoGP. We both know it would've went down like that. Instead, they get one dominant year and you want to kill them for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
So out of my entire post, the thing you disagree with is my labeling motogp the Honda Cup??? Based off of your last paragraph and your statement of Honda keeping motogp alive..I'd say you agree with me. And there-in lies the problem. Other brands aren't wanting to play as they can't afford (in the current state)to match the money Honda has. In the spirit of competition, lets get some more brands in the mix and create an even playing field at least more so than what exhists now.
MotoGP 2013 rules - possible direction
Especially considering that Yamaha would've won their 4th straight title if Casey Stoner wasn't born.
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