alright, alright, you got me, and you do make a valid point about keeping him busy here.... lol Just try to refrain from quoting him at least... pleeeeeeeeeeease
Larry, no the RC45/RC30 360 V4 is nothing like the 2-stroke big-bang V4, which fired multiple cylinders at the same time. On the other hand, any four-stroke is going to provide a much longer rest period, due to the 720 degree combustion cycle....
True the 4 stroke version of the Big Bang is nothing like the 2 stroke version but what I said was also true... it was
the 4 stroke version of the RVF750 Big Bang that born the NSR500 version of the Big Bang... requested by Doohan
himself...
Quote Max Oxley
"Developments of the 91 NSR 500 focused around Doohan testing a number
of designs as HRC shifted their main push behind the new up and
comer... For some while Doohan had been asking engineers to replicate
the wide power band characteristic of the RVF750 4 stroke endurance
bike, which he and Gardner had used to lead the previous summer's Suzuka 8 Hours."
HRC answer was the 2 stroke equivalent of the the 4 stroke Big Bang...
technically speaking all four cylinders fried within 70 degrees to afford the
tire more time to hook up...
Consider and instant success by Gardner "Jesus, this is amazing" but
Doohan was a doubter... the 92 NSR droning big bang had a very
flat exhaust note which made it sound slow to riders... It was only
during HRC's final preseason phase that Doohan began to believe in the
Big Bang... He found little difference in lap times but the close
firing order was easier on tires and set up...
Rainey and company were in for the shock as the season kicked off...
Utilizing the Big Bangs ability to find traction where others could
not... Doohan ran away with the first four races... winning by
anything up to 28 seconds wet or dry... The Big Bang proved such a
giant leap forward that rival factories Cagiva, Suzuki, Yamaha rushed
to build copies... having learned the NRS's secret by playing
track side audio recording against an oscilloscope...
There could be no doubt now... Honda now had the best 500 on the grid
by quite some margin... the big bang NRS proved to be a winner in a
variety of hands... Since the 80 when engine HP dramatically
outstripped tire and chassis performance... GP teams had been hiring
tail sliding dirt trackers form America and Australia because no one
else could wrestle these monsters into submission...
Negative......It wasn't a "dedicated V4" thread......It was a thread about the GP9 which morphed, once again, into a thread about the POS relic RC45......At least Ducati has an excuse as to why they haven't been dominating with their bike. It seems like whatever bike Rossi has been on has dominated. A DECADE AGO Honda had no excuse as to why the RC45 had it's ass completely handed to it in WSBK. Let's be honest--The WSBK championship was infinitely more desirable than the Isle of Mann TT "championship", no matter how you want to spin it) It had money, talent and engineering thrown at it.......The only thing it didn't have was performance, and results due to the lack of performance.........It didn't have the aura/beauty of the classic RC30 either. If someone could puke up stereotypical "1990's sportbike", the RC45 could definitely play the role of the vomit. What it comes down to is that a lowly twin, with a fraction of the operating budget beat the crap out of this V4 7 out of the 8 years they went head to head...........No amount of 10 year old edited quotes, wind resistance tan diagrams, or cherry picked aricles will change that........The bike was a failure. Sorry for the tangent, but I didn't take the oath. Now back to the discussion of the topic of the thread--the CURRENT Ducati GP9........
Because mikstr is a f*ckin WANKER! seriously mikstr you have a terminal case of Handus Kokolitus!
No problem, I have been called worse by better people Besides, given your affinity for the RC45, one has to question the validity of your judgments anyhow, lol
Negative......It wasn't a "dedicated V4" thread......It was a thread about the GP9 which morphed, once again, into a thread about the POS relic RC45......At least Ducati has an excuse as to why they haven't been dominating with their bike. It seems like whatever bike Rossi has been on has dominated. A DECADE AGO Honda had no excuse as to why the RC45 had it's ass completely handed to it in WSBK. Let's be honest--The WSBK championship was infinitely more desirable than the Isle of Mann TT "championship", no matter how you want to spin it) It had money, talent and engineering thrown at it.......The only thing it didn't have was performance, and results due to the lack of performance.........It didn't have the aura/beauty of the classic RC30 either. If someone could puke up stereotypical "1990's sportbike", the RC45 could definitely play the role of the vomit. What it comes down to is that a lowly twin, with a fraction of the operating budget beat the crap out of this V4 7 out of the 8 years they went head to head...........No amount of 10 year old edited quotes, wind resistance tan diagrams, or cherry picked aricles will change that........The bike was a failure. Sorry for the tangent, but I didn't take the oath. Now back to the discussion of the topic of the thread--the CURRENT Ducati GP9........
While my decision to honour my oath prevents me from partaking directly, I can, nonetheless, applaud this statement of fact
Negative......It wasn't a "dedicated V4" thread......It was a thread about the GP9 which morphed, once again, into a thread about the POS relic RC45......At least Ducati has an excuse as to why they haven't been dominating with their bike. It seems like whatever bike Rossi has been on has dominated. A DECADE AGO Honda had no excuse as to why the RC45 had it's ass completely handed to it in WSBK. Let's be honest--The WSBK championship was infinitely more desirable than the Isle of Mann TT "championship", no matter how you want to spin it) It had money, talent and engineering thrown at it.......The only thing it didn't have was performance, and results due to the lack of performance.........It didn't have the aura/beauty of the classic RC30 either. If someone could puke up stereotypical "1990's sportbike", the RC45 could definitely play the role of the vomit. What it comes down to is that a lowly twin, with a fraction of the operating budget beat the crap out of this V4 7 out of the 8 years they went head to head...........No amount of 10 year old edited quotes, wind resistance tan diagrams, or cherry picked aricles will change that........The bike was a failure. Sorry for the tangent, but I didn't take the oath. Now back to the discussion of the topic of the thread--the CURRENT Ducati GP9........
Yeah but a MAGAZINE called the '45 "the coolest," "magical," and "sublime."
Yes, the RC45 did lose its share of WSB races and titles. While it usually beat the other Big 4, it did lose to bikes with larger displacement and top riders, akin to the Buell rule although clearly not as lopsided. Honda did pretty well with their own V2 on "equal ground" to Ducati at least. While I'm not a total V4 nut, anyone who thinks the RC45 was an example of plain old 1990's superbike machinery either does not like Honda or was still sucking on a nipple in the 1990's. Stupid statements only make smart people sound stupid. Anyone who woulld not want to own or ride an RC30/RC45, R7, OWO1, 851, 888, 916, etc has likely not had the pleasure, does not have the cash, or whose wife won't let them own more bikes. Just my personal opinion/bias or maybe shows my old age of 37 years. For some a HP number is only a number and the thrill of riding is not dependent on whether the 18 year old with 12-20K can buy a new bike and ride faster to 170mph or into a tree faster than you. Mikstr spends more time on this forum goating or reponding to Larry than all other posts combined. Telling I think.
Well, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one and, as a citizen of a free country, you are allowed to express it. That being said, I have never discounted outright the RC45 (despite what you, or anyone, may believe) or any of the other homologation specials and would love to get the opportunity to ride one (if for no other reason than curiosity). The issue I have (and many others) is this all-encompassing "RC45 is the embodiment of perfection" and "all things V4 are heavenly" that permeates virtually every single one of Larry`s comments. Yes the RC did achieve a measure of success but it WAS NOT a game changer and anyone who says it is is clearly disconnected from the facts and race results that it generated over the six years it competed (I`ll not go over that argument again as the facts have been stated ad nauseum, and not just by myself). Perhaps it`s a personal flaw of mine, but I enjoy and value objectivity and try to re-establish it when I judge it to be missing. Have I overstepped the boundaries of good taste in attempting to do so? Regrettably, yes (and I take no pride in admitting it, feel quite silly and ashamed actually). I have, however, decided to ignore the source of the skewed content (in case you haven`t noticed, this individual holds steadfastly to his unidimensional line despite clear and irrefutable evidence showing otherwise) that, in my opinion, seriously impedes the level of discussion and information sharing that could otherwise take place here. My contributions, from now on, will be more objective and factual in nature as I am done trying to bring a zealot around to a more balanced view of history, as well as sportbike and engine design. With that in mind, you are entitled to read my comments or not, and do with them as you wish.
have...... to........ fight....... the.............urge.......... must.......not..... give.... in
Guess I should've added a to my post above . My countryman hadn't had his coffee yet ? Oh , and the RC-45 is an over-priced , over-hyped , underachieving , NON-big bang bike I'd love to own .
True the 4 stroke version of the Big Bang is nothing like the 2 stroke version but what I said was also true... it was
the 4 stroke version of the RVF750 Big Bang that born the NSR500 version of the Big Bang... requested by Doohan
himself...
Quote Max Oxley
"Developments of the 91 NSR 500 focused around Doohan testing a number
of designs as HRC shifted their main push behind the new up and
comer... For some while Doohan had been asking engineers to replicate
the wide power band characteristic of the RVF750 4 stroke endurance
bike, which he and Gardner had used to lead the previous summer's Suzuka 8 Hours."
HRC answer was the 2 stroke equivalent of the the 4 stroke Big Bang...
technically speaking all four cylinders fried within 70 degrees to afford the
tire more time to hook up...
Consider and instant success by Gardner "Jesus, this is amazing" but
Doohan was a doubter... the 92 NSR droning big bang had a very
flat exhaust note which made it sound slow to riders... It was only
during HRC's final preseason phase that Doohan began to believe in the
Big Bang... He found little difference in lap times but the close
firing order was easier on tires and set up...
Rainey and company were in for the shock as the season kicked off...
Utilizing the Big Bangs ability to find traction where others could
not... Doohan ran away with the first four races... winning by
anything up to 28 seconds wet or dry... The Big Bang proved such a
giant leap forward that rival factories Cagiva, Suzuki, Yamaha rushed
to build copies... having learned the NRS's secret by playing
track side audio recording against an oscilloscope...
There could be no doubt now... Honda now had the best 500 on the grid
by quite some margin... the big bang NRS proved to be a winner in a
variety of hands... Since the 80 when engine HP dramatically
outstripped tire and chassis performance... GP teams had been hiring
tail sliding dirt trackers form America and Australia because no one
else could wrestle these monsters into submission...
All true, Larry. Pity of course, that Honda switched back to the screamer again to go faster still, eh. Just shows...technology continues to advance. What is a major advance and performance enhancer one day, becomes just another successful but temporary advantage the next day, when it is supplanted by something better.
This, again, is the major difference between us. I look at what is winning now/recently, and acknowledge that advantage, which can and often is, minute in its overall difference, but enough to allow the rider/bike/tire package to get to the finish line first. That configuration changes and improves over time. What was a majro advantage and a winning configuraiton/design feature in the '90's or even last year, may no longer be relevant, due to other improvements, rules changes, market demand, etc.
I like the RC45 (not as much as the 30...but it's still a cool bike). I can relate to its obvious pedigree and design integrity. It's a special bike. I understand your enthusiasm, but I do think you're not always logical about the CURRENT merits of the bike against current machinery. Just my opinion.
I think I'm done with this now. My balls are getting itchy.
__________________ Old Baldy / WWBO #451
Ducati 996
Kawasaki KLR 650 '02
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Besides, given your affinity for the RC45, one has to question the validity of your judgments anyhow, lol
to my post above . My countryman hadn't had his coffee yet ? Oh , and the RC-45 is an over-priced , over-hyped , underachieving , NON-big bang bike I'd love to own .
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