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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 916WI View Post
6 years, an insane amount of money, and the best racers of their time and that is all they could accomplish? You need to let it go--it's over. The bike is an antique at this stage in the game. Honda walked away from the platform over a decade ago practically dismissing it as a failure. It's almost as if you equate championships with individual races.....Just out of curiosity, concerning WSBK championships, what were the results when Honda pitted is RC45 up against Ducati's substandard V2?
YES!!! Honda's 6 year commitment to the V4 sparing no expense produce
those accomplishments by some of the best riders in the world...

The result between Ducati and Honda pushed both manufactures to new
levels of competition and they both raced their brains loose...


According to Milky Qualye the RC45 is not antique... it still feels modern today...


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94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jami6989 View Post
Thanks Jami for pointing that out.. it's true Performance Bike deemed the
RC45 a waste of money in 94 but they printed a retraction stating that
they were wrong in 2006...

__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
Have checked history???

Mr.Honda's V4s have been *their* most successful engine configuration in
WSBK... fact is the V2 is no longer a part of Honda's world racing plans
whereas the V4 is...

Honda WSBK wins by engine configuration...

V4 3
V2 2
I4 1

Sad , truly sad . You seem to think that Honda's retirement of the twin somehow mitigates or minimizes its stellar racing accomplishments , for a FRACTION of the '45's cost and in half the time . Indeed , the V4 is part of Honda's current racing plans ; so how is that working out for them ?!
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jami6989 View Post


I love it! I simply LOVE IT!
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
Thanks Jami for pointing that out.. it's true Performance Bike deemed the
RC45 a waste of money in 94 but they printed a retraction stating that
they were wrong in 2006...
From a top meeting at the bike rag:
"Uh hey guys, remember that article we did dissing the RC 45?" "Well, Honda won't give us bikes to test now." "Better print a retraction to that RC45 story we did to keep them happy".
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
Honda WSBK wins by engine configuration...

V4 3
V2 2
I4 1
Lets unspin these numbers:

WSBK wins by engine configuration:

V2: 15
I4: 4
v4: 3


Oh dear.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 04:49 PM
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or perhaps larry would like to compare GP results instead of WSBK

500/MotoGP results by engine configuration:
I4: 25
V4: 19
I3: 7
V5: 3
V3: 1
I2: 1
Single: 1


oh dear oh dear oh dear.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomo View Post
Sad , truly sad . You seem to think that Honda's retirement of the twin somehow mitigates or minimizes its stellar racing accomplishments , for a FRACTION of the '45's cost and in half the time . Indeed , the V4 is part of Honda's current racing plans ; so how is that working out for them ?!
I think the V2 is stellar only if you spot it some displacement... no
manufactures wanted to race a twin unless the rules don't allow some
size advantage and now even with the extra cubes most engineers
consider the V2 at the end of it's development stage thats why
Aprilia dropped the Big Bore and started racing a V4... Duacti is
going to do the same some day...

We now know Honda spent more on the V4 because they wanted to
develop it as an 4 stroke Gp racer... the RC51 only had to be as good
as WSBK and sell in the thousands at a cost that most street riders
could afford...

Quote Motorcycle International:

"Though I didn't know it at the time, a GP racer is exactly what the
RVF may yet become, following the decision to admit 750cc four-strokes
to the 500cc class for the 1991 GP season to bolster the two-thirds
empty grids. Wayne Gardner and Mick Doohan qualified the RVF four
stroke on pole on for last season's Suzuka endurance event in a time
of 2min 13.427sec, compared to Wayne Rainey's YZR500 pole for the
Japanese GP of 2min 09.589sec."


Quote MCI:

"Since Honda's approved achieving vital corporate goal has been
to import their works 500cc riders for a one-off four-stroke race,
it's not surprising that the RVF has been more and more modelled on
the NSR500 GP racer in chassis terms, while the V4 engine - based on
the RC30 for homologation purposes, but hyper-developed almost without
regard for cost - has come to resemble ever more closely a four-stroke
GP race motor."

Quote HRC boss Yoichi Oguma:

"Lately, Honda riders always complained about RVF feeling," said Osuma
san, ''but of course (they) only race a four-stroke just once a year,
in Suzuka Eight Hour. So, even though they began their careers racing
four-stroke bikes developed from street machines, now they are used to
500cc GP bikes. So, it's natural they ask us to make them an RVF racer
that feels like an NSR. For some years, we tried to produce a
compromise machine, but this year (1992) we gave into their wishes,
and made a 750cc four-stroke GP bike, just as they asked!" Or rather,
just as Mick Doohan asked. Beforehand Honda had consciously been
tailoring their RVF750 development to suit Wayne Gardner's
four-stroke-inherited tactics, but by last season he'd been supplanted
at the top of the Honda totem pole by Mick Doohan. That convinced HRC
to change the bike's design to Mick's quite different style. So in
1992, the year that Honda's Big-Bang NSR500 brought 170 bhp- plus
GP-winning performance within the mastery of the common man, thanks to
its user-friendly power delivery, the four-stroke RVF went clean in
the opposite direction. It's hard to convey in print just how
dramatically responsive the RVF is in every way to ride. It's a
nervous, taut, highly strung stallion of a motorcycle that at anything
above the fast 3,000 rpm idle is just raring to go, barely restrained
in its eagerness to be out there savouring the thrill of the chase.
Endurance racers - even factory bikes like the world title-winning
Kawasaki - have traditionally been long-legged mounts built to go the
distance; the Honda is a sprinter with the vital ingredient of
stamina. The ultra-trick, mega expensive, magnesium- body 40mm Keihin
flat-slide carbs are part of the equation, and are certainly largely
responsible for that arm-wrenching throttle response and the
light-switch power delivery which makes pulling wheelies in any of the
bottom three gears child's play. The RC30's big handicap, as I
discovered for myself when I raced a good kitted one in the Superbike
support race at the Dutch GP last season, is its lack of acceleration
out of turns compared to the Kawasakis and Ducatis. Yet Honda have
persuaded the same basic engine, in RVF form, to explode out of
corners with the venom of a 500cc GP bike."
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drthompson65 View Post


I love it! I simply LOVE IT!
Me too... if the RC45 wasn't though of as a waste of money... I would have
never found balls 2 down in Tijuana Mexico for 8K...

True Story...
Two Wheal Ordeal
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 10:59 PM
Busy Little Shop's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmo View Post
Lets unspin these numbers:

WSBK wins by engine configuration:

V2: 15
I4: 4
v4: 3


Oh dear.
YES!!! let's unspin the numbers...

750 V4s and I4s v 999 V2s (1988 to 2002)

V2 10
I4 1
V4 3

1000cc I4s and V2s there were no V4s racing (2003 to 2008)
V2 3
I4 2

1000cc I4s and V4s and V2s (2009)
V2 0
V4 0
I4 1 (Yamaha's "virtual V4")

Quote Mark Hoyer Editor in Chief Cycle World April 2010

"Yamaha took a revolutionary engine concert-the cross plane crank-and
built a bike unlike any other, combining the character of a V4 with
that if a I4."
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1

Last edited by Busy Little Shop; 03-09-2010 at 01:45 AM.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 11:15 PM
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This thread is so much better when you block Larry.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomo View Post
Indeed , the V4 is part of Honda's current racing plans ; so how is that working out for them ?!
Very well... oh wait, they are stuck firmly mid-pack.... OTOH, the new VFR is a nice platform for the V4.....
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 12:20 AM
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I wish I had the time to quote all the magazines and company executives to support my point of view. I give Larry credit for consistency and persistence. It's almost as if he has to continuously validate his own position. It's like Ducati owners thinking their SBK model is like the World Super Bike factory specials because they have SPS or R in the name. When in fact they have very little in common except the bare essentials dictated by the rules. And thankfully so, without factory support none of the race bikes would survive more than a couple thousand kilometers, if that.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezmo View Post
or perhaps larry would like to compare GP results instead of WSBK

500/MotoGP results by engine configuration:
I4: 25
V4: 19
I3: 7
V5: 3
V3: 1
I2: 1
Single: 1


oh dear oh dear oh dear.
No worries... read Gp history... the V4 replaced the I4 as the engine of
choice... and I predict the same will happen in MotoGp...

Quote Mat Oxley:
"V4s have,totally dominated GPsfor years,Winning every 500 round since
Assen'85. Why? Because that's how "formula" motorsport works. An
engineer comes up with something that really works within that formula
and, slowly but surely, everyone else has to follow."


Yamaha's trend in two stroke Gp racing was to start with the I4...
then the Square 4 and finally V4... I predict the same trend will
happen in the 4 stroke era in MotoGp... someday Yamaha will again
build a V4 for all of the same advantages over the I4...

Gp History shows us that certain design anomalies can cause engineers
to have a change of heart... case in point... Yamaha's first YZR500
two stroke was an I4 and it proved successful in the hands of Kenny
Roberts but Yamaha's next move was a YZR500 V4... ask the engineers
why the switch and they will undoubtable cite some of the same
advantages as Honda Ducati Suzuki Aprilia have cited in racing 4
strokes... namely: lower friction... narrower engine width... lighter
crankshaft... and sturdy cube block engine cases...

1978 YZR500 OW35 I4... fat no???


1982 YZR500 OW60N Square 4... narrow no???


1983 YZR500 OW61 V4... compact and narrow no???
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 01:32 AM
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That same logic applied to production based race bikes leaves only one conclusion. The I4 has become the engine configuration of choice over the V4. Whether the V4 dominates in the current Moto GP series remains to be seen.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc1036 View Post
That same logic applied to production based race bikes leaves only one conclusion. The I4 has become the engine configuration of choice over the V4. Whether the V4 dominates in the current Moto GP series remains to be seen.
True... the I4 has become the engine of choice because of low
production cost not because it's the best engine architecture you can
stuff in a frame... Aprilia's engineers have discovered that the V4 sports
the most advantages...








__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc1036 View Post
I wish I had the time to quote all the magazines and company executives to support my point of view. I give Larry credit for consistency and persistence.
Thank you... if I didn't have the magazines and company executives
support... I would be written off as delusional...
__________________
Larry L
94 RC45 #2
90 RC30 #44 sold
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10503451@N07/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/55532474@N00/?saved=1
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:28 AM
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And yet Yamaha have won the last two MotoGp titles and last year`s WSBK title with the "obsolete" I4. Also, world-class engine builder BMW chose the I4 for its new WSB contender after considering all the available options.... seems it may be the V4s days that are numbered (well, to anyone with any amount of objectivity....), unless you are counting the sport-touring segment of course
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop View Post
Thank you... if I didn't have the magazines and company executives
support... I would be written off as delusional...
what do you mean if??????? being supported by other delusional types is hardly proof of sanity, lol Hundreds, indeed thousands, of weirdos through history have found others to follow their weird, delusional ideas, lending proof that popularity is proof of nothing other than popularity.....
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikstr View Post
what do you mean if??????? being supported by other delusional types is hardly proof of sanity
Bro, he has a quote from Milky fukn Quayle? U know how prestigious that is in the m/c world? Milky Quayle bro!
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