Yeah, Jimmy Leeward ate it big time. At least he didn't put it in the big crowd area which would have caused umpteen fatalities. So tragic and all races are cancelled.
Why are airshows so popular? There's at least 2 crashes a year? Can't they force them to not fly over the specators? I guess I don't understand the attraction. Sad the specators died.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
Forgive me... I'm so stunned that I'm holding by my emotions in to say this...
I've attended Reno Air Races every year like religion... this was the
worst crash ever and I fear the outcome... since 1964 planes have
augured and pilots have died at Reno but the killing of innocent lives
threatens to destroy the event once and for all just like the 1948
crash of Bill Odom's P51 "Beguine" No7 that crashed into the Laird
family home killing Bradley and Jeanne and their infant son David...
this single tragic crash and the lost of three innocent lives was the
reason the races ended in Cleveland Ohio... one of the P51's at the
last event was... believe it or not... Galloping Ghost owned by Steve
Beville...
Laird family home and "Beguine" No7 fire ball...
Bill Odom's P51...
It was not until 1964 that unlimited pylon racing made a comeback at a
remote desert site near Reno, Nevada, due to the determination of
enthusiast Bill Stead.
This is my best learned conjecture of the sequence of events that I
believe resulted in this sicking crash and lost of innocent life...
1 Malfunctioning trim tab starts high speed flutter...
2 Jimmy calls "mayday"
3 Trim tab fails... the elevator goes out of balance... flutter
increases to the degree that the forces shear the bolts on the
elevator connecting torque tube... (this happened before to Bob
"Hurricane" Hannah racing P51 Voo Doo Chile)
4 Unsecured elevator pitches 460 mph + aircraft up 12 Gs.... the force
is so great that it pops the tail wheel down to the retract position
and G Locks the pilot...
5 Jimmy is unconscious and not visible during the final moments of the
plunged to impart... engine sounds and propeller shock waves suggest
that throttle and prop where at max power settings...
Didn't we learn our lesson after the huge air show crash in Germany? I know this was a "air race", but come on!
Spectators have been killed at auto races, and probably motorcycle races too. Shall we just ban all forms of motor racing?
Last month a fan fell at a major league baseball game while reaching for a fly ball. Shall we just eliminate all spectator sports?
Last month a fan fell at a major league baseball game while reaching for a fly ball. Shall we just eliminate all spectator sports?
Where do you suggest the line be drawn?
Stupidity can't be banned. But endangering people by flying relics over their heads can. I don't see the allure of people saying "Hey, lets watch planes that were so good they were replaced 50 years ago fly over our heads!". I guess that's a sport for some people. Best of luck to them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
It's a tragedy but really people should be free to decide for themselves, we should be able to decide for ourselves to participate or not and attend or not. The only exception is local inhabitants for their sake just move the races.
I don't hold with the loss of life at the TT but wouldn't dream of imposing an ban on it, if you don't want to risk your life simple don't.
Stupidity can't be banned. But endangering people by flying relics over their heads can. I don't see the elure of people saying "Hey, lets watch planes that were so good they were replaced 50 years ago fly over our heads!". I guess that's a sport for some people. Best of luck to them.
For what it's worth, the planes are not allowed to fly over the crowd during an airshow, I believe it's the same in the air races. They can come from behind but not from the front or side to overfly a crowd. Thats the FAA rules. Statisticlly speaking your safer at an air show or air race than you are driving down some interstate. And, there are some of us who work on airplanes, have been doing so for over 20 yrs and love these "relics" as you call them. Stand next to one during eng start and if you don't feel the nostalgia then you'll never understand why some of us love them.
For what it's worth, the planes are not allowed to fly over the crowd during an airshow, I believe it's the same in the air races. They can come from behind but not from the front or side to overfly a crowd. Thats the FAA rules. Statisticlly speaking your safer at an air show or air race than you are driving down some interstate. And, there are some of us who work on airplanes, have been doing so for over 20 yrs and love these "relics" as you call them. Stand next to one during eng start and if you don't feel the nostalgia then you'll never understand why some of us love them.
Chris
Im pretty sure they arent allowed to overfly spectators at all, but crashing airplanes rarely go straight down. From what Ive read/seen, Galloping Ghost went well off-course during the crash.
And those 'relics' are probably more reliable than 60% of the cars and bikes on the road today. If everyone maintained their cars and bikes the way the FAA requires aircraft to be maintained (which includes replacing parts that have not failed, but are at their use limit), breakdowns would all but disappear, even with vehicles decades old. Since these planes are race vehicles, they are probably maintained at a level even higher than FAA regs require. Considering how many thousands of air races have been held, the fatality rate is far, far lower than that for road going vehicles.
Im pretty sure they arent allowed to overfly spectators at all, but crashing airplanes rarely go straight down. From what Ive read/seen, Galloping Ghost went well off-course during the crash.
And those 'relics' are probably more reliable than 60% of the cars and bikes on the road today. If everyone maintained their cars and bikes the way the FAA requires aircraft to be maintained (which includes replacing parts that have not failed, but are at their use limit), breakdowns would all but disappear, even with vehicles decades old. Since these planes are race vehicles, they are probably maintained at a level even higher than FAA regs require. Considering how many thousands of air races have been held, the fatality rate is far, far lower than that for road going vehicles.
The FAA rule about flying over a crowd is, and bear with me its been a few years since I've read the rule, the pilot cannot direct the energy of the aircraft directly at the crowd. It sure looks like they do fly over from behind here but, to be fair the planes might just be skirting the edge of the crowd, it's hard to estimate exact placement from the ground as fast as some of them move. I do know I have never seen one come straight towards the crowd and go over.
If you can stand within a feet feet of something like a P-47 or a F-4u upon start up or an engine trim check and not smile, then there is no explaining that would make you understand.
Stupidity can't be banned. But endangering people by flying relics over their heads can. I don't see the allure of people saying "Hey, lets watch planes that were so good they were replaced 50 years ago fly over our heads!". I guess that's a sport for some people. Best of luck to them.
True stupidity can be banned but there is nothing as stupid as wooden headed
advice especially one with the noblest of motives...
Warbirds are pure sex with wings... nothing you can buy will ever
replaced WW2 Warbirds... they are still the highest form of piston
powered propeller driven fighters... why just standing next to a Warbird
gives me goose bumps... racing one would be a dream come true...
The FAA rule about flying over a crowd is, and bear with me its been a few years since I've read the rule, the pilot cannot direct the energy of the aircraft directly at the crowd. It sure looks like they do fly over from behind here but, to be fair the planes might just be skirting the edge of the crowd, it's hard to estimate exact placement from the ground as fast as some of them move. I do know I have never seen one come straight towards the crowd and go over.
Nice to know. Not for the families of the deceased, but just in general.
I guess there was another crash in WV this weekend too. Looks like an old, relic 63yo plane had enough. The crowd was spared in this one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgrn
why don'y you do yourself a favor and put me on ignore
It's a tragedy but really people should be free to decide for themselves, we should be able to decide for ourselves to participate or not and attend or not. The only exception is local inhabitants for their sake just move the races.
I don't hold with the loss of life at the TT but wouldn't dream of imposing an ban on it, if you don't want to risk your life simple don't.
Spectators have a very different perspective, especially children that are taken to events like this who didn't have that chance to decide for themselves. And yes I know the parents are supposed to make those choices, but if your Dad (like mine) was a car racing nut, you went to watch a lot of car races. Saying no was not an option.
In the end I cannot see how they can make Targa type car road races and air races like this safe enough for spectators to hold them.
Particularly with Targa type road races there are LOTS of people involved that have no choice. An example is when your street is part of the course. I must admit as much as I am a huge car racing fan I would not be happy at all if my property was involved in any racing event. We have dedicated race tracks (that always struggle for income), just use them.
As for air races. I love the old planes but don't really get the point of racing a vintage plane, just like I don't agree with 10/10ths racing of vintage cars. But if they didn't race vintage planes they would still race piston powered planes ... so same end result.
I personally cannot see a future for air races and I feel for the seriously injured more than the dead. The dead are lost and it is incredibly sad for them and their families, but with an accident like this there must be some horrific injuries where I imagine some may well wish they had died .
Pete
__________________
'97 Suzuki GS500E - Sold 28000 km's later.
'90 Suzuki GN250 - Sold 57000 km's later. Cost less than 12c per km to run ...
Grumpy Kiwi.
Why fly when ya can make a lot of noise
Air Show crash in Reno
I don't see the allure of people saying "Hey, lets watch planes that were so good they were replaced 50 years ago fly over our heads!". I guess that's a sport for some people. Best of luck to them.
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