I was always cautiously optimistic about this bike. I love Aprilia's but have always stayed away due to the lack of dealers. The RSV is a cool bike but it is becoming less of a real world bike with each new revelation. First the highest pricing esp. considering the Ducati's and now BMW more sensible premium brand pricing and larger dealer network. The already limited dealer backup is getting more scarce and now a potential engine issues. TBH I'm not surprised. This is afterall their first production superbike engine built in house. This was to be expected. The problem now is esp. in thyis economy that the RSV is starting to look like more of a Vdue (aka death kneel of Bimota) than a phoenix from the ashes 916 Aprilia needs.
I'm with mrgrn, Aprilia has no option but to address this. this bike, given its press, needs to be near flawless. Yes Ducati had issues in the past but with Ducati as successful and more price point effective as it is today and with all the I4 on such a higth level Aprilia can't afford issues. BMW's S1000RR entering the fray and trumping the RSV on many fronts (, dealer network, price, engine hp) doesn't help either.
I ruled out the RSV months ago in lieu of the S1000RR or 1098 this year or next. But now even used I would pass on the RSV because I would be concerned that a dealer won't be around to address a bad engine.
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Sour grapes are a lesser man's fruit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Little Shop The [fact] that the RC45 was a "relative failure" is what matters most...
This is afterall their first production superbike engine built in house.
I do believe that the second generation of RSV Mille engines were built in house. The first ones were built to Aprilia's design by Rotax, the second ones were designed and built by Aprilia.
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I was always cautiously optimistic about this bike. I love Aprilia's but have always stayed away due to the lack of dealers. The RSV is a cool bike but it is becoming less of a real world bike with each new revelation. First the highest pricing esp. considering the Ducati's and now BMW more sensible premium brand pricing and larger dealer network. The already limited dealer backup is getting more scarce and now a potential engine issues. TBH I'm not surprised. This is afterall their first production superbike engine built in house. This was to be expected. The problem now is esp. in thyis economy that the RSV is starting to look like more of a Vdue (aka death kneel of Bimota) than a phoenix from the ashes 916 Aprilia needs.
I'm with mrgrn, Aprilia has no option but to address this. this bike, given its press, needs to be near flawless. Yes Ducati had issues in the past but with Ducati as successful and more price point effective as it is today and with all the I4 on such a higth level Aprilia can't afford issues. BMW's S1000RR entering the fray and trumping the RSV on many fronts (, dealer network, price, engine hp) doesn't help either.
I ruled out the RSV months ago in lieu of the S1000RR or 1098 this year or next. But now even used I would pass on the RSV because I would be concerned that a dealer won't be around to address a bad engine.
more. the dealers are already floundering and some of them are going under as we apeak nevermind what this will do to the remaining ones. This could have been the bike to move them ahead but so far it looks like it might be the one to finish them off.
I was all behind the V4 effort but after the late release here, the low dynoe's and now this i can't help but say WTF?
Two or three dealerships catering to the wealthy won't keep the Brand alive here and who can afford to have their bike trailered 4 states away to get crappy service? i was going to buy one and have it sent too me but decided to not support that dealer and there is nobody worthwhile reasonable close too me to service the bike if a situation like this arose. I went to a local dealer and they have Snomobiles there and they ordered 1 tuono last year and it is still there
"Exercise restraint and discipline, only responding to posts from legit customers and those with constructive positive intent, you will find that the handgrenades explode harmlessly. You have many satisfied customers who are happy to have the parts you've made. My suggestion to you is keep making good parts, keep getting more customers, take care of them and let them speak for you."
Why not? Who is buying Can-ams, planes and snowmobiles in this economy. Any company can fail when they cater to leisure and luxury customers.
Can't argue with depressed sales of snowmobiles, etc. And I believe the main market for these is North America. Bombardier also makes street/subway systems which they sell worldwide. Not exactly a leisure product, at least not where I live.
But the economy will come back. Won't it? Its already started up here. Housing market has rebounded. Unemployment going down.
But I've gone way off topic. I'll guess that Aprilia will fix this problem and as predicted earlier, will have a successful bike on their hands.
A buddy of mine just bought the RSV4. He was a dedicated Ducatista previously. According to what he has said, Aprilia is doing all the right things in light of this unfortunate glitch. He was contacted by a rep immediately with specific instructions to get the bike back to the dealer at Aprilia's expense. He was also advised the replacement engines are enroute and should be ready for install within days, etc. So far he is very satisfied with their response and if it all comes out like it should, it will not change his mind about the bike, he thinks it is an amazing machine. In fact, I think he will likely be a more loyal customer if Aprilia gets this recall right. They are going after it quickly without denials because they probably know there are no other options in this climate, unlike manufacturers avoiding responsibility in the past. Rockers being the first thing that comes to my mind, I'm sure there were many other examples too.
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2003 HD FLHRI
2003 Ducati 999R #189
2009 Buell 1125CR (sold)
2007 Ducati 1100S MTS (sold)
2005 Honda 600RR (totalled)
2001 Ducati 900SS (sold)
1995 Ducati 916 (sold)
2004 Ducati 999S (sold)
2005 Honda 600RR (Oops, I did it again, this time in red/black - sold)
But the economy will come back. Won't it? Its already started up here. Housing market has rebounded. Unemployment going down.
But I've gone way off topic.
recovery? Canadas housing bubble is backed on cheap mortgages.... look at the housing prices over the past 10-15 yrs.... it's definately not a population boom or immigration boom that has created a surge in the demand and thus the price..... its simply making people who were previously renters now potential buyers by giving them mortgages they could previously never be signed for.... all simply because somebody decided to change the rules/qualifications for getting one
.... but yes way off topic.
on topic... IMO if this was honda they would have played stupid..... and finally offered you 50% discount on the labor...
regardless of what they could have done originally in design/sourcing etc or what might have been as a result is irrelavent to the issue at hand.... the situation is what it is and HOW they are handling it is the real issue
Epic fail! Funny how everyone was defending them when they grenaded on the dyno and now this bombshell is dropped.
+1
I'm gonna go with Jami on this one.
Epic Fail indeed.
NO bike should be spitting up on the dyno. NO BIKE. I knew that was a bad sign and called it from the very beginning. Now every Aprilia will hit the road in molested fashion. Not cool
I wonder what Ape is going to do with all of the recalled engines. If the engine has not failed and they know what the problem is, it would be no big deal to replace the defective conrods in the effected motors.....shame to crush them.
They'll show up running an irrigation water wheel in Guatemala.
They are going after it quickly without denials because they probably know there are no other options in this climate, unlike manufacturers avoiding responsibility in the past. Rockers being the first thing that comes to my mind, I'm sure there were many other examples too.
The great camshaft crisis in 84 about off killed enthusiasm for Honda's
V4s... as we now know every stop gap measure was tried in curing the
problem but the real culprit was Honda's short cut in machining steps
of the cam bearing blocks... they dropped the line bore step and
machined the cam bearing blocks separately... this resulted in mix
match of clearances... in short the cams flopped about... hard coat
damage soon followed...
Honda was typically silent for a long time and this led to all sorts of home
cures including better top oiling kits... shorten oil change intervals... larger
gapped valve clearances... auxiliary cooling fans kits... etc etc etc... but
none of these address the root cause... Only after Honda took a lot of stick
did they finally go back to the timely process of line boring the cam bearing
blocks on the head so the tolerances complimented each other...
NO bike should be spitting up on the dyno. NO BIKE. I knew that was a bad sign and called it from the very beginning. Now every Aprilia will hit the road in molested fashion. Not cool
Any engine with mis matched bearings will spit up on the dyno... I think you'll
find it's an assembly line problem and not a engineering problem...
The great camshaft crisis in 84 about off killed enthusiasm for Honda's
V4s... as we now know every stop gap measure was tried in curing the
problem but the real culprit was Honda's short cut in machining steps
of the cam bearing blocks... they dropped the line bore step and
machined the cam bearing blocks separately... this resulted in mix
match of clearances... in short the cams flopped about... hard coat
damage soon followed...
Honda was typically silent for a long time and this led to all sorts of home
cures including better top oiling kits... shorten oil change intervals... larger
gapped valve clearances... auxiliary cooling fans kits... etc etc etc... but
none of these address the root cause... Only after Honda took a lot of stick
did they finally go back to the timely process of line boring the cam bearing
blocks on the head so the tolerances complimented each other...
I can't tell you how many cam caps I sanded down on Magnas and Sabres to get the clearances down. Honda took the cheapo route and used indexing ball cutters to machine the cam bearings. They were mounted on an unusually ling quill that had way too much runout. Inspecting an engine I often found that the cam bearings had up to .020" of clearance. To get the noise down I finally set the bearing clearance at .001" and valve clearance at .002" Then they were quiet. Man that was a rough period for a few years and I swore off those expensive and overly complicated V4's.
Any engine with mis matched bearings will spit up on the dyno... I think you'll
find it's an assembly line problem and not a engineering problem...
Regardless of where the problem lies it is still an inconvenience to the buyer and should not have been an issue in the first place. It's called something like "Quality Control". hahahahahahahahahaha Aprilia is not new at making bikes.
Jeez, like having it be an assembly line problem would make it all better.
recovery? Canadas housing bubble is backed on cheap mortgages.... look at the housing prices over the past 10-15 yrs.... it's definately not a population boom or immigration boom that has created a surge in the demand and thus the price..... its simply making people who were previously renters now potential buyers by giving them mortgages they could previously never be signed for.... all simply because somebody decided to change the rules/qualifications for getting one
.... but yes way off topic.
on topic... IMO if this was honda they would have played stupid..... and finally offered you 50% discount on the labor...
regardless of what they could have done originally in design/sourcing etc or what might have been as a result is irrelavent to the issue at hand.... the situation is what it is and HOW they are handling it is the real issue
+1 I'm really impressed with how Aprilia is taking this on......They reacted exactly as they should have. Honda, Ducati, MV, etc. completely shit on their customers when it comes to this. Ducati with their rocker and melting wiring problems. Honda with it's oil drinking literbikes. I remember when they put out that $70K NSX flagship supercar in the early 90's--there was a transmission case that was improperly machined. They knew it, the customers knew it--Honda had the case numbers of exactly which transmissions were affected--they should have recalled every last one of them........
more. the dealers are already floundering and some of them are going under as we apeak nevermind what this will do to the remaining ones. This could have been the bike to move them ahead but so far it looks like it might be the one to finish them off.
but after the late release here, the low dynoe's and now this i can't help but say WTF? 
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